General Discussion

BB_Smoke

(62 posts)

30. Ideologues will ignore your experience and the facts.

Sun May 10, 2015, 07:30 PM

May 2015

You aren't comfirming their bias or validating their outrage du jour. How dare you.

Also, they think all trade agreements are the same. They employ fallacies usually expected from the Right. "NAFTA was bad, and was a trade agreement. TPP is also a trade agreement, so therefore, it must be bad." NAFTA isn't TPP, and even the most objective analysis of NAFTA proves it has been a mixed bag, neither all good or all bad. Like most human endeavours.

I find it curious that not one person against it can factually demonstrate why. It's all conspiratorial conjecture, based on alleged provisions that may not even make the final cut. I want to make up my own mind, once the final draft is submitted. I am not going to let a demagogue Elizabeth Warren do it for me.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

204 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Here's the source for some of the pro-TPP bull$hit being disseminated on DU: [View all] brentspeak May 2015 OP

Of course ibegurpard May 2015 #1

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. Scuba May 2015 #5

+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! WillyT May 2015 #17

1st post and the winner of the thread! Rex May 2015 #24

That's what I say about the Right Wing.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #51

Maybe. But I think that the idea that tax dollars might help some people move up one or two rungs on GoneFishin May 2015 #161

Brainwashing works.nt valerief May 2015 #167

Well put. pa28 May 2015 #60

Thread win. L0oniX May 2015 #83

That's one deft observation, sir Jack Rabbit May 2015 #86

I would love to see the black budget for psyops on the American people these days. woo me with science May 2015 #97

quite a list ibegurpard May 2015 #110

Well, you know there's truth in advertising, uh-huh... MrMickeysMom May 2015 #116

Lots of good reading here. Thanks! nt Mojorabbit May 2015 #126

But you are just gish galumping dreamnightwind May 2015 #135

You should make this an OP, woo. hifiguy May 2015 #173

Black budget for psyops on the American people these days? Enthusiast May 2015 #184

Boom. hifiguy May 2015 #172

Actually, the source of my pro-TPP bullshit is... TreasonousBastard May 2015 #2

All Supposition And Conjecture - However, Real Americans Lived Through The Past Trade Agreements cantbeserious May 2015 #3

My experience is supposition and conjecture? TreasonousBastard May 2015 #43

Your experience is anecdotal LastLiberal in PalmSprings May 2015 #76

I have 71 years of experience. I remember life before the trade agreements. JDPriestly May 2015 #189

How old are you? How much experience do you have? JDPriestly May 2015 #190

I have always ben warned to stay off boats that are registered in Liberia hollysmom May 2015 #6

You're really going to hate this... TreasonousBastard May 2015 #68

oh, that is fine, years ago I got my captains license in Florida so I can rent a boat there hollysmom May 2015 #134

"but many worse things will happen without it" brentspeak May 2015 #7

Really. Like what? Do tell, TB. nt SusanCalvin May 2015 #65

Ideologues will ignore your experience and the facts. BB_Smoke May 2015 #30

Perhaps you have to see it first to get so concrete daredtowork May 2015 #41

hear hear nt grasswire May 2015 #52

Noted conspiracy theorist Robert Reich is also bad mouthing this wonderful trade deal. FlatBaroque May 2015 #45

Wow another new person popping in to support Free Trade. Amazing. LOL. rhett o rick May 2015 #53

Post removed Post removed May 2015 #63

LOL, right. The 'silent majority' is REALLY into securing cheaper labor for Nike. Marr May 2015 #66

Nike has plenty of cheap labor as it is ConservativeDemocrat May 2015 #82

They always want it cheaper. Marr May 2015 #96

"Silent majority"?! It's 1969 all over again... deurbano May 2015 #74

1969 and the entire 70's - airwaves filled with this insipid rhetoric 2banon May 2015 #119

Internet Propagandists billhicks76 May 2015 #64

Just the fact that so much is "secret" is enough to warrant suspicion. 7962 May 2015 #149

