General Discussion

TM99

(8,352 posts)

139. I have addressed your point before in posts

Thu May 14, 2015, 08:25 PM

May 2015

but it rarely generates any discussion.

http://publicautonomy.org/2014/01/27/the-rise-of-the-post-new-left-political-vocabulary/

The Post New Left political vocabulary is incredibly different than the New Left vocabulary of the 60's through the early 90's. Coalition building is just not a part of this new vocabulary.

And that will ultimately fuck us all. It is all about my issues, my minority group, and my safe space. It is no longer about looking for commonalities of oppression. Instead there are lectures on privilege, micro-aggressions and the like. I am probably one of the few minorities on DU that recognizes that this new language is causing more problems than it solves.

On the most basic levels, we have all got areas where we have been abused, hurt, discriminated against, and fear for our economic and physical safety. Some of us have had it more than others. But it should not be a pissing contest, but rather an empathic way for all of us to find commonalities and fight the oppression.

And I completely agree that right now that problem and insecurity is economic. If you are not a part of 1% or even the 10%, you are economically unsafe and oppressed.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

252 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Can We Have A Toughtful/Respectful Discussion Of Civil Rights Versus Income Inequality ??? [View all] WillyT May 2015 OP

Do you want me to bore you nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #1

Yes... Bore Me Please !!! WillyT May 2015 #3

Well here is some info straight from the U.S Census Bureau nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #6

Thank You For That !!! WillyT May 2015 #9

I spend way too much quality time with this crap nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #12

I love George Carlin, but... NuclearDem May 2015 #2

You're Gonna Have To Elaborate... You've Never Heard Of Divide And Conquer ??? WillyT May 2015 #5

Yes, I've heard of the divide and rule criticism of identity politics NuclearDem May 2015 #13

See... That's Interesting... My First Political Activism Began With The Briggs Initiative In CA... WillyT May 2015 #17

So in your coalition... GummyBearz May 2015 #19

Nope, only ones not welcome are strawmen. NuclearDem May 2015 #23

I guess you only voted for obama's black half then? GummyBearz May 2015 #24

Oh, that reminds me, no sockpuppets either. NuclearDem May 2015 #28

+1...nt SidDithers May 2015 #48

You have a strange sense of what is funny. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #38

But at least we know them by their fruits, or some shit like that randys1 May 2015 #127

yes, straight white men are welcome hfojvt May 2015 #110

who are you "carrying water" for? what does that even mean? CreekDog May 2015 #128

it means hfojvt May 2015 #189

Please say who is carrying the water vs. who is drinking it CreekDog May 2015 #197

Are you still mad because that Black woman got YOUR job? ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #135

actually that was a white woman hfojvt May 2015 #190

a white woman did not steal your job CreekDog May 2015 #207

I never said that she did hfojvt May 2015 #227

This community would support you in your struggles to find a decent job CreekDog May 2015 #231

I didn't say anything about affirmative action either hfojvt May 2015 #233

Hypothetically defensive Cal Carpenter May 2015 #148

Actually, I think some one who is concerned about class problems..... daleanime May 2015 #77

Agreed !!! WillyT May 2015 #144

Yes, supporting others ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #192

Unfortunately true, many would be allies will be seen as a divisive element.... daleanime May 2015 #203

Some of us can, others are tied up with the identity politics that the GOP are delighted distract us NYC_SKP May 2015 #4

+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! WillyT May 2015 #7

I beg to differ ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #41

We've had this difference before, allow me to clarify. NYC_SKP May 2015 #71

+1 daleanime May 2015 #78

+ 1,000,000,000 What You Said !!! WillyT May 2015 #81

Maybe I'm not understanding ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #83

Reflect on your feelings toward straight, white, (Christian) males, you'll discover a problem. NYC_SKP May 2015 #85

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #89

Since you say you don't identify with the labels: white, male and straight CreekDog May 2015 #117

You're fabulous, CreekDog! I love how you can put two and two together and end up with... NYC_SKP May 2015 #120

Maybe we can whitesplain, straightsplain or MineralMan May 2015 #133

Exactly!!!! ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #155

Suffice to say, these three words the Knights of Me cannot hear. nt betsuni May 2015 #164

Boom. nt. Starry Messenger May 2015 #106

Assuming that you are very interested in race issues, JDPriestly May 2015 #111

I have addressed your point before in posts TM99 May 2015 #139

Thanks. JDPriestly May 2015 #161

Yes, I am very interested in discussing (and working to resolve) race issues ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #188

"our common grievance" What grievances would that include? JDPriestly May 2015 #201

I think you are missing my point ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #206

