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cali

(114,904 posts)
37. not even close. Here:
Mon May 11, 2015, 06:30 AM
May 2015

I've been looking to see if he invested as much and worked as hard on healthcare reform as I've heard folks claim. indeed people have claimed he worked harder on healthcare reform than the tpp. I can find no indication that those claims are true. It appears that the tpa (which will last for years after he leaves the WH) and the tpp are more important agenda items than ANYTHING else has been during his presidency. Why do I think that is? My best guess is that he's become so invested in the tpp, he can't see the forest for the trees- and part of that has to do with his caring about his legacy. Unlike a lot of folks, I don't think he's doing this for some future pay day. That pay day is coming regardless, as it does for all ex-presidents. I think what he's doing takes an enormous amount of hubris and believing that only he and the people in the amen chorus know what's best, but hubris is hardly an unusual personality trait in a President.

As far as I can see, the President didn't put anywhere near the effort into healthcare reform that he's put into this. I can find no evidence that he set up a war room prior to the vote- though he did set up one after it to deal with Healthcare.gov. That "war room" was in Maryland.

http://www.benefitspro.com/2013/11/01/healthcaregov-war-room-exposed-problems
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/75077/how-they-did-it

The WH war room for the blessed TPP that us ignorant people are just too stupid to fall in line and praise our President for, is in the Eisenhower Building- right next door to the WH- and yeah, location indicates quite a bit.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/05/11/business/economy-business/dinner-data-part-obamas-courting-democrats-trade-authority-tpp/#.VVB67fBChOx

The President is cajoling and promising and threatening- in other words using both his bully pulpit and the power inherent in being President to get members of his own party (particularly in the House) on board. He is making far more effort in this area than he did with republicans.

The President is using his megaphone to excoriate opponents and, well, not being truthful. In one breath, it's that his opponents are politicians with hidden agendas, in another it's that they're ignorant. He says that lawmakers have access to the tpp drafts but then says they don't know the first thing about it.

He's been nasty, petty and demonstrated his contempt for liberals and progressives in a way he NEVER has regarding republicans. Not in the healthcare reform fight or anything else throughout the six years of his Presidency.

I've seen far too many folks saying I trust the President 100%. He knows what's best. To me, that's simply abandoning your obligation to do your due diligence. It's the politics of adoration, of personality, rather than the politics of policy. And it can be dangerous. history is replete with examples.

He'll win this battle. He'll get his legacy on this. winners write history, and NAFTA hasn't really damaged Bill Clinton.

We will pay for it. We will pay for it with ballooning trade deficits, an unknown number of job losses, big corporate gains, further weakening of unions, less access to generic drugs, unknown damage to food safety, unknown damage to the environment, particularly to the ocean, and increased corporate power and reach. Apologies to those supporting this agreement but yeah, the strong probability is that all these will happen. You may want to deny that the past is an accurate indicator of the future in matters like this, but that's just untrue, and we know some specifics such as extending patents for drugs through the odious practice of greening which makes it impossible for generics of those drugs to be produced.








