General Discussion

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

150. Many of us fear that we do indeed grasp the "why"

Thu May 14, 2015, 08:00 PM

May 2015

If members of Congress, and various NGOs that have expertise in particular areas (environmental organizations, labor unions, EFF, etc.) were given a full and fair opportunity to study and analyze this sprawling proposal, they'd be able to point out even more problems with it, and thereby lessen its chances for approval.

By contrast, if tight deadlines are artificially imposed, there's more chance that the proponents, who've had full access to the negotiations for years now, will be able to railroad it through.

If you put your faith in an alternative rationale, please feel free to articulate it. I've raised this question on DU more than once and never gotten a straight answer. All I ever hear about is the no-amendments part of fast track, not the "fast" part itself.

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The 13 Democrats who just voted to move to debate on trade deal. [View all] madfloridian May 2015 OP

The usual suspects. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2015 #1

Indeed beltanefauve May 2015 #8

I wrote Feinstein a couple days ago. Not that she cares. C Moon May 2015 #65

I wrote her off years ago.. frylock May 2015 #72

Feinstein needs to go... TDale313 May 2015 #74

She should have been voted out years ago denbot May 2015 #95

She is so bad that she almost makes Chris Christie look good! truedelphi May 2015 #120

Not surprised in the least catchnrelease May 2015 #91

Wyden is a bit of an outlier. Maedhros May 2015 #12

he is from Nike land aftera all... themaguffin May 2015 #19

Nike Land & the Timber Industry bvar22 May 2015 #40

Timber tennstar May 2015 #71

Wyden voted for NAFTA as well Angel Martin May 2015 #98

He sure did! fredamae May 2015 #114

Who do you think owns most of the North West timber/lumbering companies? INdemo May 2015 #100

And GP Mills n/t fredamae May 2015 #115

You know how insane that sounds? zeemike May 2015 #103

The Ports along the OR Coast fredamae May 2015 #119

Exactly! And both Murray & Cantwell voted "Yea" for NAFTA countryjake May 2015 #123

And yet Jeff Merkley did not vote for it while both of the Washington Senators did and Wyden. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #106

Boeing pscot May 2015 #121

Hopefully, DeFazio will run. n/t. Ken Burch May 2015 #134

Steve Novick was Merkley's opponent in the primary. Maedhros May 2015 #137

I thought the same thing before I read your post. n/t Avalux May 2015 #29

Yes it is. Enthusiast May 2015 #122

I have to say that I was a bit shocked to see the yeoman6987 May 2015 #157

Ah, the usual suspects. The Third Way/Blue Dog/New Democrat usual suspects. AtomicKitten May 2015 #2

Actually the two senators from Washington the State don't usually vote with rhett o rick May 2015 #30

That's a legitimate distinction. AtomicKitten May 2015 #49

Washington tennstar May 2015 #75

I thought Sen Cantwell was getting better in the last few years but she does have rhett o rick May 2015 #113

You're from Olympia? Ken Burch May 2015 #138

He would have lost Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 2015 #141

Cantwell and Murray always Angel Martin May 2015 #101

So this vote started the debate Cali_Democrat May 2015 #3

Yes, let's. madfloridian May 2015 #5

All debate on the Senate floor is public. Cali_Democrat May 2015 #6

Great, when do we get to see the deal, in print, so we can know what's in it? haikugal May 2015 #10

"TPA requires the administration make any agreement public for at least 60 days before entering... Cali_Democrat May 2015 #11

So they had 10 years to hide everything and we have 60 days to read and research...sounds haikugal May 2015 #13

You get a countdown of 60 days to read 150,000 pages of legalese. fasttense May 2015 #55

Not to mention that is is a done deal anyway once TPA is in place. That's why they pushed so hard GoneFishin May 2015 #62

Well if nothing else we'll know how and who is screwing us.. haikugal May 2015 #69

The whole trade agreement, or just parts. madfloridian May 2015 #21

You're confused Cali_Democrat May 2015 #25

You're confused. You actually believe that TPA is not the end of the story. After TPA it's a done GoneFishin May 2015 #67

Any finalized trade agreement will have to be submitted to Congress for an up-or-down vote. nt Cali_Democrat May 2015 #86

So what? We don't have the votes to stop a bad deal even if magically every Democrat held. TheKentuckian May 2015 #146

"We don't have the votes to stop a bad deal" Cali_Democrat May 2015 #148

The debate is a show, where is your list of Republicans that are looking out for workers and TheKentuckian May 2015 #165

It's open to the public for 60 days before and up/down vote. Agschmid May 2015 #47

18,000 pages in 60 days questionseverything May 2015 #24

You are exactly right, with some added scariousity, which is that they have had 10 years to play out GoneFishin May 2015 #76

