General Discussion

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)

83. I get it very well.

Sun May 10, 2015, 09:38 AM

May 2015

Many of the loudest screamers can't articulate in any practical way, how to achieve what they demand.

Let's take Bernie as an example.

For Bernie to win the nomination, he and his supporters need to convience a large number of Democrats that he WILL win in the general election. Not that he might, that he WILL.

Many Dems already believe that Hillary WILL WIN. And so, for Bernie to win the nomination from her, lots of those folks, who would happily vote for Hillary, must become convinced that Bernie WILL absolutely beat anyone the GOP puts forward.

So what do the Sanders supporters do ... attack Hillary. Which does nothing to cause people who would voter for Hillary conclude that Bernie WILL win in the general.

Many of these folks are the same folks who were demanding a primary opponent for Obama in 2012. How'd that work out?

Political strategy is not a strength for the combustible hair club.

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You know why many people don't trust Obama? [View all] ibegurpard May 2015 OP

People do not trust him because they are beginning to understand Llanganati May 2015 #1

Many people have understood that since halfway through his first term. ibegurpard May 2015 #2

+1 n/t markpkessinger May 2015 #23

Since.. sendero May 2015 #40

Yes....and I have been fredamae May 2015 #232

yep 840high May 2015 #134

I KNEW, as soon as he did this: bvar22 May 2015 #164

And remember all the excuses we heard back then - truedelphi May 2015 #202

n-dimensional chess. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #208

Did those excuses come from the same gang that's not pushing for Bernie? L0oniX May 2015 #247

there's one in particular I haven't seen for a very long time ibegurpard May 2015 #264

Probably so. truedelphi May 2015 #300

That's what they call telegraphing a message. pa28 May 2015 #224

BINGO! CrawlingChaos May 2015 #241

YEP! imthevicar May 2015 #259

I figured that out the day he appointed Geithner as Treasury Sec. hifiguy May 2015 #175

Well it makes sense. padfun May 2015 #185

heh heh n/t truedelphi May 2015 #203

That was what did it for me Aerows May 2015 #190

endless horseshit. spanone May 2015 #36

President Obama has talked and worked for increasing asian pacific trade from 2009! Sunlei May 2015 #101

To Paraphrase Dennis Kucinich, "We can all see that you are working mighty hard, there, truedelphi May 2015 #206

You're quoting the guy who RAN--not walked--to Rupert Murdoch's trough where he eats his fill? MADem May 2015 #214

I don't even know or care who that critic is. what has your DK done to bring more trade business to Sunlei May 2015 #218

That is not relevant. In fact, your statement is a red herring. truedelphi May 2015 #225

^^^^ THIS ^^^^ Octafish May 2015 #255

Outstanding post. nt woo me with science May 2015 #297

... SidDithers May 2015 #209

Wow, Sid--You converted me Jackpine Radical May 2015 #258

So Sid... ibegurpard May 2015 #265

I'm looking forward to seeing Sid's well thought-out Art_from_Ark May 2015 #269

LOL bvar22 May 2015 #299

I began to understand when he put Wall Street smack dab in the White House. cui bono May 2015 #229

And Hillary Clinton is cut from the same cloth. donf May 2015 #280

but he sure gives purty speeches Skittles May 2015 #257

I don't trust a man who eats kittens. n/t Lil Missy May 2015 #3

I don't trust anybody who'd drone a wedding party. delrem May 2015 #4

+ the number of civilians killed by drone strikes nationalize the fed May 2015 #11

Wow. CrispyQ May 2015 #131

wow is right FlatBaroque May 2015 #163

You expect the US to leave Al Qaeda alone? treestar May 2015 #38

And what do you think happens every time a drone kills an innocent civilian? markpkessinger May 2015 #54

Unfortunately, that is exactly the goal of drone strikes. Having angry enemies is necessary to GoneFishin May 2015 #75

