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notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)

38. it is when it's your goal

Reply to Coventina (Reply #17)

Tue May 12, 2015, 05:27 PM

May 2015

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So it looks as though Pam Geller really did want to provoke a violent response to her little event [View all] Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 OP

When you erect a lightning rod, lightning will eventually strike. KittyWampus May 2015 #1

Pretty much so. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #2

Not if the sky is blue Yorktown May 2015 #114

"By poking at the hornet's nest moondust May 2015 #3

It's the most poisonous sort of vigilanteism - create a situation that's ripe for mass murder leveymg May 2015 #4

at the very least. notadmblnd May 2015 #8

She gave a can of gasoline to a pyromaniac. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #13

Your analogy would be more apt criticizing someone who built a home... trotsky May 2015 #138

Um, no. Geller's behavior went far beyond that. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #144

well, duh notadmblnd May 2015 #5

You would think so kcr May 2015 #6

she's an ugly hateful person notadmblnd May 2015 #10

The penalty for ugly bigotry isn't death. Nevernose May 2015 #34

I don't recall saying that she deserved to die, so why are you addressing me with that remark? notadmblnd May 2015 #35

Because you seem to think she bears responsibility Nevernose May 2015 #37

She absolutely should bear some responsibility for inciting violence. notadmblnd May 2015 #39

She absolutely is a terrible human being Nevernose May 2015 #56

If they held the convention in a Mosque and advocated and inspired notadmblnd May 2015 #126

Seriously? NobodyHere May 2015 #69

What she did wasn't about free speech and I don't appreciate her hiding behind the 1st Amendment notadmblnd May 2015 #71

How does one 'hide' behind an inalienable right? Oktober May 2015 #74

By claiming that 1A was her motive for having her "drawing contest" notadmblnd May 2015 #77

Why does that matter? Oktober May 2015 #80

Do you understand that the SCOTUS has defined limitations to that inalienable right? stevenleser May 2015 #123

Please explain how she went beyond the protections of the 1st.. Oktober May 2015 #125

I don't think she did. But that wasn't the initial question you asked. nt stevenleser May 2015 #127

Well played sir! JustAnotherGen May 2015 #203

They killed no one. One security guard was shot in the ankle which did not kill him notadmblnd May 2015 #179

I never said they killed anyone. NobodyHere May 2015 #183

She got What She Wanted itcfish May 2015 #174

precisely. notadmblnd May 2015 #176

Her intentions are pure, alright. 3catwoman3 May 2015 #85

Some people insisted she was only doing it for "free speech". nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #7

I know, I saw them here notadmblnd May 2015 #9

She probably didn't do it for free speech Yorktown May 2015 #115

Creating the grounds for violence is not a good way to start such a discussion. nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #199

You put your cart in front of the oxen Yorktown May 2015 #218

Like I've said, what she did is not a Free Speech issue, its a Felony 951-Riverside May 2015 #11

So if some violent Mormon extremists threaten to bomb "The Book of Mormon" show on Broadway, Nye Bevan May 2015 #12

A better analogy would be burning a cross on a black family's lawn. jobycom May 2015 #130

So anytime someone draws Muhammed, the police should investigate them Nye Bevan May 2015 #134

Fascism, it's what's for dinner Telcontar May 2015 #116

Do you feel that anti-war protesters have the power to oppress in this country? jobycom May 2015 #133

The terrorist shooters still get 100 percent of the blame seveneyes May 2015 #14

No one's saying they aren't to blame. Of course they are to blame. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #15

Only one party to blame in this case seveneyes May 2015 #18

Far from it. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #20

what an idiot, she was lucky this time....her ignorance is profound Demonaut May 2015 #16

What Pam Geller wanted was irrelevant. Coventina May 2015 #17

But if you read her statement, the whole "draw them out" comment.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #19

The quote doesn't make clear if that was her goal ahead of time. Coventina May 2015 #22

True, but holding it in Garland.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #24

You aren't going to get me to defend her actions. I think she's vile and loathsome. Coventina May 2015 #25

The shooters weren't from Garland or even Texas. tammywammy May 2015 #49

That's actually a notable point. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #195

It doesn't matter... Oktober May 2015 #75

No one actually did lay a finger on her. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #196

