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dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)

22. If Hillary clearly establishes that she has changed

Fri May 8, 2015, 02:07 AM

May 2015

and is ready to do everything in her power to reign in U.S. military corporate resource acquisition wars, that would mean a lot to me. I would need to see a real committment to it, a full mea-culpa, coming out the other side as a transformed person, as I believe happened with Byrd and his racism. If I could feel the reality of that in Hillary, that would be huge.

And the Byrd thread was about a remarkable speech he gave against a decision to wage an illegal and catastrophic war, which is undeniable, he put his whole soul into that, you could see it and feel it. I was never a fan of his before that, and really know little about him except that he is an apparently reformed racist who got it absolutely right on probably the most important issue in recent history. I watched that speech in real time when he gave it, it was amazing how he put everything he had into it, going against a very strong political tide to not ony state his conscience but in an attempt to stop it before it started. That is leadership, and I'd love to see that from Hillary.

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Clinton Supporters, You Have GOT To Check Out This Thread [View all] McCamy Taylor May 2015 OP

You really think you got a winner with that argument? nt Bonobo May 2015 #1

There's a first time for everything. n/t winter is coming May 2015 #2

I think you would have been better quoting Kennedy if your point was "Clinton cant change." McCamy Taylor May 2015 #3

Nope, not equivalent at all. nt Bonobo May 2015 #8

But, McCamy, watch this speech: JDPriestly May 2015 #37

You think your question reveals a flaw in the argument? pnwmom May 2015 #17

Honestly I do not because the false equivalence is so vast and the gulf in remorse so unbridgeable. Bonobo May 2015 #20

If we can't forgive and believe Byrd changed from the KKK and give him the benefit of roguevalley May 2015 #23

They are desperate. woo me with science May 2015 #30

Awesome post woo me with science. Thanks for collecting all this stuff in one place. Cheese Sandwich May 2015 #80

Actually, she does. Google "double standard." leftofcool May 2015 #53

After you google "the price of tea in China". nt Bonobo May 2015 #57

Whoever chose to use Byrd as an example to show up Hillary treestar May 2015 #82

Byrd's words and actions wrt the Iraqi War resolution are what matters... Bonobo May 2015 #84

to some it was "only a vote and it doesn't make a difference" neverforget May 2015 #91

Good grief. So amusing. merrily May 2015 #4

Bernie on the job defending the makers of Bushmaster XM15-E2S and Glock and you forgive this????? workinclasszero May 2015 #66

Comparing that to Iraq? merrily May 2015 #68

... NanceGreggs May 2015 #5

When she shows some genuine soul-searching growth from her part in that slaughter... Bonobo May 2015 #10

Political calculation?! Who? Hillary? Surely you're joking Mr. Feynman! InAbLuEsTaTe May 2015 #14

ALL politicians calculate MaggieD May 2015 #18

Yes, the propaganda has reached a point of trying to NORMALIZE monied corruption of the system. woo me with science May 2015 #33

Third way posts? MaggieD May 2015 #34

Yes, but Bernie doesn't "calculate" by pulling a 180 everytime the "political wind" starts to blow in the other direction. That's the difference with Bernie...WYSIWYG InAbLuEsTaTe May 2015 #59

And reducing it to just the Iraq vote. That was bad enough to be sure, all by itself. But it all the sabrina 1 May 2015 #86

Keep insulting Democrats BainsBane May 2015 #62

How come sometimes you say DU has NO influence on the broader world but Bonobo May 2015 #85

It's quite ironic - that's for sure MaggieD May 2015 #6

if you can't forgive on and allow growth, you can't forgive the other. simple as that. roguevalley May 2015 #24

Meh, a few lynchings, give or take BainsBane May 2015 #7

"We can never forgive a woman who voted 13 years ago to authorize a war!" beevul May 2015 #9

but she voted for war... smiley May 2015 #81

What's that word? yallerdawg May 2015 #11

Yea, but if you said it, it would just get poo pooed by the Bernie crowd. leftofcool May 2015 #55

Octopi can also change their spots to blend in with their surroundings, unlike leopards. InAbLuEsTaTe May 2015 #12

Since HRC represented NY, she should be supporting the people of NY. Thinkingabout May 2015 #13

+10000000 MaggieD May 2015 #15

So it's their fault they didn't hold Bush accountable? They neverforget May 2015 #39

WTH are you talking about? Do you think for one second a GOP Congress was going to hold Bush Thinkingabout May 2015 #61

So they're blameless for their vote? Powerless to enforce their own laws or votes? neverforget May 2015 #63

She has addressed the vote, now are you willing to address the bill passed and understand it was Thinkingabout May 2015 #65

Well no shit it's Bush's fault. Do you see me blaming Hillary for Bush's decision? No. She voted neverforget May 2015 #67

As your Congressman stated: Thinkingabout May 2015 #69

So Hillary has no responsibility for her vote? neverforget May 2015 #70

I thought we had already discussed this but if we dod not her statement was Thinkingabout May 2015 #72