This. ^^^ CrispyQ May 2015 #133

Maybe it meant Made/Designed in America...? Beartracks May 2015 #182

Yep. Ya got that right! kath May 2015 #149

I agree with that argument treestar May 2015 #108

If Al Qaeda didn't exist we'd have to create them ... TBF May 2015 #155

Funny how that works. +1 nt F4lconF16 May 2015 #157

If you agreed, there would be no "but" Scootaloo May 2015 #296

Well, you know, since the cold war is over we need a good solid reliable enemy. Enthusiast May 2015 #173

Yes, I think Obama droned that wedding party because he's a murderer. delrem May 2015 #216

So you really think he finds it totally unnecessary from a national security viewpoint treestar May 2015 #236

You asked a question re. the droning of a fucking wedding party. delrem May 2015 #245

Blowing up children is the key to defeating al-Qaeda? Scootaloo May 2015 #294

. stonecutter357 May 2015 #167

^^^this^^^ L0oniX May 2015 #244

That's great, me neither. So what do you think about how Obama is pushing this sabrina 1 May 2015 #103

apparently we just don't understand it... ibegurpard May 2015 #132

We have little capacity for understanding complex issues. Enthusiast May 2015 #174

Or tells us he will close Gitmo and end the torture there, and roll back the Patriot Act. rhett o rick May 2015 #192

He COULDN'T close Gitmo senz May 2015 #250

So when he said "I will close Gitmo" he really meant, "If the bad ole Republicons will let me." rhett o rick May 2015 #268

And yet Obama has an 88% approval rating among liberal Dems Cali_Democrat May 2015 #5

the same liberal dems ibegurpard May 2015 #6

why don't they support sanders ? JI7 May 2015 #17

Many of us are supporting Sanders . . . markpkessinger May 2015 #18

the fact is Sanders does not have "many" supporters JI7 May 2015 #19

No? Scuba May 2015 #24

Chirp, chirp, chirp, chirp, chirp. Big surprise there, eh? - nt KingCharlemagne May 2015 #124

If that is what you think, you aren't paying attention. nt. NCTraveler May 2015 #312

This thread is about our duplicitous corporate president, not Sen Sanders Doctor_J May 2015 #32

social issues affect working class JI7 May 2015 #21

In the political "pyramid of needs" ibegurpard May 2015 #35

Your privileged status blinds you. In 29 States, it is legal to discriminate against LGBT people in Bluenorthwest May 2015 #66

yes I'm well aware of that ibegurpard May 2015 #69

So then why are you claiming that 'social issues' are separate and less that 'food on the table' Bluenorthwest May 2015 #80

Discrimination is not the only thing that keeps people from putting food on the table. ibegurpard May 2015 #85

And when did I assert that it was 'the only thing'? I did not. Why don't you address what I DID say? Bluenorthwest May 2015 #89

Here's what you said: ibegurpard May 2015 #90

Did I say it was 'the only' cause? No. So why not address what I said? Bluenorthwest May 2015 #97

This message was self-deleted by its author Marr May 2015 #158

Democrats, particularly liberal Democrats, are the only group that does support TPP and pampango May 2015 #30

It is a job killer. Our Amerian Steel industry will be finished if this INdemo May 2015 #114

You do realize that most of the "Reagan Democrats" were from labor. Ironically, that election which still_one May 2015 #138

I figure the old truism is wrong hfojvt May 2015 #122

Ah, yes.. the reality of the Country.. that the President has helped including me. Not just the Cha May 2015 #285

I wish it weren't... but it's true. AzDar May 2015 #7

+1 Not Sure May 2015 #8

No president is an island unto him/herself. Being president BreakfastClub May 2015 #9

I noticed you did not mention the TPP DrDan May 2015 #14

"choosing the best choice of many bad choices" -- on NAFTA? on TPP? markpkessinger May 2015 #20

Thank you. LuvNewcastle May 2015 #45

Well that says it all. tblue May 2015 #151

He chose to go after medical marijuana users rather aggressively too arcane1 May 2015 #181