We've had this conversation at least three times... Oktober May 2015 #202

And you've refused to listen to the facts at least three times. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #206

Geller acted in much the same way as Sarah Palin. guillaumeb May 2015 #78

She set up a bunch of dumb right wingers ... JoePhilly May 2015 #27

Maybe they should sue for part of her book royalties. Coventina May 2015 #30

They aren't bright enough to think of that. JoePhilly May 2015 #120

Let's not forget that in this case they were all "our crazies." Coventina May 2015 #131

Its an overlapping venn diagram. JoePhilly May 2015 #139

But the saddest part is that it's the same god!! That's part of what drives me crazy about the Coventina May 2015 #140

They like different parts of the trilogy. JoePhilly May 2015 #145

But a civil case is here, I think. She knew this could happen, she admits it was her goal randys1 May 2015 #28

Kudos to them if they can make it happen. Coventina May 2015 #31

The civil lawsuit would fail hardluck May 2015 #91

it is when it's your goal notadmblnd May 2015 #38

Nope. If I ask you to kill me, and you do, you are still a murderer. The law is not going to care Coventina May 2015 #40

yes I would be notadmblnd May 2015 #41

Aren't you saying that she was basically asking for an attack? Coventina May 2015 #43

she was begging for it! notadmblnd May 2015 #45

Asking/begging doesn't matter. It's the person who takes ACTION that bears the responsibility for Coventina May 2015 #47

I did not say they were not responsible. I said she bears responsibility too notadmblnd May 2015 #50

Not at all comparable scenarios. As the parent, you are legally responsible for your child. Coventina May 2015 #51

How are they not comparable? notadmblnd May 2015 #54

If the driver was following the rules of the road and did not see the child s/he would not be Coventina May 2015 #129

I never said they wer not responsible. However, Ms Geller is responsible for baiting them even notadmblnd May 2015 #148

Was Salman Rushdie baiting the Islamic world when he wrote "The Satanic Verses"? Coventina May 2015 #167

did Mr Rusdie advocate for violence against the Islamic world? notadmblnd May 2015 #169

Did any of the cartoons advocate for violence against the Islamic world? Coventina May 2015 #170

Ms Geller and her guest do. She inspires people to commit atrocities against Muslims notadmblnd May 2015 #224

Which atrocities has she inspired? Coventina May 2015 #225

Pamela Geller waving the bloody shirt. backscatter712 May 2015 #21

This message was self-deleted by its author Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #23

how someone like her can fool ANYONE is DISTURBING Skittles May 2015 #26

So what Kalidurga May 2015 #29

And every Muslim in the US did not attack Geller's hate-fest either. notadmblnd May 2015 #44

You want to draw them out, Pam? Then you go set up an easel and start drawing your own cartoons. tanyev May 2015 #32

Was there ever any doubt? cbayer May 2015 #33

She was not a victim because someone else took the trash out before they could shoot her seveneyes May 2015 #59

She was not a victim because she made sure someone would get them before they got in cbayer May 2015 #119

Duck Dynasty Thinking n2doc May 2015 #36

And this is one reason why the British won't let her visit. Ilsa May 2015 #42

stir up violent shit? seveneyes May 2015 #46

I agree with your point, but I must point out that Muhammad is fairly recent, and well documented. Coventina May 2015 #48

If they believe her intention is to purposefully antagonize Ilsa May 2015 #52

I guess it's their prerogative to define stirring violent shit seveneyes May 2015 #53

really? you think what she does is about about drawing cartoons? notadmblnd May 2015 #57

Education. This person did nothing to warrant anyone to start shooting seveneyes May 2015 #58

there are none so blind as those who refuse to see notadmblnd May 2015 #61

Logic trumps misdirected reasoning seveneyes May 2015 #62

Well, you know what they say about opinions ....everybody has one notadmblnd May 2015 #63

Holy Trash seveneyes May 2015 #64

What is the "faith of ignorance"? notadmblnd May 2015 #66

faith of ignorance seveneyes May 2015 #67

You've been taking dancing lessons I see notadmblnd May 2015 #70

Faith is singular in a logical world seveneyes May 2015 #81

your response has nothing to do with what I asked. notadmblnd May 2015 #84

That files that under "No Shit, Sherlock". 99Forever May 2015 #55

You would think so. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #197

I hear you there. 99Forever May 2015 #213

Geller:Now that we are all assembled here ashling May 2015 #60

Ahh, let's compare people to thoughtless insects! X_Digger May 2015 #92

I'm not dehumanizing anyone ashling May 2015 #103

Poster does not understand a metaphor. nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #200

