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neverforget

(9,516 posts)
67. Well no shit it's Bush's fault. Do you see me blaming Hillary for Bush's decision? No. She voted
Fri May 8, 2015, 03:05 PM
May 2015

to give him authority that's her problem. She took him at his word.

Here's my Senator Wyden (D-OR) who sat on the Senate Intelligence Committee at the time and still does. He figured it out. Why didn't Senator Clinton?

Madam President, I hold the Senate seat of the late Wayne Morse. Senator Morse lost his job in 1968, and many have attributed his loss to his outspoken opposition to the Vietnam war. Wayne Morse's election loss makes his words from that era no less true today.

In a 1966 debate on the role of the Senate with respect to the great issues of war and peace, Senator Wayne Morse said:

This is what the United States Senate is for. It is what the Founding Fathers created the Senate to do--take the long-range view of actions prompted in national councils that may be warped by some strong passion or momentary interest.

It is the long-term interest of our country, Madam President, that Wayne Morse so presciently focused on in 1966 that leads me to outline the following conclusion that I have made with respect to the Iraq resolution.

Saddam Hussein is the bad actor here and the United States of America is the good actor. I believe the authorization of a unilateral preemptive military attack based on the information now available will cause much of the world, unfortunately, to lose sight of this reality. This perception in a region racked by poverty and already marked by a deep mistrust in American foreign policy could foster decades, possibly even centuries of undeserved hatred of our great Nation that will threaten our children and our grandchildren.

Protecting our children and grandchildren after a unilateral preemptive attack on Iraq will require a staggering financial commitment from our National Government. Given the pressing financial needs here at home for public safety, for education, for health, where are the funds going to come from after our Nation wins such an engagement with Iraq ?

Protecting our children and grandchildren after a unilateral preemptive attack on Iraq will require an American policy of energy independence--especially independence from Middle East oil. We are a long way from there, and on some issues, such as saving energy and the crucial transportation sector, it seems that now we have been going backward.

Protecting our children and grandchildren after a unilateral preemptive attack on Iraq will require a plan for rebuilding confidence among many of the countries that stood with us during the gulf war conflict, but do not stand with us today. Many of those countries do not believe diplomatic and other steps have been fully exhausted. If our Government cannot convince them of that, it is certainly going to be tough to restore faith after a unilateral, preemptive attack.

For many weeks now, I have waited and listened patiently, I feel, for the administration to make its case for the resolution. I serve on the Senate Intelligence Committee. I followed this issue very closely, and I believe neither partisan politics nor the pressures of an anxious public should be factored into a decision of this magnitude.

Instead, I see my duty as an elected representative of the great State of Oregon to listen, to inquire dispassionately, and make the decision I believe to be in the best interest of Oregon and this great country, and leave the judgment to history and the voters as to whether I made that judgment in the right way.

In approaching the decision about whether to vote to authorize the military option this measure calls for, I laid out some criteria on which to base my decision.

My criteria were: If our security agencies were to provide me with compelling evidence of a significant threat to our domestic security if Hussein's Iraq is not defeated militarily, I would be willing to grant authority for the use of force. But I am unwilling to give my approval for a first-strike, unilateral attack until and unless there is assurance under the resolution that before such an attack, the administration exhausted all other reasonable means to accomplish our goals.

Second, I am convinced it is essential to have a workable plan to contain the situation if Iraq attacks Israel and Israel enters the conflict.

And third, I am concerned there has to be a showing such an attack will not make our Nation less safe by setting us back in the war on terrorism.

The President has made a compelling case--I believe a sincere one--regarding the danger posed by Iraq under the rule of Saddam Hussein, but his argument--and I say respectfully--does not meet the criteria I have laid out.

First, I am not convinced, regarding a clear and present threat, Saddam Hussein currently imposes a clear and present threat to the domestic security of the Nation. While my service on the Senate Intelligence Committee has left me convinced of Iraq's support of terrorism, suspicious of its ties to al-Qaida, I have seen no evidence, acts, or involvement in the planning or execution of the vicious attacks of 9/11.