Indeed n/t markpkessinger May 2015 #251

Anyone with any political sense at all recognizes this ibegurpard May 2015 #34

Utter nonsense... sendero May 2015 #42

Precisely. Enthusiast May 2015 #176

Trust True Blue American May 2015 #10

Maybe it was his intention to insult Democrats. Enthusiast May 2015 #179

Welcome to DU, True Blue American. truedelphi May 2015 #197

Race plays a big part here mwrguy May 2015 #12

You pretend to actually care about the public option, and yet you know nothing about what okaawhatever May 2015 #13

You're saying he gave up with no fight because he might lose. You completely missed ... Scuba May 2015 #25

The fight to convince Brown of the public option? treestar May 2015 #39

Brown wasn't the only Senator in the Senate. But then you knew that. Scuba May 2015 #49

You ignore the 60 vote requirement, but then you knew that. eom MohRokTah May 2015 #70

Obama refused to fight for the public option. He saved his fight for the TPP. eom. Scuba May 2015 #78

Bullshit. eom MohRokTah May 2015 #79

He never had the votes in the Senate. The blue dogs were NOT going to go for it. Lieberman, Bayh, still_one May 2015 #145

This isn't about revisiting the ACA fight ibegurpard May 2015 #223

Then why bring it up by the OP? fact, it distracts from the TPP argument you are trying to make still_one May 2015 #235

It was to illustrate what he will and will not expend his political capital upon ibegurpard May 2015 #263

Bullshit. "It was surrendered out of the starting gate". He fought his ass off to get ACA passed okaawhatever May 2015 #281

Which one could have been turned? treestar May 2015 #109

The one from Nebraska basically blackmailed the White House and got a bunch of money okaawhatever May 2015 #180

So for one vote in the senate.. sendero May 2015 #43

+1,000 Scuba May 2015 #50

I'll add my +1000 to Scuba's! n/t markpkessinger May 2015 #55

Different laws and different issues treestar May 2015 #111

Ditto! nt truebluegreen May 2015 #129

Oh how fucking ridiculous. You know what, the truth is out there. You can choose to believe okaawhatever May 2015 #211

Nothing new there.. it's hilarous how they can sling anything they want and it gets eaten up by Cha May 2015 #289

+100 nt okaawhatever May 2015 #295

Hells' bell's -- anyone with two wits about them would have to wonder how truedelphi May 2015 #207

I don't remember seeing this at the time ibegurpard May 2015 #272

Oh it's one of the ignorant insult du jours.. They think they smell blood in the water again so Cha May 2015 #288

because he is black JI7 May 2015 #15

You are pushing a false narrative. Are there many people who oppose cali May 2015 #28

when we talk about"many" it is because of race JI7 May 2015 #153

I think it makes it easier for some to continue Puzzledtraveller May 2015 #171

Try, it's because he's a "New Democrat". His words on his inauguration. stillwaiting May 2015 #33

Yep, scary black guy is trying to take advantage of everyone. giftedgirl77 May 2015 #47

Call bullshit all you want ibegurpard May 2015 #48

He is less "scary" than fucking Wayne Brady get out of here with that lame, copycat bullshit. TheKentuckian May 2015 #127

Horsepucky. 99Forever May 2015 #73

Try because he's a con man... polichick May 2015 #146

Yeah, I remember his talks against the plubic option. joshcryer May 2015 #16

He certainly didn't fight for it. Scuba May 2015 #26

He was a newcomer. joshcryer May 2015 #27

Wow, that's really lame. Scuba May 2015 #29

He was elected because he rocked the boat from the beginning. n/t Exilednight May 2015 #92

Maybe he should have blackmailed Liberman. JoePhilly May 2015 #57

maybe ibegurpard May 2015 #59

Funny ... liberals advocating the President use illegal methods to pass JoePhilly May 2015 #63