So what are you saying about whacking a hornet's nest? Humanist_Activist May 2015 #209

Yes, you are. You're relieving them of agency (and responsibility.) n/t X_Digger May 2015 #217

I'd like the record to show 2 people WERE killed justiceischeap May 2015 #65

Those defending Ms Geller don't care.. They don't see the dead men as human beings notadmblnd May 2015 #68

I see precisely the opposite, its the criticizers who seem to not expect at least... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #79

The criticizers of who? Ms. Geller? notadmblnd May 2015 #83

Not her, the shooters, having Geller "share the blame" while using inaccurate... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #86

I disagree. she is every bit as radicalized as they were notadmblnd May 2015 #87

And that's irrelevant to the discussion, people either bear responsibility for their actions... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #88

I agree and right now she is not bearing any responsibility for those she put in danger notadmblnd May 2015 #89

"manipulated into committing violent acts", Uhm, how? Blasphemy, committing idolatry... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #90

you don't think that people who are radicalized by religion or idealology have diminished capacity? notadmblnd May 2015 #93

Only if brainwashed or heavily manipulated by that ideology/religion... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #95

You don't think she's brainwashed or heavily manipulated by her ideology? notadmblnd May 2015 #96

Does she go out and shoot people? How would she be held accountable at this time? Humanist_Activist May 2015 #97

No. notadmblnd May 2015 #98

Yes, because he committed an overt act, hiring someone to kill someone else... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #100

My mother would slap you herself. notadmblnd May 2015 #101

So you demonstrate that your mother is willing to use violence in response to insults? Humanist_Activist May 2015 #105

Yes I was. I had a horrible childhood and I reject how my parents behaved notadmblnd May 2015 #124

if a violent death results, yes both the inspired and the one who inspired the violence bear blame notadmblnd May 2015 #102

So basically all victims of violence brought it on themselves? Humanist_Activist May 2015 #106

She is not s victim. She is an instigator. she has admitted this in the article in the OP notadmblnd May 2015 #122

It doesn't fucking matter, I don't care how many insults are made or in what context... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #151

It's a rediculous question and has nothing to do with what Ms. Geller did. notadmblnd May 2015 #154

Of course it has to do with what Geller did... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #190

your comment below has nothing to do with Ms. Geller notadmblnd May 2015 #193

Who is an innocent victim? Define them, please. Humanist_Activist May 2015 #205

I'm not familiar with those people and you provided no context notadmblnd May 2015 #207

I do acknowledge it, and I dismiss it as irrelevant. Humanist_Activist May 2015 #208

No, if you are too lazy to provide context in your posts, notadmblnd May 2015 #211

OK, under what context would it be acceptable to attack someone physically? Humanist_Activist May 2015 #212

I never ever said t was ok to attack anyone pysically notadmblnd May 2015 #214

No if she were as radicalized as them she would go out and murder people. CBGLuthier May 2015 #108

She is every bit as radicalized notadmblnd May 2015 #121

that is what I believe too Skittles May 2015 #107

I still have yet to see anyone defend Pam Geller. trotsky May 2015 #136

I think that If she decides to do it in the middle of an Islamic enclave notadmblnd May 2015 #146

Wait, Garland TX is an "Islamic enclave"? trotsky May 2015 #147

yes, Garland Texas is home to one of the largest Muslim populations in the US notadmblnd May 2015 #160

"one of the largest" - how big? What percentage? trotsky May 2015 #164

It's not the official US census, but I think the source is reliable notadmblnd May 2015 #168

The article doesn't seem to support your assertion. trotsky May 2015 #171

Oh c'mon Garland is a suburb of the Dallas Fort worth area, notadmblnd May 2015 #173

then do yoour homework and prove my assertion wrong. notadmblnd May 2015 #175

That's not how the burden of proof works. trotsky May 2015 #181

Last I checked, DU was not a court of law notadmblnd May 2015 #186

Ms Geller was not exercising her 1st amendment rights notadmblnd May 2015 #149

So what? trotsky May 2015 #150

If those organizing the event was advocating, inciting and inspiring violence- yes, they should be notadmblnd May 2015 #153

