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cali

(114,904 posts)
44. One more time. I didn't claim any such thing- though there have been some
Mon May 11, 2015, 07:07 AM
May 2015

troubling precedents set here in the U.S.:

Loewen Group (Funeral home conglomerate)

When a Mississippi state court jury ruled against the Loewen Group, a Canadian funeral home conglomerate, in a private contract dispute, Loewen launched an ISDS claim against the U.S. government under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). In the underlying U.S. court ruling challenged by Loewen, a Mississippi jury determined that Loewen had engaged in anti-competitive and predatory business practices that “clearly violated every contract it ever had” with a local Mississippi funeral home. After Loewen rejected an offer to settle the case, the company was hit with a jury damages award requiring it to pay the local funeral home $500 million. Loewen sought to appeal. Under both U.S. federal and Mississippi state court procedures, a bond must be posted as part of the appeal process to ensure that a losing party does not seek to move its assets to avoid paying on the initial ruling. This procedural rule, as well as the uncertainties related to jury damage awards, pertains to domestic and foreign firms alike. After a failed bid to lower the bond, Loewen reached a settlement for approximately $85 million.76 But then Loewen launched a NAFTA case for $725 million, claiming that the requirement to post bond and the jury trial system violated the company’s investor rights under NAFTA. The tribunal explicitly ruled that court decisions, rules and procedures were government “measures” subject to challenge and review under the ISDS regime. The ruling made clear that foreign corporations that lose tort cases in the United States can ask ISDS tribunals to second-guess the domestic decisions and to shift the cost of their court damages to U.S. taxpayers. [p. 11]


Do you believe that what happens in other countries due to the ISDS process is irrelevant to this discussion?

. S.D. Myers (Trash company)

When Canada imposed a temporary ban on the export of a hazardous waste called polychlorinated biphenyls (PCB), considered by the U.S. EPA to be toxic to humans and the environment, U.S. waste treatment company S.D. Myers launched a case under NAFTA that resulted in an ISDS tribunal ordering Canada to pay the company almost $6 million. [p. 15]

. Insurance Bureau of Canada (Insurance cartel)

When an all-party committee of the provincial government of New Brunswick, Canada recommended that the province develop its own public auto insurance program, the private insurance industry used the threat of a NAFTA investor-state case to successfully lobby against the program. In response to public outcry over skyrocketing auto insurance premiums, the New Brunswick committee recommended a public plan that would achieve average premium reductions of approximately 20 percent. The Insurance Bureau of Canada, representing Canada’s largest insurers, immediately warned that the proposal could trigger NAFTA investor-state cases from foreign insurance providers in Canada as a NAFTA-prohibited “expropriation” of their market share. The proposal was soon scuttled, due in part, according to observers, to “aggressive threats of treaty litigation.”

Renco (Smelter)

When the Peruvian government denied a request from the U.S.-based Renco Group for a third extension of its deadline to comply with its contractual commitment to remediate environmental and health problems caused by its toxic metal smelting operation, Renco launched an $800 million ISDS case against the government under the U.S.-Peru FTA. After having already granted two extensions to the company, the government ordered the plant closed, pending compliance. Even though the smelter is now shut down because of bankruptcy, the mere filing of the ISDS case assisted Renco in its efforts to evade cases brought in U.S. courts against the firm on behalf of Peruvian children allegedly injured by the smelter’s emissions.

[T]he ISDS tribunal in the previously mentioned Occidental v. Ecuador case, brought under the U.S.-Ecuador BIT, ordered Ecuador’s government to pay $2.3 billion to the U.S. oil corporation – one of the largest-ever investor-state awards. The penalty imposed by the tribunal on Ecuador’s taxpayers was equivalent to the amount Ecuador spends on healthcare each year for over seven million Ecuadorians – almost half the population. The tribunal decided on the massive penalty after acknowledging that Occidental had broken the law, that the response of the Ecuadorian government (forfeiture of the firm’s investment) was lawful, and that Occidental indeed should have expected that response. But the tribunal then concocted a new obligation for the government (one not specified by the BIT itself) to respond proportionally to Occidental’s legal breach and, upon deeming themselves the arbiters of proportionality, determined that Ecuador had violated the novel investor-state obligation.

To calculate damages, the tribunal majority estimated the amount of future profits that Occidental would have received from full exploitation of the oil reserves it had forfeited due to its legal breach, including profits from not-yet-discovered reserves. The tribunal majority then substantially increased the penalty imposed on Ecuador by ordering the government to pay compound interest. It has become increasingly common for investor-state tribunals to order governments to pay compound rather than simple interest, often requiring that the interest be retroactively compounded from the moment of the challenged action or policy to the date of the tribunal’s decision, and prospectively until the date of payment.136 In the Occidental v. Ecuador case, these interest requirements alone cost the Ecuadorian government more than $500 million.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/10/public-citizen-top-ten-pernicious-investor-state-dispute-settlement-lawsuits.html

Do you think all of these cases are irrelevant? I want to point out a couple of things: Brazil will not sign a trade agreement with the ISDS in place. Never have. They also haven't suffered for that position and have plenty of foreign trade. Why is the ISDS important to have in place in countries with sound judicial systems?

http://www.vox.com/2015/2/28/8124057/investor-state-dispute-settlement-elizabeth-warren


