General Discussion

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)

103. I strongly disagree with the description of this as revenge.

Reply to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Fri May 15, 2015, 05:58 PM

May 2015

Revenge is usually considered killing or injuring as a response to a personal injury. Our justice system entirely forecloses those having a personal relationship to a case as the deciders of guilt or penalty. This is carried quite far - for example, a person having police relatives generally would be precluded from serving as a juror on a case involving an allegation of crime against a police officer.

Whatever this is, it is not an act of vengeance. You are free to believe that the death penalty is wrong, but that doesn't make the death penalty into an act of vengeance any more than a life penalty or a shorter prison term is revenge.

And if you want to say that every criminal sentence is vengeance, than what's the point? I guess you could claim that it is, because the jurors are saying "guilty" out of a feeling of being personally harmed by these types of acts, but I don't think anyone would agree that rapists, murders, child abusers, armed robbers, etc should walk because we can't seek vengeance.

If you want to argue against the death penalty, I think you have to do a better job than misusing language.

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Highlight:

On the Verdict: Revenge is a very poor substitute for justice. Discuss... [View all] CaliforniaPeggy May 2015 OP

Tell that... TeeYiYi May 2015 #1

You mean the ones who opposed him being sentenced to death? morningfog May 2015 #3

No... TeeYiYi May 2015 #21

Well, you can't get death for maiming. morningfog May 2015 #29

The families who spoke out ... TeeYiYi May 2015 #38

Whatever their reason, you are spitting in their face. morningfog May 2015 #50

You seem incredibly invested... TeeYiYi May 2015 #59

I accept your apology for your posting in ignorance. morningfog May 2015 #70

Oh my... TeeYiYi May 2015 #71

Well, we could do away with the appeals process, because, you know, mountain grammy May 2015 #86

I agree that... TeeYiYi May 2015 #110

I won't shed a tear for Tsarnaev mountain grammy May 2015 #126

Oddly, I felt a bit that way... TeeYiYi May 2015 #130

Bundy was another matter. A complete psychopath who worked alone.. mountain grammy May 2015 #132

Tsarnaev won't be dead... TeeYiYi May 2015 #140

...which is why we don't put family members on the jury. NuclearDem May 2015 #6

In this case... TeeYiYi May 2015 #17

Good for you. NuclearDem May 2015 #22

From a thread of mine... F4lconF16 May 2015 #25

You make very good emotional arguments Major Nikon May 2015 #138

Thank you, Major. TeeYiYi May 2015 #141

I don't blame those directly affected to want revenge but it won't bring peace. rhett o rick May 2015 #66

I'm not calling for revenge... TeeYiYi May 2015 #74

What is accomplished by putting him to death? nm rhett o rick May 2015 #87

Without the death panalty how will we maintain the United Barbaric States of America? Enthusiast May 2015 #95

Nothing, really... TeeYiYi May 2015 #97

he's worse than joker. he's a barbaric monster that is getting a small dose of samsingh May 2015 #69

Yep - especially that little boy's family. 840high May 2015 #91

Except his father did not want the death penalty imposed nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #94

In our justice system, the wishes of the injured or their relatives do not control the outcome. Yo_Mama May 2015 #104

I understand that nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #106

Well, he'll only be a martyr to those who think what he did was justified. Yo_Mama May 2015 #114

I oppose it in all circumstances nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #115

I see the argument against the DP in all cases. Yo_Mama May 2015 #117

I think the country will have to grapple with it nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #120

The ones who announced that they opposed the death penalty... Agschmid May 2015 #113

I am 100% opposed to the death penalty. We are a warlike and violent culture. NYC_SKP May 2015 #2

I totally agree with you. avebury May 2015 #11

Amen..... daleanime May 2015 #30

Kind of a default position or should be for anyone claiming to be a liberal NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #32

I think it should be reserved for certain cases snooper2 May 2015 #40

Wrong in all cases Gore1FL May 2015 #64

And what of the innocent who die in prison? Lancero May 2015 #112

Right you are! immoderate May 2015 #43

agreed! nt steve2470 May 2015 #58

I absolutely agree and am disappointed to see posters here claiming to be "politically liberal" rhett o rick May 2015 #67

I, for one, am not calling for revenge... haikugal May 2015 #82

The question is, why put someone to death? nm rhett o rick May 2015 #84

let me give you another AMEN etherealtruth May 2015 #79

On the verdict: Death penalty is just. Discuss ... Lil Missy May 2015 #4

What is it, then? nt F4lconF16 May 2015 #28

Justice n/t Lil Missy May 2015 #37

Why? F4lconF16 May 2015 #39

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind uppityperson May 2015 #41

Because we dont allow family to determine punishment Telcontar May 2015 #53

A good point. F4lconF16 May 2015 #54

I am opposed to the death penalty as well Telcontar May 2015 #135

Lol, yes it is revenge, what other reason is there? nt Logical May 2015 #42

No remorse from him. In this case it's justice. 840high May 2015 #93

What a lot of people don't get is this: catnhatnh May 2015 #5

Well said. nt F4lconF16 May 2015 #33

Opposing the death penalty has nothing to do with those sentenced to it. Maedhros May 2015 #55

Yes. It's not about the person sentenced. TDale313 May 2015 #85

I agree with you it is wrong. hrmjustin May 2015 #7

As long as there is due process and a fair trial, what is wrong with revenge? bluestateguy May 2015 #8