While Iraq has aided terrorism for many years, there are any number of regimes who have aided terrorism, including some with far more direct links to Osama bin Laden's network of terror. In this regard, I note the first conclusion in the Central Intelligence Agency's declassified letter to Chairman Bob Graham of Florida dated October 7 of this year which states that at present, Iraq does not appear to be planning or sponsoring terrorism aimed at the United States.

Yet, had the administration met this threshold test, in my view, it has still not met the rest of what I consider to be prudent criteria. While the President has stated his desire to seek alternative means to accomplish his goals before beginning a military strike, to grant the President the authority to conduct a first-strike war before first witnessing the exhaustion of those efforts is to abdicate the obligations of this body in its most sacred role. The Founding Fathers surely envisaged a more challenging inquiry when granting the Congress the responsibility of authorizing armed conflict.

On my second point, while I am not privy to the administration's war plans, I am of the belief the administration is satisfactorily preparing for a potential enlargement of the conflict with Israel or other allies. I am concerned this issue has not been adequately addressed.

I do believe the administration needs to outline in further detail how they would address issues with respect to the enlargement of the conflict, and I want to make clear I do not believe that point has been addressed clearly and fully to date. The possibility this conflict would be enlarged with an attack on Iraq to one that involves Israel is one I think needs to be laid out and laid out clearly.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly for my purposes, I reached the conclusion that pursuit of a first-strike war, absent any credible sign Saddam Hussein is preparing to wage war against our Nation or other nations, will leave this Nation less secure than before. I believe we have to look at greater length at these key questions, and I do not believe that has been done to date.

It is the sacred duty of the Senate to focus and act upon the long-term interests of our beloved Nation. Saddam Hussein is an extremely dangerous and extremely despicable man. Time and again, he has demonstrated that to his enemies, as well as his own people. He lives in a part of the world where there is no shortage of dangerous and despicable men who pose a threat to the security of the United States. In my service on the Senate Intelligence Committee, I have not seen satisfactory evidence he is any more despicable than the threat presented by Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran.

In summary, those are the central questions. Making sure we have exhausted all of the diplomatic opportunities before one considers a first strike, making sure we are ready to deal with the region after a first strike and one that, in my judgment, we are clearly going to win, the unanswered questions of what happens when there is an attack on Iraq and the possibility of enlarging the conflict to Israel--these questions have not been addressed, and they have not been addressed fully.

There is no question in my mind Saddam Hussein represents a very real threat to this country and to the world, but I do not want to, in the days ahead, compound the problems we already face with Hussein in the region by authorizing a unilateral, preemptive military strike at this time, and that is why I will oppose the resolution.

Madam President, I yield the floor.


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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