Well she is the one running for President now so she is going to get called out on it. It's neverforget May 2015 #73

I thought I had heard Bernie was running for president and his record will also be examined Thinkingabout May 2015 #74

And that's why you don't think about much: we're talking about Hillary. Not Bernie. neverforget May 2015 #75

I did not realize GD was restricted to talking about only Hillary. But thanks for Thinkingabout May 2015 #77

You can change the subject all you want if you don't want to talk about Hillary. I understand neverforget May 2015 #79

As I saw in another thread today, it waa only a vote and it doesn't make any difference. Thinkingabout May 2015 #83

Wow! Really???? That's a pretty cavalier attitude to the men and women who were killed in neverforget May 2015 #87

I thought it was also. Thinkingabout May 2015 #88

Yeah that's why you repeated that disgusting attitude. neverforget May 2015 #89

That's the correct history, not the revisionist one where they get to blame her and others stevenleser May 2015 #90

Revisionist? about what? She voted for the IWR neverforget May 2015 #94

As I have said many times here that doesn't work stevenleser May 2015 #95

The UN did it so it's okay! How many UN troops went to Iraq under the UN flag? neverforget May 2015 #96

Just the opposite. It is you who want to condemn one group but not the other and stevenleser May 2015 #97

Give me an f'ing break. Admit to what? That Clinton voted for IWR and was wrong neverforget May 2015 #98

I have multiple links backing up my story and you have nothing. stevenleser May 2015 #99

Uh huh. Don't quit your day job neverforget May 2015 #100

Politics is my day job. You might want to look into actually researching the facts stevenleser May 2015 #101

I just read her speech.....AGAIN. neverforget May 2015 #102

Fact is it worked for the intended result. The UN weapons inspection teams were let in stevenleser May 2015 #103

Lol. it sure did as the authorization for war worked too. neverforget May 2015 #104

No, that was not the intent and that's obvious from the wording and its also stevenleser May 2015 #105

Bush is responsible for the war. But I get can't over the fact that those who voted for the IWR neverforget May 2015 #106

Any Obama fans? yallerdawg May 2015 #16

Let 'em vote for Rand. He's only for bombing Israel's neighbors and going back into Iraq. Our hero! freshwest May 2015 #19

Senator Byrd was not defined by a single vote. MelungeonWoman May 2015 #21

Tell us which votes MaggieD May 2015 #35

If Hillary clearly establishes that she has changed dreamnightwind May 2015 #22

You are so eloquent and that is precisely, precisely how I feel. Bonobo May 2015 #25

Not sure that she hasn't in some way indicated she regrets her vote dreamnightwind May 2015 #28

DUers conveniently forget they voted for a president who has perpertuated war for the last 6 yrs nt msongs May 2015 #26

Exactly. He just didn't ask for congressional approval. RiverLover May 2015 #47

Wouldn't support Byrd for presidency. Sorry. Scootaloo May 2015 #27

Yeah, he's out of the running for me too. nt Bonobo May 2015 #29

Wouldn't HAVE supported him, then Scootaloo May 2015 #31

Oh. Yeah, me too. Bonobo May 2015 #32

yeah, not quite sure of the argument being made Scootaloo May 2015 #42

Ha ha ha ha. So funny! nt Bonobo May 2015 #43

"pretty sure citizenship lapses after death." Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #36

McCamy, may I quote your journal entry on this subject (The Iraq War)? Bonobo May 2015 #38

amazing how it's our fault we didn't stop them but those in Congress neverforget May 2015 #40

Yup, it's all on us. Bonobo May 2015 #41

False Equivalency Fail! TM99 May 2015 #44

Yes, but even more of a logic fail... Bonobo May 2015 #46

Oh, I definitely agree. TM99 May 2015 #48

I said the same in #20, but yes, it's comparing apples to apple orchards. nt Bonobo May 2015 #49

How about her listening to Teddy Kennedy or Pat Leahy? Gonna try to slam either of them? cali May 2015 #45

Her vote on the Iraq War Resolution isn't really the problem Motown_Johnny May 2015 #50

I don't want my next President following any KKKers advice, thank you. leftofcool May 2015 #51

Wow. TM99 May 2015 #56

Well she did consider Byrd a �friend and mentor�. n/t PoliticAverse May 2015 #78

This is a good observation and well stated. leftofcool May 2015 #52

it's not just that one vote. it's a decades long tendency toward being an armchair warhawk magical thyme May 2015 #54

... 99Forever May 2015 #58

HRC's Iraq vote.. sendero May 2015 #60

This message was self-deleted by its author frylock May 2015 #64

That sure is a lot of mind reading and projecting you got going there! Rex May 2015 #71

Irony abounds. ucrdem May 2015 #76

On other words, for Hillary, political calculation was more important. Bonobo May 2015 #92

I don't need to see her to ritually disembowel herself, no, ucrdem May 2015 #93