In that case so is your defense of it. sulphurdunn May 2015 #57

I think a lot of people will make their own minds up Exilednight May 2015 #67

You assume we peons SusanCalvin May 2015 #70

demagogue Elizabeth Warren progressoid May 2015 #104

NAFTA decimated manufacturing and the ancillary industries that support those businesses that Ikonoklast May 2015 #159

So, I have read enough of NAFTA to know why I don't like it. JDPriestly May 2015 #191

NAFTA was "neither all good or all bad" for whom? immoderate May 2015 #193

Post removed Post removed May 2015 #36

Funny those same 20 years and what has happened under NAFTA nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #37

Please feel free to bore us sulphurdunn May 2015 #44

Of course... TreasonousBastard May 2015 #56

One vote for anarchy Geronimoe May 2015 #61

A vote for a life that is... PosterChild May 2015 #79

make that 2 votes for Anarchy. nt. druidity33 May 2015 #143

As far as I can see SusanCalvin May 2015 #72

Hundreds of global trade agreements sulphurdunn May 2015 #75

Good analysis, Thanks! /nt/ PosterChild May 2015 #81

Please enlighten us with your insider knowledge of ISDS? GeorgeGist May 2015 #89

Logical Fallacy: Your argument 'TPP or "anarchy leading to Chinese hegemony" ' is a False Dichotomy. xocet May 2015 #118

So that's your argument? RichVRichV May 2015 #130

I actually think protectionism is a reasonable response dreamnightwind May 2015 #138

I like this. Gregorian May 2015 #169

of course, along with "no insider knowledge of the TPP" ...you left out the parts about magical thyme May 2015 #146

"tariffs, taxes, safety concerns, piracy, currency exchange, port management, time zones" eridani May 2015 #147

Hmm. Chan790 May 2015 #152

How quaint, you think it's about an exchange of sprockets and doodads Scootaloo May 2015 #177

I think it's cute how you reduced anyone disagreeing with your position as "preferring anarchy... LanternWaste May 2015 #181

+ 100 ! !! PosterChild May 2015 #73

Actually, my Anti-TPP Position is based on being in international trade and transportation since '73 KJG52 May 2015 #80

^^^^^^^^^ moondust May 2015 #113

+1 deutsey May 2015 #151

Exactly! hifiguy May 2015 #174

We are people, not disposable comodities. If these deals are so good, then it should reflect whereisjustice May 2015 #107

^ BlancheSplanchnik May 2015 #123

Is there room in your boat? DirtyHippyBastard May 2015 #185

help yourself BlancheSplanchnik May 2015 #192

Appeal to authority and false dichotomy Cal Carpenter May 2015 #176

I favor just breaking our current trade agreements and limiting imports until wages rise JDPriestly May 2015 #188

So they were behind Ro Khanna's campaign, too. That figures. CharlotteVale May 2015 #4

Has anyone wondered WHY some at DU are supporting TPP? DisgustipatedinCA May 2015 #8

Well stated. I'd like to see some attempts at refutation. erronis May 2015 #15

Ding! Ding! Ding! Phlem May 2015 #16

I apologize for sounding like a broken record as some of my "friends" keep pointing out, BUT rhett o rick May 2015 #19

Well keep saying it because it is true. zeemike May 2015 #42

If the vast bulk of your income is profit from investment capital. delrem May 2015 #22

If all you care about is maximizing return sulphurdunn May 2015 #49

The playing field might be level, Art_from_Ark May 2015 #114

I think I've made my feelings clear Aerows May 2015 #39

Quite often, these are the same members who support Surveillance State. grasswire May 2015 #55

I sure hope the trade agreement passes. I think its passage..... PosterChild May 2015 #90

Biggest lie ever is "low skill manufacturing jobs"... they are moving engineering, research, legal, whereisjustice May 2015 #109

Yes, both Obama and Hillary dreamnightwind May 2015 #141

Yes, of course.... PosterChild May 2015 #145

Your claims are bullshit. Let the 1% billionaries sacrifice for a change, your "reality" isn't whereisjustice May 2015 #154