You really think you got a winner with that argument? nt Bonobo May 2015 #1
There's a first time for everything. n/t winter is coming May 2015 #2
I think you would have been better quoting Kennedy if your point was "Clinton cant change." McCamy Taylor May 2015 #3
Nope, not equivalent at all. nt Bonobo May 2015 #8
But, McCamy, watch this speech: JDPriestly May 2015 #37
You think your question reveals a flaw in the argument? pnwmom May 2015 #17
Honestly I do not because the false equivalence is so vast and the gulf in remorse so unbridgeable. Bonobo May 2015 #20
If we can't forgive and believe Byrd changed from the KKK and give him the benefit of roguevalley May 2015 #23
They are desperate. woo me with science May 2015 #30
Awesome post woo me with science. Thanks for collecting all this stuff in one place. Cheese Sandwich May 2015 #80
Actually, she does. Google "double standard." leftofcool May 2015 #53
After you google "the price of tea in China". nt Bonobo May 2015 #57
Whoever chose to use Byrd as an example to show up Hillary treestar May 2015 #82
Byrd's words and actions wrt the Iraqi War resolution are what matters... Bonobo May 2015 #84
to some it was "only a vote and it doesn't make a difference" neverforget May 2015 #91
Good grief. So amusing. merrily May 2015 #4
Bernie on the job defending the makers of Bushmaster XM15-E2S and Glock and you forgive this????? workinclasszero May 2015 #66
Comparing that to Iraq? merrily May 2015 #68
... NanceGreggs May 2015 #5
When she shows some genuine soul-searching growth from her part in that slaughter... Bonobo May 2015 #10
Political calculation?! Who? Hillary? Surely you're joking Mr. Feynman! InAbLuEsTaTe May 2015 #14
ALL politicians calculate MaggieD May 2015 #18
Yes, the propaganda has reached a point of trying to NORMALIZE monied corruption of the system. woo me with science May 2015 #33
Third way posts? MaggieD May 2015 #34
Yes, but Bernie doesn't "calculate" by pulling a 180 everytime the "political wind" starts to blow in the other direction. That's the difference with Bernie...WYSIWYG InAbLuEsTaTe May 2015 #59
And reducing it to just the Iraq vote. That was bad enough to be sure, all by itself. But it all the sabrina 1 May 2015 #86
Keep insulting Democrats BainsBane May 2015 #62
How come sometimes you say DU has NO influence on the broader world but Bonobo May 2015 #85
It's quite ironic - that's for sure MaggieD May 2015 #6
if you can't forgive on and allow growth, you can't forgive the other. simple as that. roguevalley May 2015 #24
Meh, a few lynchings, give or take BainsBane May 2015 #7
"We can never forgive a woman who voted 13 years ago to authorize a war!" beevul May 2015 #9
but she voted for war... smiley May 2015 #81
What's that word? yallerdawg May 2015 #11
Yea, but if you said it, it would just get poo pooed by the Bernie crowd. leftofcool May 2015 #55
Octopi can also change their spots to blend in with their surroundings, unlike leopards. InAbLuEsTaTe May 2015 #12
Since HRC represented NY, she should be supporting the people of NY. Thinkingabout May 2015 #13
+10000000 MaggieD May 2015 #15
So it's their fault they didn't hold Bush accountable? They neverforget May 2015 #39
WTH are you talking about? Do you think for one second a GOP Congress was going to hold Bush Thinkingabout May 2015 #61
So they're blameless for their vote? Powerless to enforce their own laws or votes? neverforget May 2015 #63
She has addressed the vote, now are you willing to address the bill passed and understand it was Thinkingabout May 2015 #65
Well no shit it's Bush's fault. Do you see me blaming Hillary for Bush's decision? No. She voted neverforget May 2015 #67
As your Congressman stated: Thinkingabout May 2015 #69
So Hillary has no responsibility for her vote? neverforget May 2015 #70
I thought we had already discussed this but if we dod not her statement was Thinkingabout May 2015 #72
Well she is the one running for President now so she is going to get called out on it. It's neverforget May 2015 #73
I thought I had heard Bernie was running for president and his record will also be examined Thinkingabout May 2015 #74
And that's why you don't think about much: we're talking about Hillary. Not Bernie. neverforget May 2015 #75
I did not realize GD was restricted to talking about only Hillary. But thanks for Thinkingabout May 2015 #77
You can change the subject all you want if you don't want to talk about Hillary. I understand neverforget May 2015 #79