Thanks for the clear answer. JDPriestly May 2015 #229

No, I am not a HRC supporter ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #232

that's a funny statement though hfojvt May 2015 #113

Okay ... If that's what you got out of what I said. 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #156

their 4th amendment rights questionseverything May 2015 #112

The random stops can happen to anyone but they happen far more rarely to white JDPriestly May 2015 #115

so if 85% of the victims of illegal stops are poc questionseverything May 2015 #191

In theory, there should be no illegal stops. JDPriestly May 2015 #200

stop and frisk is illegal because it violates the 4th amendment questionseverything May 2015 #204

Yep. Economic viability is the foundation necessary to make the demand for hifiguy May 2015 #102

They're more than intertwined, they're virtually synonymous 99th_Monkey May 2015 #8

Thank You For That !!! WillyT May 2015 #10

Excellent! Google "Hillary Clinton" "Economic Statecraft" and then see what you find. NYC_SKP May 2015 #15

Just Wow 99th_Monkey May 2015 #16

Anyone who things that major private corporations are transparent hifiguy May 2015 #107

Oh, Brother. That's a declaration of fealty to the corporate state. JDPriestly May 2015 #116

All of that is great; but, ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #45

You have a point there. 99th_Monkey May 2015 #86

Plus a brazilian, 99th Monkey!! hifiguy May 2015 #103

Does anyone remember "the Poor People's Campaign"? G_j May 2015 #11

And we could do that right now nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #14

oh yea, G_j May 2015 #20

The problem is we have been on train wreck all day nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #27

unfortunately for the community the saftey system hadn't yet been installed on that stretch of rail. G_j May 2015 #33

Rachel spent 45 minutes on that nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #34

I agree G_j May 2015 #35

Yes, that is the point nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #36

Carlin was right FLPanhandle May 2015 #18

But he was a strait white male! GummyBearz May 2015 #21

Well, to be fair, it is about time fjords had their day. NuclearDem May 2015 #31

I'm a socialist who believes in solidarity between all oppressed people DemocraticWing May 2015 #22

Me Too !!! WillyT May 2015 #26

From your original OP statement ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #47

I read the post as saying both are very important. stillwaiting May 2015 #80

THANK YOU !!! - EXACTLY !!! WillyT May 2015 #137

As Benjamin Franklin so deftly put it. hifiguy May 2015 #123

I happen to believe that racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. are tools of the capitalist system DemocraticWing May 2015 #150

It's too early to provide links JustAnotherGen May 2015 #170

I don't think it's an intentional dog whistle daredtowork May 2015 #25

+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! WillyT May 2015 #29

Well said JustAnotherGen May 2015 #171

"Blacks are overwhelmingly Democratic voters." Behind the Aegis May 2015 #172

Funny how that works BTA? JustAnotherGen May 2015 #173

Seems like lots of "giddys" got "harshed." Behind the Aegis May 2015 #199

Yep ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #209

I had to read this three times ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #208

lol, sorry it was that difficult to read! XD nt daredtowork May 2015 #210

KNR. They are interdependent issues. DirkGently May 2015 #30

I Think So Too... WillyT May 2015 #32

Dig it. The people who think the two are divisible are well off, straight white men for the most Bluenorthwest May 2015 #37

+1...thousand! Behind the Aegis May 2015 #50

The OP has often posted that 'civil rights hardly matter at all' and such. But the OP never bothers Bluenorthwest May 2015 #56

correct. posters for years that have told us sj is a minor issue, not significant, ect... now seabeyond May 2015 #58

"pushing us to the back of the bus"... NaturalHigh May 2015 #59

no. i do not bother to answer, when you ask me questions. correct. seabeyond May 2015 #60

LOL...well alrighty then. NaturalHigh May 2015 #62

i have and do answer, in detail, with those without agenda. also, having discussions with you and seabeyond May 2015 #64

"no since even bothering with that" NaturalHigh May 2015 #67

each and fuckin' every one of you are so damn predictable. hence... done seabeyond May 2015 #69

Each and every one of whom? NaturalHigh May 2015 #70

My guess would be those who constantly trivialize sexism and bigotry. JTFrog May 2015 #121

Hello JTFrog. Always good to see you. NaturalHigh May 2015 #132

+1. n/t obnoxiousdrunk May 2015 #79

I have to disagree ... a bit ... I think ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #97

They cannot be separated BrotherIvan May 2015 #39

"They cannot be separated" hifiguy May 2015 #124

I know he is no longer popular TM99 May 2015 #40

What you fail to fathom is that poverty is very often caused by discrimination, privilege dynamics Bluenorthwest May 2015 #63

"level the current playing field at all." this is how i bottom line the difference. absolutely. seabeyond May 2015 #68