Justice Denied: Dispute Settlement in
Latin America's Trade and
Investment Agreements
Michael Mortimore



https://ase.tufts.edu/gdae/Pubs/rp/DP27Mortimore_StanleyOct09.pdf

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Obama and the TPP: Poll #1 [View all] MannyGoldstein May 2015 OP
He fought for health care harder. hrmjustin May 2015 #1
That is the one. Rex May 2015 #2
slight revision ibegurpard May 2015 #3
My recollection is that most of that was behind the scenes deals MannyGoldstein May 2015 #4
He fought very hard for it in public. hrmjustin May 2015 #5
Not really. He didn't even bring up single-payer and he tossed the public option aside. cui bono May 2015 #19
He didn't campaign on single payer. joshcryer May 2015 #23
Agree. cui bono May 2015 #25
The talks were protested several times. joshcryer May 2015 #29
Precisely. PDittie May 2015 #34
I admit this fight may *seem* harder than his health insurance fight magical thyme May 2015 #55
He wheeled and dealed for mandated corporate health insurance. SMC22307 May 2015 #6
Like how he tirelessly lobbied Joe Liberman on the one vote needed for a public option? pa28 May 2015 #11
You believe lieberman? i don't! hrmjustin May 2015 #12
How about the New York Times then? pa28 May 2015 #14
Don't trust them either but you made your point. hrmjustin May 2015 #15
So is there some evidence to the contrary? Jim Lane May 2015 #21
Not just Lieberman, but any Senator who wasn't already on board??? Scuba May 2015 #36
Good point. Did he tell Blanche Lincoln he had his eye on the primary? Jim Lane May 2015 #50
^^^^^^^That right there^^^^^^^^^^ BrotherIvan May 2015 #16
Yes, thank you. I keep hearing we don't have a public option because Lieberman. pa28 May 2015 #18
I disagree. joshcryer May 2015 #22
Not against his own party, though Scootaloo May 2015 #27
not even close. Here: cali May 2015 #37
You are correct. If he had fought this hard for any progressive idea I would have been proud of him. GoneFishin May 2015 #56
He's never had so many Democrats misrepresenting the facts. Hoyt May 2015 #7
For their own gain? You are delusional if you believe that about them. cui bono May 2015 #20
Absolutely-- Warren and Sanders (and Brown) in the Senate Art_from_Ark May 2015 #46
Actually, Warren and Sanders are abssolutely right on the TPP. JDPriestly May 2015 #30
I simply believe it will he good for our future, not to mention other parts of the world. Hoyt May 2015 #32
How has NAFTA worked "long term"? BillZBubb May 2015 #53
You claim that Democrats like Warren and Sanders are "misrepresenting the facts" Art_from_Ark May 2015 #47
Other things? Usually he sent someone else out to fight for those. Puzzledtraveller May 2015 #8
I'd say he's discovered the bully pulpit in his fight for TPP fast track. pa28 May 2015 #9
I don't see him particularly "fighting" for TPP like he did for ACA Recursion May 2015 #10
That's a fair portrayal. joshcryer May 2015 #24
you think it's fair to call people who oppose the tpp "alarmists"? cali May 2015 #38
It's fair to say he's not fighting. joshcryer May 2015 #41
"alarmists"? Do you have any experience with, say, the NAFTA trade courts? JDPriestly May 2015 #31
The ones AFL-CIO keep winning against foreign governments in? Recursion May 2015 #33
This dispute resolution thing is such a red herring. joshcryer May 2015 #35
not really. do some research. You do know that the ISDS process doesn't just apply to cali May 2015 #39
Name one single ISDS case the US has lost. joshcryer May 2015 #40
One more time. I didn't claim any such thing- though there have been some cali May 2015 #44
I don't see a problem. joshcryer May 2015 #45
and... we are done. One liners. cali May 2015 #48
Sure, make it personal. joshcryer May 2015 #49
1. there is a first time for everything magical thyme May 2015 #58
IDSD has no appeals method for labor or governments to countersue magical thyme May 2015 #57
"ISDS" isn't a thing. It's a category of intl law. The question was about NAFTA Recursion May 2015 #59
the tread topic is TPP. The NAFTA question, which you didn't answer, was re: your hands on magical thyme May 2015 #60
and the ISDS process has been used successfully cali May 2015 #61
But you personally have no experience with them, do you? JDPriestly May 2015 #62
No though my wife has Recursion May 2015 #63
I have too. That's why I do not like the free trade agreements that set up special courts. JDPriestly May 2015 #64
So, how would you like treaties to be enforced then? Recursion May 2015 #65
Countries could sue each other. JDPriestly May 2015 #66
Calling Sen. Warren untruthful isn't fighting? MannyGoldstein May 2015 #43
Well, he did twist arms for Cronybus/DEregulating Wall Street, woo me with science May 2015 #13
I think he fights hard in campaigns BrotherIvan May 2015 #17
I find it very telling that you wrote "public" with "fighting." joshcryer May 2015 #26
I've only seen fighting about how hard he's fighting for it. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #28
His true colors are on full display. polichick May 2015 #42
Is GitMo still open for business? KansDem May 2015 #51
Calling Elizabeth Warren out is a ploy, as many of his moves are . n/t orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #52
And I hope she doubles down on her criticism of this bad deal. BillZBubb May 2015 #54
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