As I saw in another thread today, it waa only a vote and it doesn't make any difference. Thinkingabout May 2015 #83
Wow! Really???? That's a pretty cavalier attitude to the men and women who were killed in neverforget May 2015 #87
I thought it was also. Thinkingabout May 2015 #88
Yeah that's why you repeated that disgusting attitude. neverforget May 2015 #89
That's the correct history, not the revisionist one where they get to blame her and others stevenleser May 2015 #90
Revisionist? about what? She voted for the IWR neverforget May 2015 #94
As I have said many times here that doesn't work stevenleser May 2015 #95
The UN did it so it's okay! How many UN troops went to Iraq under the UN flag? neverforget May 2015 #96
Just the opposite. It is you who want to condemn one group but not the other and stevenleser May 2015 #97
Give me an f'ing break. Admit to what? That Clinton voted for IWR and was wrong neverforget May 2015 #98
I have multiple links backing up my story and you have nothing. stevenleser May 2015 #99
Uh huh. Don't quit your day job neverforget May 2015 #100
Politics is my day job. You might want to look into actually researching the facts stevenleser May 2015 #101
I just read her speech.....AGAIN. neverforget May 2015 #102
Fact is it worked for the intended result. The UN weapons inspection teams were let in stevenleser May 2015 #103
Lol. it sure did as the authorization for war worked too. neverforget May 2015 #104
No, that was not the intent and that's obvious from the wording and its also stevenleser May 2015 #105
Bush is responsible for the war. But I get can't over the fact that those who voted for the IWR neverforget May 2015 #106
Any Obama fans? yallerdawg May 2015 #16
Let 'em vote for Rand. He's only for bombing Israel's neighbors and going back into Iraq. Our hero! freshwest May 2015 #19
Senator Byrd was not defined by a single vote. MelungeonWoman May 2015 #21
Tell us which votes MaggieD May 2015 #35
If Hillary clearly establishes that she has changed dreamnightwind May 2015 #22
You are so eloquent and that is precisely, precisely how I feel. Bonobo May 2015 #25
Not sure that she hasn't in some way indicated she regrets her vote dreamnightwind May 2015 #28
DUers conveniently forget they voted for a president who has perpertuated war for the last 6 yrs nt msongs May 2015 #26
Exactly. He just didn't ask for congressional approval. RiverLover May 2015 #47
Wouldn't support Byrd for presidency. Sorry. Scootaloo May 2015 #27
Yeah, he's out of the running for me too. nt Bonobo May 2015 #29
Wouldn't HAVE supported him, then Scootaloo May 2015 #31
Oh. Yeah, me too. Bonobo May 2015 #32
yeah, not quite sure of the argument being made Scootaloo May 2015 #42
Ha ha ha ha. So funny! nt Bonobo May 2015 #43
"pretty sure citizenship lapses after death." Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #36
McCamy, may I quote your journal entry on this subject (The Iraq War)? Bonobo May 2015 #38
amazing how it's our fault we didn't stop them but those in Congress neverforget May 2015 #40
Yup, it's all on us. Bonobo May 2015 #41
False Equivalency Fail! TM99 May 2015 #44
Yes, but even more of a logic fail... Bonobo May 2015 #46
Oh, I definitely agree. TM99 May 2015 #48
I said the same in #20, but yes, it's comparing apples to apple orchards. nt Bonobo May 2015 #49
How about her listening to Teddy Kennedy or Pat Leahy? Gonna try to slam either of them? cali May 2015 #45
Her vote on the Iraq War Resolution isn't really the problem Motown_Johnny May 2015 #50
I don't want my next President following any KKKers advice, thank you. leftofcool May 2015 #51
Wow. TM99 May 2015 #56
Well she did consider Byrd a “friend and mentor”. n/t PoliticAverse May 2015 #78
This is a good observation and well stated. leftofcool May 2015 #52
it's not just that one vote. it's a decades long tendency toward being an armchair warhawk magical thyme May 2015 #54
... 99Forever May 2015 #58
HRC's Iraq vote.. sendero May 2015 #60
This message was self-deleted by its author frylock May 2015 #64
That sure is a lot of mind reading and projecting you got going there! Rex May 2015 #71
Irony abounds. ucrdem May 2015 #76
On other words, for Hillary, political calculation was more important. Bonobo May 2015 #92
I don't need to see her to ritually disembowel herself, no, ucrdem May 2015 #93
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