LOL ! (nm) PosterChild May 2015 #194

Assembling sneakers is a "high value job" in your world? SMC22307 May 2015 #117

No, of course not, that's .... PosterChild May 2015 #144

I see the same problem with the NSA apologists who have fallen in love with our police state... whereisjustice May 2015 #108

Thank you! Paka May 2015 #127

Ever wonder about deep cover? Divernan May 2015 #139

LOL Puglover May 2015 #163

Looks like I wasn't the only one who noticed too neverforget May 2015 #195

Nothing else explains it whatchamacallit May 2015 #182

Young, probably affluent, I'm guessing from top schools... SMC22307 May 2015 #9

Yep, just read the first 4 founding members. zeemike May 2015 #58

Instead of a long weekend at Virginia Beach, trekking the Himalayas is the norm. SMC22307 May 2015 #121

Or, paying $0.10 a post from outsourced PR firm in China and/or India. whereisjustice May 2015 #112

Some are clearly paid by the post, others seem to be paid by the word. Divernan May 2015 #140

OMG! This leads straight to the White House! Major Hogwash May 2015 #10

So White House officials are using tax dollars to fund an astroturf PR group? brentspeak May 2015 #11

Post removed Post removed May 2015 #12

IMAGINE that this White House would be complicit in manipulating and propagandizing Americans! woo me with science May 2015 #91

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words May 2015 #13

And perhaps this as well Dragonfli May 2015 #18

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words May 2015 #21

And this.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #59

I missed that one the first time around. K&R. Enthusiast May 2015 #160

those are good links. k&r nt bananas May 2015 #14

Kicked Enthusiast May 2015 #20

All it takes is a knowledge of history Aerows May 2015 #23

Well,, maybe not the final sellout. malthaussen May 2015 #170

As cheerful a bunch that should ever walk the plank... Ford_Prefect May 2015 #25

Well, here's an opinion piece from a couple of Democrats. Hoyt May 2015 #26

Is three times the charm? djean111 May 2015 #31

Nope, I'm speaking truth to myopia. Hoyt May 2015 #32

Um, Progressive Coalition for America is about as sincere a name as Americans for Prosperity. djean111 May 2015 #34

Maybe you ought to read about his position, before posting crud you consider "progressive." Hoyt May 2015 #38

You know, crud is such a rude little word. djean111 May 2015 #46

Better than people who use the word "s#@t" all the time. Do you have a substantive comment? Hoyt May 2015 #47

A bit more on Patrick and anticipation: KoKo May 2015 #162

Progressive coalition for America tennstar May 2015 #84

You seem to be in the minority regarding her. Hoyt May 2015 #92

In the minority tennstar May 2015 #101

Do you have any substantive, citable criticism of her, other than your opinion. Hoyt May 2015 #103

He gave you reasons Caretha May 2015 #155

The general opinion of her is quite different. Hoyt May 2015 #157

What do you think about Rossi? uppityperson May 2015 #171

Welcome to DU tennstar chknltl May 2015 #122

Deval Patrick who's joining Romney's Bain Capital? SMC22307 May 2015 #124

You too should read about his position. Maybe if you are doing more for folks, you could tell us Hoyt May 2015 #128

excuse me? ibegurpard May 2015 #129

I'm talking about Deval Patrick. I really don't care who he uses to accomplish his goals. Hoyt May 2015 #131

of course you don't ibegurpard May 2015 #132

Maybe you too could tell us what you are doing that has the chance to accomplish more than Patrick. Hoyt May 2015 #133

"social impact" investing = Green washing Astroturf and neoliberal indentured status for the poor. TheKentuckian May 2015 #148

My work life revolves around EMTALA at not-for-profit hospitals. SMC22307 May 2015 #198

What, you figure out how to transfer sick people, but appear to comply with law? Hoyt May 2015 #199