Because revenge is what the justice system exists to prevent. NuclearDem May 2015 #15

Not related to this case but had you heard the Scalia's opinion avebury May 2015 #23

This can't be a surprise for him. zappaman May 2015 #9

The death penalty is backwards, too expensive, and doesn't work as a deterrent. NuclearDem May 2015 #10

Oh no. Rhiannon12866 May 2015 #12

Isn't Life without Parole a revenge too FLPanhandle May 2015 #13

I agree that life without parole is not rehabilitation. CaliforniaPeggy May 2015 #26

Technically the death penalty does the same thing FLPanhandle May 2015 #99

Yes. F4lconF16 May 2015 #31

Here's hoping he moves phil89 May 2015 #51

Problems with that Egnever May 2015 #68

It's not easy. F4lconF16 May 2015 #80

I agree wholeheartedly. I would add cruel. haikugal May 2015 #89

and this attitude is why I support the death penalty FLPanhandle May 2015 #100

Shame on the United States, shame on the DOJ, shame on the US government, shame on the jury. morningfog May 2015 #14

I'm against the DP in all cases, this one is no exception. Coventina May 2015 #16

It is justice. Throd May 2015 #18

Why? nt F4lconF16 May 2015 #34

It's not just this case. F4lconF16 May 2015 #19

Ridiculous assertions. phil89 May 2015 #52

You have little claim to the moral high ground, Maedhros May 2015 #56

add me to... stonecutter357 May 2015 #88

I agree. Maybe we could get a gang and break him out, drag him with a rope behind a car until his jtuck004 May 2015 #131

I'm completely opposed to the death penalty in MineralMan May 2015 #20

Most sentences have an element of revenge aikoaiko May 2015 #24

I couldn't agree more. MindPilot May 2015 #27

There are those who get a vicarious thrill when the State employs deadly force, Maedhros May 2015 #57

2 wrongs don't make a right . olddots May 2015 #35

The death penalty is not a deterrent and it will take decades before it is applied csziggy May 2015 #36

Very well expressed and I couldn't have said anything better Rhiannon12866 May 2015 #44

That's my sentiment, as well. hamsterjill May 2015 #72

In such a case sarisataka May 2015 #45

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #46

That quote is one of my favorites and so perfect. Thank you! n/t CaliforniaPeggy May 2015 #47

You're welcome. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #48

+1,000 n/t malaise May 2015 #63

No discussion malaise May 2015 #49

Punishment and revenge... yallerdawg May 2015 #62

I'm opposed to the state killing its citizens. However -- Nuclear Unicorn May 2015 #60

Considering that there are certain middle aged and elderly "statesmen" Cleita May 2015 #61

excellent points! nt steve2470 May 2015 #65

Revenge is not justice. Revenge is never fair. Justice, in its highest sense, is total fairness. Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #73

There is nothing that can possibly equalize in many cases - Yo_Mama May 2015 #105

Revenge could never be an equalizer, that's like saying a gun is an equalizer. The only thing that Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #108

We cannot heal those dead, maimed, their families, or even the surviving Tsarnaev Yo_Mama May 2015 #116

Healing is always possible. To give up on healing is to give up on life itself, for healing is Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #118

Healing is only possible for those still living with the capacity to be whole. Yo_Mama May 2015 #119

"I see no way that we cannot inflict harm on Tsarnaev in order to prevent more casualties." Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #121

It's not truth. It's just an emotion based assertion. phil89 May 2015 #128

"To revenge kill is to destroy, which is the opposite of life-affirming. This is greater truth." Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #139

I think the discussion boils down to "no, that statement is false". Donald Ian Rankin May 2015 #75

If I were on the Jury, I would be torn in deciding the verdict. dem in texas May 2015 #76

Then what is justice? Rex May 2015 #77

The people on that jury were able/prepared to issue a death sentence. MADem May 2015 #78

Life in isolation in a super-max or death... MerryBlooms May 2015 #81

Well, he'll be doing a good long stretch in a federal pen in Indiana, on death row. MADem May 2015 #92

I'm personally anti death penalty. MerryBlooms May 2015 #111

He's been in solitary since he's been arrested. He's at an old military base now, I think. MADem May 2015 #134

Yep. MerryBlooms May 2015 #136

Justice is best for society. Vengeance is best for the individual. n/t rock May 2015 #83

It is called the death penalty, yet it is calculated murder and wrong for any country to Jefferson23 May 2015 #90

I was raised by a Jewish mother who used to say: mountain grammy May 2015 #96

Agree 100-percent. Octafish May 2015 #98

it's mostly revenge bigtree May 2015 #101

There could be a Great Philosophical debate here ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #102

I agree, and way too many people have been convicted on false and flimsy evidence steve2470 May 2015 #124

I strongly disagree with the description of this as revenge. Yo_Mama May 2015 #103

And I strongly feel that I used the correct language for me. CaliforniaPeggy May 2015 #125

Yes you did... TeeYiYi May 2015 #127

Thank you, my dear TeeYiYi... CaliforniaPeggy May 2015 #129

The child killer workinclasszero May 2015 #107

The needle goes in xfundy May 2015 #109

I agree. /nt workinclasszero May 2015 #122

justice = life in prison until he dies steve2470 May 2015 #123

2 wrongs don't make a right spanone May 2015 #133

Yes it is JonLP24 May 2015 #137

All revenge does is continue the cycle of hate and violence. liberal_at_heart May 2015 #142