General Discussion

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)

115. When referring to countries

Sat May 9, 2015, 01:23 PM

May 2015

one refers to them in various ways. They are essentially huge associations of diverse people. When referring to trade treaties one should always ask who benefits? With the TTP as with NAFTA it is promised that everyone in the countries involved will benefit. it is debatable if that happened with NAFTA. What is not debatable is that those with the resources to invest in global finance benefited greatly. It is also arguable that they did so to the detriment of American labor. Regardless, Obama's team is up to a lot more than just tightening the rules. When foreign investors sue and win cases under these agreements, the taxpayers foot the bill. If foreign investment shies away from a country because it has good labor standards and environmental laws, so be it. I am very much not into making the world safe for global capital until it is also safe for global labor and the biosphere.

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America is about to make a horrible mistake all over again [View all] RiverLover May 2015 OP

Does this sound familiar? Deja Vu is headed our way... RiverLover May 2015 #1

Because if our deomcratic sulphurdunn May 2015 #42

Boom. You nailed it! GoneFishin May 2015 #55

Clinton gave us the Digital Millennium Copyright Act hifiguy May 2015 #120

Because we have no true Labor Party ... Fantastic Anarchist May 2015 #78

HUGE K&R Never forget that NEOLIBERALS are pushing this shit on workers scam. 99Forever May 2015 #2

Correct. And I believe that is how you get backlash votes like the TBF May 2015 #22

ding ding ding! RiverLover May 2015 #53

+1 BrotherIvan May 2015 #56

Absolutely Exactly. nt Fantastic Anarchist May 2015 #79

Well NAFTA was literally a Republican deal, originated, negotiated and signed by George Bush Bluenorthwest May 2015 #3

Why did Clinton "walk through" a republican deal? He sold it to Americans! Myself included. RiverLover May 2015 #5

Bill kept NAFTA because he was wrong. Why did the author of this piece leave Bush out of the NAFTA Bluenorthwest May 2015 #10

LOL I agree: RiverLover May 2015 #13

I suspect ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #40

Who cares where it came from? Fantastic Anarchist May 2015 #80

Good post Dem2 May 2015 #52

Apparently you missed the point of the OP. nm rhett o rick May 2015 #74

The reason that Bush wasn't mentioned is a distraction from the point of the OP. rhett o rick May 2015 #69

I have a friend that does this. Maedhros May 2015 #71

There is no reason to edit out Bush - TBF May 2015 #25

Bubba did more than sign it. merrily May 2015 #28

You would think sulphurdunn May 2015 #47

Nice synopsis from sulpherdunn the question is... sorechasm May 2015 #96

+1! Warren gave good ex of this, a French company that sued Egypt because Egypt raised its minimum RiverLover May 2015 #97

Well, you kind of miss one important point -- the state can sue the corporation in their own courts. Hoyt May 2015 #112

There have been twice sulphurdunn May 2015 #113

Can you point to one case where the corporation won on raising minimum wage, anti-smoking campaigns? Hoyt May 2015 #114

When referring to countries sulphurdunn May 2015 #115

Hopefully, you looked for examples and have learned there aren't many. Hoyt May 2015 #116

Corporations are not altruistic. sulphurdunn May 2015 #117

+1000 nt. polly7 May 2015 #118

He did. cheapdate May 2015 #54

Plus Clinton's VP, our beloved Al Gore, made the case for it in a debate RufusTFirefly May 2015 #62

Definitely Poppy's brain child. On the other hand Bubba did a lot more than merely walk it through. merrily May 2015 #30

I'll bet many of us mocked Ross Perot and his "giant sucking sound," though. J/S. WinkyDink May 2015 #4

Not me. I didn't vote for Perot, but whatever else you may have thought of him, maddiemom May 2015 #6

I did vote for him kacekwl May 2015 #8

Me too. I was pretty young. He made a lot of sense. I went with it. Ed Suspicious May 2015 #17

Same, I knew these bastards were waiting like a spider in a web to ship high-paying jobs elsewhere. BlueJazz May 2015 #19

No regrets for me at all voting for Perot. He was far from ideal I understand that also. Person 2713 May 2015 #31

So did I Mojorabbit May 2015 #48

I almost voted for him, but when he dropped out davidpdx May 2015 #88

I remember how Perot was mocked for his charts and graphs. Maedhros May 2015 #72

Yep RiverLover May 2015 #7

As kooky as that guy seemed, he did make sense sometimes. HappyMe May 2015 #11

Right? He came across as a dweeb, really a shame. The message got lost in the messenger. nt RiverLover May 2015 #12