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Obama and the TPP: Poll #1 [View all] MannyGoldstein May 2015 OP
He fought for health care harder. hrmjustin May 2015 #1
That is the one. Rex May 2015 #2
slight revision ibegurpard May 2015 #3
My recollection is that most of that was behind the scenes deals MannyGoldstein May 2015 #4
He fought very hard for it in public. hrmjustin May 2015 #5
Not really. He didn't even bring up single-payer and he tossed the public option aside. cui bono May 2015 #19
He didn't campaign on single payer. joshcryer May 2015 #23
Agree. cui bono May 2015 #25
The talks were protested several times. joshcryer May 2015 #29
Precisely. PDittie May 2015 #34
I admit this fight may *seem* harder than his health insurance fight magical thyme May 2015 #55
He wheeled and dealed for mandated corporate health insurance. SMC22307 May 2015 #6
Like how he tirelessly lobbied Joe Liberman on the one vote needed for a public option? pa28 May 2015 #11
You believe lieberman? i don't! hrmjustin May 2015 #12
How about the New York Times then? pa28 May 2015 #14
Don't trust them either but you made your point. hrmjustin May 2015 #15
So is there some evidence to the contrary? Jim Lane May 2015 #21
Not just Lieberman, but any Senator who wasn't already on board??? Scuba May 2015 #36
Good point. Did he tell Blanche Lincoln he had his eye on the primary? Jim Lane May 2015 #50
^^^^^^^That right there^^^^^^^^^^ BrotherIvan May 2015 #16
Yes, thank you. I keep hearing we don't have a public option because Lieberman. pa28 May 2015 #18
I disagree. joshcryer May 2015 #22
Not against his own party, though Scootaloo May 2015 #27
not even close. Here: cali May 2015 #37
You are correct. If he had fought this hard for any progressive idea I would have been proud of him. GoneFishin May 2015 #56
He's never had so many Democrats misrepresenting the facts. Hoyt May 2015 #7
For their own gain? You are delusional if you believe that about them. cui bono May 2015 #20
Absolutely-- Warren and Sanders (and Brown) in the Senate Art_from_Ark May 2015 #46
Actually, Warren and Sanders are abssolutely right on the TPP. JDPriestly May 2015 #30
I simply believe it will he good for our future, not to mention other parts of the world. Hoyt May 2015 #32
How has NAFTA worked "long term"? BillZBubb May 2015 #53
You claim that Democrats like Warren and Sanders are "misrepresenting the facts" Art_from_Ark May 2015 #47
Other things? Usually he sent someone else out to fight for those. Puzzledtraveller May 2015 #8
I'd say he's discovered the bully pulpit in his fight for TPP fast track. pa28 May 2015 #9
I don't see him particularly "fighting" for TPP like he did for ACA Recursion May 2015 #10
That's a fair portrayal. joshcryer May 2015 #24
you think it's fair to call people who oppose the tpp "alarmists"? cali May 2015 #38
It's fair to say he's not fighting. joshcryer May 2015 #41
"alarmists"? Do you have any experience with, say, the NAFTA trade courts? JDPriestly May 2015 #31
The ones AFL-CIO keep winning against foreign governments in? Recursion May 2015 #33
This dispute resolution thing is such a red herring. joshcryer May 2015 #35
not really. do some research. You do know that the ISDS process doesn't just apply to cali May 2015 #39
Name one single ISDS case the US has lost. joshcryer May 2015 #40
One more time. I didn't claim any such thing- though there have been some cali May 2015 #44
I don't see a problem. joshcryer May 2015 #45
and... we are done. One liners. cali May 2015 #48
Sure, make it personal. joshcryer May 2015 #49
1. there is a first time for everything magical thyme May 2015 #58
IDSD has no appeals method for labor or governments to countersue magical thyme May 2015 #57
"ISDS" isn't a thing. It's a category of intl law. The question was about NAFTA Recursion May 2015 #59
the tread topic is TPP. The NAFTA question, which you didn't answer, was re: your hands on magical thyme May 2015 #60
and the ISDS process has been used successfully cali May 2015 #61
But you personally have no experience with them, do you? JDPriestly May 2015 #62
No though my wife has Recursion May 2015 #63
I have too. That's why I do not like the free trade agreements that set up special courts. JDPriestly May 2015 #64
So, how would you like treaties to be enforced then? Recursion May 2015 #65
Countries could sue each other. JDPriestly May 2015 #66
Calling Sen. Warren untruthful isn't fighting? MannyGoldstein May 2015 #43
Well, he did twist arms for Cronybus/DEregulating Wall Street, woo me with science May 2015 #13
I think he fights hard in campaigns BrotherIvan May 2015 #17
I find it very telling that you wrote "public" with "fighting." joshcryer May 2015 #26
I've only seen fighting about how hard he's fighting for it. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #28
His true colors are on full display. polichick May 2015 #42
Is GitMo still open for business? KansDem May 2015 #51
Calling Elizabeth Warren out is a ploy, as many of his moves are . n/t orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #52
And I hope she doubles down on her criticism of this bad deal. BillZBubb May 2015 #54
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Obama and the TPP: Poll #...»Reply #37