But how can one be responsible for all possible reactions? trotsky May 2015 #158

yes, I do think the gallery bears responsibility notadmblnd May 2015 #162

Wow, that's incredible. trotsky May 2015 #165

I haven't proposed any sort of society. notadmblnd May 2015 #172

Well thanks I guess. trotsky May 2015 #180

have a nice afternoon. notadmblnd May 2015 #187

America's sweetheart GeorgeGist May 2015 #72

What she wanted is irrelevant to whether free speech is at issue. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #73

Free speech wasn't at issue in Geller's case. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #198

I dont get the feeling she gives a shit about "criticism". Criticism is attention. Im sure she loves Warren DeMontague May 2015 #201

I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you. nt scarletwoman May 2015 #76

Doesn't matter, she doesn't deserve death for what she did. n/t Humanist_Activist May 2015 #82

What she wanted has exactly fuck-all to do with whether or not the event was protected speech. X_Digger May 2015 #94

Free speech is but an ancillary issue to Geller's behavior. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #194

It's speech regardless of motive or intent. X_Digger May 2015 #220

Didn't she get the security guard killed? n/t. Ken Burch May 2015 #99

No oberliner May 2015 #117

Am I alone in never thinking this was anything but provocation? haikugal May 2015 #104

She was askin' for it... Oktober May 2015 #111

Huh? She wanted something to happen that would prove her point.. haikugal May 2015 #112

Hey, I'm just going with what you said... Oktober May 2015 #113

You need to read what I said... haikugal May 2015 #142

so why not react the way LGBT do to the Phelps Trash ? JI7 May 2015 #109

That's been my point, too. Mocking and ridicule have made Westboro a giant joke. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #110

I'll come back later to see if the OP manages to respond to that very relevant question. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #141

I'm not saying they shouldn't have. That's not the point here. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #155

Drawing a cartoon should not be a situation that creates violence oberliner May 2015 #118

Absolutely. But that's besides the point. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #157

Would you support something like what Molly Norris did? oberliner May 2015 #189

Norris did not create a centralized physical event. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #191

Actually, this is exactly how the FBI creates fake terror-attacks. DetlefK May 2015 #128

The anti-Muslim bigotry on this thread is repulsive. trotsky May 2015 #132

Yep. Those who refer to "poking the hornet's nest" are comparing Muslims to angry insects (nt) Nye Bevan May 2015 #135

On other threads I've seen them compared to "sharks" and even "bears." trotsky May 2015 #137

You completely miss the point of a metaphor. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #143

I understand perfectly well what the underlying theme is. trotsky May 2015 #159

You see, I don't think you really do. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #163

Nope, I get the point. trotsky May 2015 #166

Danger = a shooting or violent event. Danger =/= a religion or entire group of people. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #178

Oh, so it could have been anyone that might be provoked to violence... trotsky May 2015 #182

Again, you missed the point of the metaphors. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #184

Sorry man, guess I'm just really, really stupid. trotsky May 2015 #185

But... Dr. Strange May 2015 #216

Not necessarily. randome May 2015 #156

It's comparing a group of human beings to thoughtless animals. trotsky May 2015 #161

Yes. Dr. Strange May 2015 #215

Of course she did. She incited violence. The fact that she technically is allowed to be coy about it GoneFishin May 2015 #152

That's exactly what I said when she claimed victimhood. Free speech my rosy roseola. Hekate May 2015 #177

So what? What she did was still protected free speech. Goblinmonger May 2015 #188

And that's a secondary, incidential issue. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #192

If what she did is all that is needed to provoke violence, then the ideology... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #210

She held a draw the prophet cartoon contest. Goblinmonger May 2015 #221

Point to a post in this thread that states it would deny her right to exercise 1A rights notadmblnd May 2015 #219

Um, the OP Goblinmonger May 2015 #222

her agenda was not about exercising her 1st amendment right notadmblnd May 2015 #223

Her agenda was to do take part in speech that is protected Goblinmonger May 2015 #226

doubt she will ever be able to draw a crowd of families and kids again to her next hatefest. Sunlei May 2015 #204