Level the field. Look at the legislation such as ERA and ENDA which have languished in Congress Bluenorthwest May 2015 #72

absolutely. we had a scj tell women we are not included in 14th. we have a st senator demanding seabeyond May 2015 #74

I have always said that we do this together or we will ... sheshe2 May 2015 #134

This is why I dislike so strongly 'privilege theory'. TM99 May 2015 #75

here is the difference. i love this conversation, because it allows me to unravel the mess we live. seabeyond May 2015 #76

You are privileged enough to think you as a stranger on the internet can tell me what I think when Bluenorthwest May 2015 #92

He addressed your points here: Maedhros May 2015 #105

How did that address those points? kcr May 2015 #157

No, the bit about how civil rights (e.g. marriage equality) is part of the safety/security Maedhros May 2015 #166

If you are fearing for your safety, TM99 May 2015 #168

You do realize that it is privilege that leads to the discrimination and inequality you talk about kcr May 2015 #249

Dismiss away. TM99 May 2015 #250

Gravity is wholly unnecessary to explain why things fall! kcr May 2015 #251

Yes, because a theory TM99 May 2015 #252

This message was self-deleted by its author TM99 May 2015 #168

I read your post clearly and here are some choice quotes. TM99 May 2015 #136

Your explanation is sound. Thank you. [n/t] Maedhros May 2015 #104

Agreed. Second. nt hifiguy May 2015 #140

Oppression creates poverty gollygee May 2015 #66

Did I say anywhere that eliminating oppression was not necessary? TM99 May 2015 #73

I want to add that MLK understood that militarism was also part of the deadly equation along G_j May 2015 #42

People keep talking about this identity politics "divide and conquer" is a tool of the 1% thing ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #43

Great Point... Thank You For That !!! WillyT May 2015 #46

Reading this OP and your replies, it's really obvious that you don't fully understand the issue at Number23 May 2015 #118

Yeah, it also gives one wrist cramps from typing the same things over and over. Behind the Aegis May 2015 #51

I think you have something here ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #52

"It's classism, stupid""economic (in)justice." good point seabeyond May 2015 #55

and another. yes. also. how some can start a thread on this issue, and some are not allowed seabeyond May 2015 #54

+1. yes. nt seabeyond May 2015 #53

+1 gollygee May 2015 #65

Thank you for much more eloquently saying what I clumsily tried to upthread. NuclearDem May 2015 #82

Oh, you were quite clear in your comment. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #84

For a number of years, I worked for a homeless project that mostly helped JDPriestly May 2015 #125

Oh, how I wish white people would stop telling me about my life's experience ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #152

Do you really wnat social justice? If so, what i your plan to achieve it? JDPriestly May 2015 #160

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #177

^^Excellent Post^^ Bobbie Jo May 2015 #186

NO, repeatedly. AND everyone else is suppose to shut the fuck up. ya. nt seabeyond May 2015 #193

Yep- petty examples. But as you admit- you have no idea what it is like. bettyellen May 2015 #153

Do you think there is any way for me or someone like me to have an "idea what it is like?" JDPriestly May 2015 #159

No. There is not ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #187

What is the point of raising an issue if you don't think anything JDPriestly May 2015 #202

These questions you are asking ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #211

Well it's obvious to me that you don't come close to understanding how bad it is for women when your bettyellen May 2015 #246

now there's definitely a trend toward masking economic brutality with "but WE don't believe MisterP May 2015 #44

Whether we can or not, is there a reason to? Jim Lane May 2015 #49

first, if this is addressed, one should take a look at the definition to understand WHAT is being seabeyond May 2015 #57

Great find! ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #87

Why pit them against each other? MineralMan May 2015 #61

Because the parties find it an extremely convenient way to divide the electorate Fumesucker May 2015 #100

The Parties are not making this OP every few weeks, WillyT is doing that. Several people have asked Bluenorthwest May 2015 #212

*Not when the question is phrased as antagonistic, using "versus"* ismnotwasm May 2015 #88

Damn impressive! Behind the Aegis May 2015 #90

I should have added "Straight" ismnotwasm May 2015 #91

MLK wasn't shot until he started talking about class. nt TBF May 2015 #93

What the actual fuck? ismnotwasm May 2015 #94

What word confuses you? nt TBF May 2015 #95

Not any particular word ismnotwasm May 2015 #114

Crap like this gets said here almost every day. And most of us are sick and tired of trying to Number23 May 2015 #119

I can't even.. ismnotwasm May 2015 #130

Black posters and clued in white ones are done talking about it Number23 May 2015 #138

This is beyond shameful. ismnotwasm May 2015 #141

No. Just ignorance ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #213

+ eternity. sheshe2 May 2015 #151

+ beyond shameful eternity betsuni May 2015 #162

It's true (although he was stabbed and beaten before that). Ken Burch May 2015 #122