I kind of liked the dweeb type thing though. HappyMe May 2015 #14

I would like that now that I'm older & wiser. lol RiverLover May 2015 #16

And some of his message ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #41

Whew! Doc Holliday May 2015 #51

That's not even "20/20 hindsight" ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #59

I voted for him as well Punx May 2015 #27

My Favorite Wingnut uses that phrase all the time in attacking Clinton. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #35

Wall Street Wins. Octafish May 2015 #9

Its getting old. Really old. We're the perpetual Bad News Bears, always losing to corporations RiverLover May 2015 #15

I agree. HappyMe May 2015 #23

Fight the future! yallerdawg May 2015 #18

this is NOT the only template for trade. cali May 2015 #20

Thanks for the view from the US Chamber of Commerce. nt Romulox May 2015 #21

It's beyond laughable... sendero May 2015 #29

So it's failed every previous time, but this time it'll work! jeff47 May 2015 #37

Healthcare reform failed every previous time (for the last 50 years), too ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #43

If that were true, we'd also have seen leaks of the "good" parts of the TPP. jeff47 May 2015 #45

Why would you assume that? ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #49

Because there's no reason to not believe it. jeff47 May 2015 #50

Wait ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #73

History did not start yesterday. jeff47 May 2015 #119

Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #121

Failing to pass proposals and actually passing failures is a nonsensical comparison TheKentuckian May 2015 #76

Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #82

Health Insurance reform you mean. TM99 May 2015 #94

Truth!!^^^ RiverLover May 2015 #95

See post #100 for reality. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #101

Actually, I meant "healthcare financing reform" ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #100

I love it when advocates of single payer attack ACA as "just insurance reform"... Recursion May 2015 #106

Universal health care or medicare for all TM99 May 2015 #107

Umm... Medicare is "insurance". You do realize that, right? Recursion May 2015 #108

I know exactly what it is TM99 May 2015 #109

Apparently you don't, since you mentioned Europe. I don't think any European country Recursion May 2015 #110

I don't see the parallels Bradical79 May 2015 #99

The parallel is ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #103

"Health Care Reform" failed this time too - bread_and_roses May 2015 #104

See Post 100 ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #105

LOL, nice try! nt Logical May 2015 #65

We're making progress on getting the facts out. yallerdawg May 2015 #66

"What massive trade agreement do we have with China?" It's called PNTR. hedda_foil May 2015 #90

So you are telling me... yallerdawg May 2015 #91

No, every country we trade with does not get onto status. It's what used to be called most favored hedda_foil May 2015 #92

They moved to Mexico for a year or two... kentuck May 2015 #24

And the resultant crash of the Mexican economy, combined with Jackpine Radical May 2015 #36

So without NAFTA, "they" would have stayed in the US for another "year or two" and then "moved pampango May 2015 #75

Kick and R. BeanMusical May 2015 #26

HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT May 2015 #32

No, America's Leadership is About fredamae May 2015 #33

The ones putting this shit in place do not care about the working classes Marrah_G May 2015 #34

According the CEO types in this country Americans don't WANT manufacturing jobs.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #38

Not a mistake RoccoR5955 May 2015 #39

NAFTA worked exactly as intended. Maybe even better than intended. pa28 May 2015 #70

Really interesting post, pa28 RiverLover May 2015 #83

THIS^^^^^^^ SomeGuyInEagan May 2015 #123

K&R! Phlem May 2015 #44

The hits to the working and middle classes just keep on coming.... blackspade May 2015 #46

Raise your hand if you think this makes her extremely vulnerable in the general BrotherIvan May 2015 #57

It was a huge reason many supported Obama instead in 2008 - TBF May 2015 #58

Zactly BrotherIvan May 2015 #60

If a (D) signs it Puzzledtraveller May 2015 #61

I really don't like the tone of the article . . FairWinds May 2015 #63

You make good points - TBF May 2015 #64

Exactly! nikto May 2015 #77

Here's some international action ag TPP...if only we could coordinate! RiverLover May 2015 #84

point well taken ibegurpard May 2015 #87

I say NAFTA.... awoke_in_2003 May 2015 #67

Not a mistake. NAFTA did exactly what it was supposed to and what was expected. pa28 May 2015 #68

I believe Obama believes the TPP will do good for "us". jomin41 May 2015 #81

he believes no such thing Skittles May 2015 #86

Every president must leave office, but not before setting in motion the means to fuck over whereisjustice May 2015 #85

Clintonia yadig May 2015 #89

K & R AzDar May 2015 #93

Clinton-Obama-Clinton = NAFTA-TPP-??? polichick May 2015 #98

Seriously!! RiverLover May 2015 #122

It's not a mistake, LWolf May 2015 #102

Dragging out middle class down to the Mexican standard of living... krispos42 May 2015 #111