Funny isn't it. TM99 May 2015 #98

Is he blackmailing either one? JoePhilly May 2015 #100

Why raise 'blackmailing'? TM99 May 2015 #220

He was apparently saving such tactics for the TPP. Scuba May 2015 #61

which is exactly the point I'm making here ibegurpard May 2015 #62

Who has he blackmailed? JoePhilly May 2015 #64

Well, he's putting on a full-court press for the TPP, something he never did for the public option. Scuba May 2015 #65

So no one. Public option was never going to happen. JoePhilly May 2015 #67

The public option was never going to happen without him fighting for it, which he didn't. And ... Scuba May 2015 #68

exactly ibegurpard May 2015 #71

It was never going to happen period. JoePhilly May 2015 #74

You don't seem to get it. But at least you're consistent. Scuba May 2015 #77

I get it very well. JoePhilly May 2015 #83

Especially about this fighting meme treestar May 2015 #117

It's not that he didn't fight hard enough. It's that he didn't fight at all. Scuba May 2015 #177

Exactly. He waved the white flag before the first shots were fired. BillZBubb May 2015 #184

You know sometimes I think that's what people are suggesting treestar May 2015 #115

How is this fighting done? treestar May 2015 #113

We're talking about what he fights vociferously FOR here... ibegurpard May 2015 #44

We have the best government corporations can buy. B Calm May 2015 #22

Because he doesn't take ACA and public schools "personally". Smarmie Doofus May 2015 #31

The ACA has saved my sister and her family ... JoePhilly May 2015 #96

It's hard to know how your post relates to either mine or to the OP. Smarmie Doofus May 2015 #140

Your assumption of my opinions about the ACA are correct ibegurpard May 2015 #142

Try to force the PO and there would be no ACA. JoePhilly May 2015 #154

You've been championing corporate-friendly third-way policy on DU ibegurpard May 2015 #162

Awe .. and now you try to hurt my feelings ... how "liberal" of you. JoePhilly May 2015 #316

I think you make a good point here. NCTraveler May 2015 #314

What's the point of going to the mat for things that won't happen? treestar May 2015 #37

This is about what he goes to the mat FOR ibegurpard May 2015 #41

One of MY senators ibegurpard May 2015 #46

Montana? One of the States that offers zero protection from discriminatin in employment to LGBT Bluenorthwest May 2015 #76

I already told you to shove your presumptions ibegurpard May 2015 #81

And yet you keep yammering that 'social issues' have nothing to do with jobs. Maybe you have been Bluenorthwest May 2015 #94

I think those were impossible goals.. this one is doable. DCBob May 2015 #51

yup...cheer on your corporate third-way president! ibegurpard May 2015 #52

Nonsensical ignorant insulting comment. DCBob May 2015 #188

That's all they got. Cha May 2015 #290

I never trust anyone that has ... 99Forever May 2015 #53

If you don't trust trustworthy people, there is something wrong with you. tridim May 2015 #56

If you trust people you have no personal relationship or experience with ibegurpard May 2015 #58

Then you don't know what the word "trustworthy" means. tridim May 2015 #125

OK ibegurpard May 2015 #130

LOL.. they're always looking for blood in the water.. think they really have it this time.. oh yeah Cha May 2015 #286

I don't trust the perpetually disgruntled or the combustible hair club. JoePhilly May 2015 #60

^^^ This right here. MohRokTah May 2015 #72

Indeed.. have they ever been right about anything?? DCBob May 2015 #82

To be fair ... JoePhilly May 2015 #88

If they were in charge.. DCBob May 2015 #93

Agree completely ... JoePhilly May 2015 #95

Sure they can ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #303

Lol JoePhilly May 2015 #307

Amen to your last sentence treestar May 2015 #120

Thanks for the sanity redstateblues May 2015 #234

KnR to everyone of your posts! sheshe2 May 2015 #248

This, in its entirety. Bobbie Jo May 2015 #84

Probably how I don't trust the corporate third-way apologists ibegurpard May 2015 #87