My goodness, so cynical... SMC22307 May 2015 #200

Yeah, you are righteous, but Patrick can't possibly be doing anything good. Hoyt May 2015 #201

And the Bain vultures will be happy with scraping off just a little bit of profit? SMC22307 May 2015 #202

Patrick doesn't do that, nor does he try to handle uninsured patients under EMTALA to avoid Hoyt May 2015 #203

Darn Chinese phone goes nuts. Sorry Hoyt May 2015 #26

Unintended duplicate, sorry. Hoyt May 2015 #26

Omar Kahn, worst campaign manager ever, re: Charlie Crist was sent to DC to begin this talk! TheNutcracker May 2015 #29

fuckin' A, man. The money humpers are desperate JEB May 2015 #33

K&R Those who build surveillance machines woo me with science May 2015 #35

There have been plenty of polls showing "actual rank-and-file Democrats" support TPP. pampango May 2015 #40

I'd rather see a poll of how many know what is in the TPP Geronimoe May 2015 #62

That's an effective way to discount poll results that you don't agree with. n/t pampango May 2015 #71

So give us some examples of these polls Art_from_Ark May 2015 #87

Here you go: pampango May 2015 #158

Pampango's latest pro-TPP propraganda prat-fall: brentspeak May 2015 #166

Why do you consider them "made-up stats"? They are consistent with polls from other sources. pampango May 2015 #168

Exactly SusanCalvin May 2015 #77

I fully support the TPP MohRokTah May 2015 #48

I like Obama but the TPP is corporate crap and that's why the majority of Dems in DC don't want to think May 2015 #54

what a great reason. so you would love a food you hate because of how someone you hate feels about NRaleighLiberal May 2015 #98

go team! ibegurpard May 2015 #115

But the "Obama haters" in Congress (i.e., the Republicans) support the TPP... xocet May 2015 #120

Admitting to being a fully reactionary thinker probably won't garner much respect. stillwaiting May 2015 #150

Here let me edit that ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #156

List the parts you like AgingAmerican May 2015 #204

Double kick ananda May 2015 #50

And there are those of us who simply want to know the details before making a decision. Buzz Clik May 2015 #69

Bingo. SusanCalvin May 2015 #78

Really? You read the legislation introduced in Congress? Buzz Clik May 2015 #93

Uh, I thought I was agreeing with you. SusanCalvin May 2015 #94

I'm not sure. Buzz Clik May 2015 #95

Ah. SusanCalvin May 2015 #102

Wrong place Jack Rabbit May 2015 #85

Thanks for the link... Thespian2 May 2015 #88

Corporate government is corrupt government. woo me with science May 2015 #99

This belongs on the Greatest Page. Actually, it should be pinned to the top of the board woo me with science May 2015 #100

Corporations, grown too big, are a cancer. SusanCalvin May 2015 #105

The TPP is Trash at best, imthevicar May 2015 #106

And they are here, aren't they. Their day job must be writing Hallmark greeting cards. whereisjustice May 2015 #111

I've seen some very fishy posts JonLP24 May 2015 #125

Hidden hand discovers hidden hand, ep. #467. ucrdem May 2015 #136

The DUers who disagree with you are real people BainsBane May 2015 #137

From my perspective, some Democratic voters ARE the enemy. Maedhros May 2015 #178

Good to see you admit it BainsBane May 2015 #180

How am I targeting the poor and disenfranchised by opposing the TPP? Maedhros May 2015 #183

Not by opposing TPP BainsBane May 2015 #186

In another post, I said that the TPP will probably not affect my job at all. Maedhros May 2015 #187

Nobody can take Republicans seriously anymore, stonecutter357 May 2015 #142

Most DUers pushing TPP work overseas. B Calm May 2015 #153

K&R nt raouldukelives May 2015 #164

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc May 2015 #165

The sockpuppets are out in force on his one. blackspade May 2015 #175

I Guessed As Much colsohlibgal May 2015 #179

Real Jobs rug May 2015 #196

Thanks mang...nt Jesus Malverde May 2015 #197