So now the complaint, now that the agreement is public as intended, is that it is too long to read?? So much Fred Sanders May 2015 #118

No, the complaint is about imposing an artificial deadline on reading and considering it. Jim Lane May 2015 #124

The history of fast track should be researched by folks who fail to grasp the "why". Fred Sanders May 2015 #129

Many of us fear that we do indeed grasp the "why" Jim Lane May 2015 #150

current admin refuses to prosecute war criminals questionseverything May 2015 #179

I agree, they will skim the surface and distract, or try to. haikugal May 2015 #15

Can't debate tennstar May 2015 #78

The title of the article is "Senate votes to start trade debate " Cali_Democrat May 2015 #82

Which would give Obama what he wants...he can approve it and congress can't change it.. madfloridian May 2015 #93

If Congress doesn't like the trade agreement, they can reject it outright through an up-or-down vote Cali_Democrat May 2015 #105

If the Republicans don't like it (which they do) they can reject it out right TheKentuckian May 2015 #149

So it's the make up of Congress that you're objecting to. Cali_Democrat May 2015 #153

Why would you force such an issue? Fucking cookoo for Coco Puffs thought process there. TheKentuckian May 2015 #177

I'm letting my two senators (Cantwell and Murray) know that their votes decide my vote. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #4

And they will use the same worn out Wellstone ruled May 2015 #7

It ain't me babe ... GeorgeGist May 2015 #9

they represent corporate america, not you, so that statement is actually true nt msongs May 2015 #16

That's the statement that I noticed as well ybbor May 2015 #112

Ugh. we have to hope that cali May 2015 #14

When Democrats make up their mind that they are "free traders"... kentuck May 2015 #17

Well said, kentuck. madfloridian May 2015 #20

I liked Colorado so much better when we were a Democratic state world wide wally May 2015 #34

Me too, Wally... kentuck May 2015 #52

Yeah, I called Bennet but knew it would do no good. Autumn May 2015 #142

the "people" we represent.... Triana May 2015 #18

Primary opponents needed for all of them. NaturalHigh May 2015 #22

"assist U.S. workers displaced by foreign competition." Baitball Blogger May 2015 #23

What a bunch of fools. They don't know what the TPP is about and what it will JDPriestly May 2015 #26

States with more export-driven economies are generally more favorable geek tragedy May 2015 #48

The Democratic Party Would Triangulate It's Own Mother octoberlib May 2015 #27

"once they established that they could safely take minorities and labor for granted" madfloridian May 2015 #172

Awww Tim come on! underpants May 2015 #28

Tim and Warner both! WTF! nt Nay May 2015 #33

yes...and I wrote and called both of their offices. Duppers May 2015 #108

Tim Kaine is a good guy, Warner we know. WTH!? appalachiablue May 2015 #151

I do not understand why this is bad, to debate it. I've not been following each little part, please uppityperson May 2015 #31

With fast track... sendero May 2015 #36

OK, that makes sense, thanks uppityperson May 2015 #39

So sorry for your loss. dgibby May 2015 #73

Thank you, it is odd uppityperson May 2015 #79

~hugs you~ Marrah_G May 2015 #171

With fast track how many days would they have to debate? Agschmid May 2015 #46

I think there.. sendero May 2015 #54

That's a fine amount of time. Agschmid May 2015 #57

All over summer....and how busy are our representatives really? haikugal May 2015 #77

The time period .. sendero May 2015 #80

Good point, we never had a chance. haikugal May 2015 #90

Those opposed to TPP this think this will grease the wheels to approval.. DCBob May 2015 #38

The news is even with 100% solidarity among Democrats (right) we don't have the votes TheKentuckian May 2015 #159

Maybe, Just Maybe . . . Gamecock Lefty May 2015 #32

Of course they do.. sendero May 2015 #53

I knew Cantwell was one. She has to go! Phlem May 2015 #35

This message was self-deleted by its author rurallib May 2015 #60

Seems like Washington tennstar May 2015 #96

Uh Huh Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 2015 #143

Any F*ing non 3rd way Democrat and Phlem May 2015 #147

Washington's a trade dependent state Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 2015 #180

Washington State is also a big exporter of.....Tech Jobs too! Phlem May 2015 #182

Of course Claire McCaskill (Mo.) Gore1FL May 2015 #37

They ALL need to go. nt TBF May 2015 #41

Oh they do? Agschmid May 2015 #44

Do you know anything about Shaheen - TBF May 2015 #51

Well if it was a republican we wouldn't have a press release... Agschmid May 2015 #56

You completely ignored what I said in order to make an TBF May 2015 #64

I didn't ignore what you said, and I didn't start the snark. Agschmid May 2015 #66