Obama didn't sign NAFTA or telecom deregulation. JoePhilly May 2015 #91

Clinton signed NAFTA and the 1996 Telecommunications Act neverforget May 2015 #116

+10000000000000000 treestar May 2015 #118

Thank you! tridim May 2015 #128

Their persistence even in the face of being wrong many times is sooooooo.........conservative uponit7771 May 2015 #243

But but but You don't think Bernie will usher in a Socialist redstateblues May 2015 #254

+1 n/t FSogol May 2015 #313

Different messaging for a different audience. Unvanguard May 2015 #86

Huh? 99Forever May 2015 #99

Meant every word. Unvanguard May 2015 #102

What color is the sky in your world? 99Forever May 2015 #104

Pretty sure it's still blue Unvanguard May 2015 #105

Interesting. 99Forever May 2015 #106

Sounds like a strange multidimensional coincidence Unvanguard May 2015 #112

Obama had a Democratic majority when the ACA was being negotiated. Maedhros May 2015 #172

And like he's doing at this very moment for the TPP ibegurpard May 2015 #178

He could not afford to lose a single Democrat in the Senate. Unvanguard May 2015 #221

He ultimately lost a lot ibegurpard May 2015 #222

The Affordable Care Act is doing enormous good every day. Unvanguard May 2015 #238

Find some. Maedhros May 2015 #266

Oh he's real good at it when he wants to be ibegurpard May 2015 #267

So you would vote for Obama again even INdemo May 2015 #107

If my choices were Elizabeth Warren or Obama ibegurpard May 2015 #110

What about Hillary or Sanders? INdemo May 2015 #119

Sanders as far as he can go ibegurpard May 2015 #121

2008 Candidate Obama: "I will replace Fast Track... RiverLover May 2015 #123

ty 840high May 2015 #136

I think one could argue that he is attempting to do that. DCBob May 2015 #137

And one could also argue he's thrown the majority of it out the window. ibegurpard May 2015 #141

I dont think so. DCBob May 2015 #144

Proof? RiverLover May 2015 #150

Of course he is. Cha May 2015 #287

BBI Bobbie Jo May 2015 #148

K&R CharlotteVale May 2015 #126

A public option or medicare for all could not pass. I love the same talking point on the ACA when still_one May 2015 #135

Once again: ibegurpard May 2015 #139

He had no political capital with the ACA, no blue dog would have allowed the public option. The still_one May 2015 #147

I don't know how you oppose NAFTA but support onecaliberal May 2015 #143

+1000 nt Mojorabbit May 2015 #152

Not this shit again. It springs up like malaria with mind-numbing regularity. True Blue Door May 2015 #156

Mt Rushmore material? ibegurpard May 2015 #159

It's mind-boggling if you sincerely believe that. True Blue Door May 2015 #160

"The smallness of commentary like this is unbecoming of progressivism." Number23 May 2015 #191

"Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain." True Blue Door May 2015 #195

the gods? ibegurpard May 2015 #196

It's a metaphor from poetry, sport. True Blue Door May 2015 #199

Here's a quote to stick up your metaphor ibegurpard May 2015 #200

Here's another. True Blue Door May 2015 #205

Same old BS Andy823 May 2015 #161

Yawn trumad May 2015 #165

.. Cha May 2015 #291

It's become obvious who he represents raindaddy May 2015 #166

Because he has proven he can't be trusted? nt truebluegreen May 2015 #168

hyperbolic nonsense. stonecutter357 May 2015 #169

I Will No Longer Settle For The Lesser Of Two Evils - Go Bernie Go cantbeserious May 2015 #170

you don't "trust" Obama? heaven05 May 2015 #183

And you know why alot of people do trust him? Because they look at the caliber of his opposition Number23 May 2015 #186

Take a look at the caliber of his opposition on this issue... ibegurpard May 2015 #187

The same people on the "left" that are howling about this have howled about everything. Number23 May 2015 #193