You all are confusing the hell out of me. ismnotwasm May 2015 #131

Look, as a female leftist I am told all the time to ignore TBF May 2015 #142

I'm not so sure about that. There's been a lot more oppression toward lovemydog May 2015 #178

Well the thing I find interesting currently TBF May 2015 #194

" the anti-police protests." that would be social justice that we humbly ask... let be a part of seabeyond May 2015 #195

I'm convinced it has to be both TBF May 2015 #221

both would be nice. it would also be nice for social to at the LEAST be on a level playing field. seabeyond May 2015 #223

Good points and I agree. nt TBF May 2015 #228

+1. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #214

Perhaps ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #215

why are women, blacks, gays defined as a fuckin wedge issue. if that does not reinforce EVERYTHING seabeyond May 2015 #224

Could that have been because those behind the killing knew ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #98

You gotta be kidding me. zappaman May 2015 #149

Gay marriage really is an argument killer here Prism May 2015 #96

Might I suggest ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #99

The division of economic vs. social justice on DU originates from socially-liberal Maedhros May 2015 #109

Really ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #216

I agree. JDPriestly May 2015 #101

This only came up because some posters started minimizing the lived experiences Starry Messenger May 2015 #108

To be honest BrotherIvan May 2015 #126

And how do ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #217

ya. let us white dudes tell you people of color, just hang on by fingernails for a while longer, seabeyond May 2015 #225

I guess I don't understand what you mean BrotherIvan May 2015 #247

My stance doesn't change. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #129

Yes apparently we can Omnith May 2015 #143

But That's Why People Come Together To Make Change... Political Parties, Coalitions, Unions... WillyT May 2015 #145

I'm not oppose affecting change. Omnith May 2015 #146

I haven't read all the comments, JEB May 2015 #147

You did this thread already back in March....a person has to wonder what the motive is. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #154

Hmmm. Food for tought. nt betsuni May 2015 #165

Yes it is. And in that thread and this one, more than one poster asked the OP what his objectives Bluenorthwest May 2015 #185

Racism and Discrimination are divisive. Advocating for Civil Rights is not divisive. fishwax May 2015 #158

"your problems are not my problem, but my problem--that's our problem" Number23 May 2015 #163

I don't get the 'vs' part AgingAmerican May 2015 #167

Virtually every poster who pushes this so-called "conflict" is a Third Wayer or Hillary shill. nt Romulox May 2015 #174

The people who say "racism is a tool of the 1% used to divide us" are third wayers? n/t gollygee May 2015 #176

Add disingenuous to the list, I guess. Romulox May 2015 #180

That's the conflict I see pushed gollygee May 2015 #181

I was responding to the OP, not to your inner dialogue. Romulox May 2015 #182

I don't know why you'd respond to something I wrote gollygee May 2015 #183

My post to you was a response to your "so you are saying," style strawman in post #176, Romulox May 2015 #184

What the actual Fuck? ismnotwasm May 2015 #179

I think it is called "wishful projection." Behind the Aegis May 2015 #198

I don't know how more appalled I can get. ismnotwasm May 2015 #218

But these are my (supposed) "allies"!!!! n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #220

Unbelievable ismnotwasm May 2015 #226

Horrified because I believe the so-called conflict between economic and social justice is bogus? Romulox May 2015 #234

Yup. ismnotwasm May 2015 #242

OK. I just wanted to make sure you weren't making a substantive point that I was missing. nt Romulox May 2015 #243

Now you went and hurt my feelings. Damn. ismnotwasm May 2015 #244

Or, they are PoC, and members of other marginalized groups. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #219

Being a PoC and being a Third Wayer aren't mutually exclusive. Romulox May 2015 #235

True; but you missed my point ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #236

The idea that maintaining economic inequality helps PoC is a non-starter, for me. nt Romulox May 2015 #237

Who has argued that? n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #238

This guy: NuclearDem May 2015 #245

I think that LWolf May 2015 #175

Cash in your face. Gormy Cuss May 2015 #196

I was hoping you'd step up and explain why you keep posting virutally identical OPs every few weeks. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #205

LOL. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #222

It's About Coming Together And Uniting... Why Are You Against That ??? WillyT May 2015 #239

That's bully boy behavior to accuse me of having 'monied interests' and frame my Bluenorthwest May 2015 #240

You've just proved you don't want a "Toughtful/Respectful" discussion. betsuni May 2015 #241

It's really hard for me to wrap my head around the idea kcr May 2015 #248

Here's a history lesson: women, people of color, poor immigrants, and LGBT people... YoungDemCA May 2015 #230