And you still refuse to answer the question: TBF May 2015 #68

She doesn't vote the same that's the damn answer. Agschmid May 2015 #70

I care about many issues ~ TBF May 2015 #83

You seem to care about one. Agschmid May 2015 #85

I'm just letting folks know about this issue TBF May 2015 #88

There are lots of important issues, and having a democrat in office is important. Agschmid May 2015 #94

And I am sick of the shit TBF May 2015 #104

I am not a republican, and I certainly am not a third way guy. Agschmid May 2015 #109

Then why in the world would you support TPP - TBF May 2015 #161

+100000000 Third Way propaganda woo me with science May 2015 #125

Jeanne Shaheen... Top 3rd Way Conspirator! Agschmid May 2015 #135

How about this? BainsBane May 2015 #136

I'm a co-precinct leader down here - TBF May 2015 #160

I've helped get the head of the congressional progressive caucus elected BainsBane May 2015 #163

So I'm not allowed to have an opinion because I happen to TBF May 2015 #164

I didn't say you weren't allowed to have an opinon BainsBane May 2015 #166

You are implying that Texas dems are happy about TBF May 2015 #168

No, that's not what I'm implying BainsBane May 2015 #176

Blaming the victims remains popular I see - TBF May 2015 #181

Third way like Franken and Keith Ellison? BainsBane May 2015 #185

*Shaheen. Agschmid May 2015 #42

Well, that's the core of the "democratic" wing of the Corporate Party. n2doc May 2015 #43

Manchin has always voted Angel Martin May 2015 #110

Yep, my two fake Democratic Senators are there. CharlotteVale May 2015 #45

DiFi...of course! SoapBox May 2015 #50

Yep. She really needs to fucking go. GoneFishin May 2015 #61

The usual prostitutes. GoneFishin May 2015 #58

Quit insulting prostitutes, at least they make an honest living... eom Purveyor May 2015 #84

Yeah. And it's no surprise when you get screwed. GoneFishin May 2015 #178

Rotating villains. woo me with science May 2015 #59

^^^This^^^ haikugal May 2015 #89

But always just enough... kentuck May 2015 #99

Nailed it. zeemike May 2015 #111

rotating villains is the reality Angel Martin May 2015 #116

Thank you. 840high May 2015 #167

Thank you. K&R nt TBF May 2015 #169

Sigh, really California? Utopian Leftist May 2015 #63

Feinstein, of course randys1 May 2015 #81

Monsanto, Goldman Sachs, Exxon, Citibank, Boeing, Xi............. Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #87

WE HAVE turbinetree May 2015 #92

Much better than republicans because . . . I'm not sure. They seem like a liability to the party Ed Suspicious May 2015 #97

I seriously hope there is a challenge to all 13 emsimon33 May 2015 #102

Crap, I expected Warner, but Kaine too? peacebird May 2015 #107

I would have done the same thing. I don't do filibusters. bluestateguy May 2015 #117

Murray and Cantwell are traitors and will never receive my vote again LittleBlue May 2015 #126

So you're voting Republican next time? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 2015 #145

The second LittleBlue May 2015 #155

They're not getting my vote either. liberal_at_heart May 2015 #184

Democrats you say? 99Forever May 2015 #127

seems to be that... chillfactor May 2015 #128

uuuuyggghh DonCoquixote May 2015 #130

I would call them Dinos DonCoquixote May 2015 #131

Congress is like a predictabe and embarrasingly bad sulphurdunn May 2015 #132

No surprises in that list. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #133

An eclectic mix, looking out for a trade bill that promises so much to so few. Octafish May 2015 #139

Diane good-for-nothing Feinstein, dammit! mike_c May 2015 #140

Thanks for naming names! nt City Lights May 2015 #144

Sell Outs To The 1% - One And All cantbeserious May 2015 #152

I agree - although I was killed for saying so. TBF May 2015 #162

Thank you for your posts in this thread dreamnightwind May 2015 #170

Ron weyden and Patty Murray? Isn't that a surprise? still_one May 2015 #154

Good to see some folks doing what's right for country, even if some constituents Hoyt May 2015 #156

It's not like trade didn't exist before TPP ... Trajan May 2015 #158

Is it going to come down to hoping Japan and Malaysia bow out... SMC22307 May 2015 #173

From Salon. TPA and secrecy. Only after Obama gets fast track will it be open supposedly. madfloridian May 2015 #174

Don't miss nadin's post about privatization of post office and TPP madfloridian May 2015 #175

Cantwell and Murray. Damn. That is disappointing. Just what kind of assistance is going to help our liberal_at_heart May 2015 #183