Not everything ibegurpard May 2015 #194

No - EVERYTHING. And even when convinced that Evil Obama would do what Evil Obama does best Number23 May 2015 #201

not everything ibegurpard May 2015 #204

And this board screamed that none of these things would happen because the man is Pure Evil Number23 May 2015 #210

oh calm down ibegurpard May 2015 #213

Saying that this discussion is pointless is not hyperbole. I have no idea why you're telling me to Number23 May 2015 #237

No one has ever said he's pure evil ibegurpard May 2015 #261

Again, it's obvious you only see what you want. You got people in this thread calling him a "con man Number23 May 2015 #271

Exactly +1000000000 Andy823 May 2015 #227

Their egos are what fuel them.. not reality. Cha May 2015 #293

One of the reasons I'm for Hillary, cause the dumb ass'd conservatives hate her. uponit7771 May 2015 #246

Congratulations dreamnightwind May 2015 #249

Your post makes no sense at all Number23 May 2015 #270

Sadly I believe you really don't get it dreamnightwind May 2015 #282

My guess is different levels of understanding of the English language. Number23 May 2015 #302

Aloha 23.. I trust President Obama because he comes through.. he's earned his trust. And, couldn't Cha May 2015 #283

I've learned not to trust ANY politician (nt) bigwillq May 2015 #189

generally a good idea ibegurpard May 2015 #198

Make that ANYBODY. Helen Borg May 2015 #217

As a beneficiary of ACA I am very thankful he was strong in pushing ACA even Thinkingabout May 2015 #212

Obama has totally ruined any legacy he had with this TPP. ananda May 2015 #215

A story from Oregon ibegurpard May 2015 #219

Incestuous plutocrat fuckery is why I don't trust him, whitehouse.gov ISDS reply to Senator Warren Agony May 2015 #226

That is One Hellava Question fredamae May 2015 #228

It's nice to see that he's capable of leadership. lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #230

The two things he's really fought hard for: cui bono May 2015 #231

Hear, hear. EEO May 2015 #233

I'd vote for him again, but... Freelancer May 2015 #239

A bait-and-switch, corporate Trojan horse presidency built on lies. woo me with science May 2015 #240

He was keeping his powder dry so he could fuck us all over with TPP, then he's gone whereisjustice May 2015 #242

A President can't buck corporate power by himself senz May 2015 #252

That's just a PARTIAL list of what needs to be done before a progressive president have an impact. senz May 2015 #253

anyone with a lick of sense knows that ibegurpard May 2015 #262

False premise. It is NOT true that "many people don't trust Obama"! George II May 2015 #256

A false premise would be that ALL people don't trust Obama ibegurpard May 2015 #260

Many people do Trust President Obama.. and yeah, if "oversimplify" means "untrue". Cha May 2015 #292

I voted for the president twice... the_sly_pig May 2015 #273

So did I ibegurpard May 2015 #274

He had no congress to work with.... the_sly_pig May 2015 #275

read this ibegurpard May 2015 #276

Thanks for that disturbing article... :( the_sly_pig May 2015 #278

I'm sorry ibegurpard May 2015 #279

No matter how good a man he is he's still A POLITICIAN! Kablooie May 2015 #277

I don't know if Bush honestly believed invading Iraq was to be wonderful for all of us or not Maedhros May 2015 #304

It not that you shouldn't criticize him. The point is you shouldn't TRUST him. Kablooie May 2015 #305

Oh, I don't. Maedhros May 2015 #306

Not what I meant. I guess I didn't make my point clearly enough. Kablooie May 2015 #308

That is certainly true. Maedhros May 2015 #309

Is he running for reelection? Nevernose May 2015 #310

I hate to say it but you may be right. Kablooie May 2015 #311

Yes, but it's considered impolite to say it. nt ucrdem May 2015 #284

TPP, Obama and McConnell have an agreement. B Calm May 2015 #298

I heard Thom make this point today also. randys1 May 2015 #301

Please give me some names of more "trusted" politicians Blue_Tires May 2015 #315