On the Verdict: Revenge is a very poor substitute for justice. Discuss...

[JonLP24]

137. Yes it is

Eventually, it becomes revenge for revenge.

Salafi-Wahabbism cult influences others with targeted propaganda capitalizing on reasons for revenge. I don't know why the press or most people act as if it is for no reason or for some other reason behind the motivating. He has ties with Chechyna -- I can give what I know there (which isn't much) for why Russia is getting rocked by terrorism.

Red terror
Main article: Red Terror

The policy of Red terror in Soviet Russia served to frighten the civilian population and exterminate certain social groups considered as "ruling classes" or enemies of the people. Karl Kautsky said about Red Terror: "Among the phenomena for which Bolshevism has been responsible, Terrorism, which begins with the abolition of every form of freedom of the Press, and ends in a system of wholesale execution, is certainly the most striking and the most repellent of all.. Kautsky recognized that Red Terror represented a variety of terrorism because it was indiscriminate, intended to frighten the civilian population, and included taking and executing hostages "[1]. Martin Latsis, chief of the Ukrainian Cheka emphasized that Red terror was an extrajudicial punishment:

"Do not look in the file of incriminating evidence to see whether or not the accused rose up against the Soviets with arms or words. Ask him instead to which class he belongs, what is his background, his education, his profession. These are the questions that will determine the fate of the accused. That is the meaning and essence of the Red Terror."[7]

One of the most common terrorist practices was hostage-taking. A typical report from a Cheka department stated: "Yaroslavl Province, 23 June 1919. The uprising of deserters in the Petropavlovskaya volost has been put down. The families of the deserters have been taken as hostages. When we started to shoot one person from each family, the Greens began to come out of the woods and surrender. Thirty-four deserters were shot as an example".[8]
Contemporary Russia
Threat of Islamic terrorism
Further information: Islamic terrorism § Russia and Islamism

Islamic terrorism is considered a major threat to the security of the nation[9] with most terrorist activity taking place in Chechnya and Dagestan. Since October 2007, the Caucasus Emirate has withdrawn its nationalist goals of creating a sovereign state in Chechnya. It has since fully adopted the Islamic fundamentalist ideology of Salafist-takfiri jihadism [10] whose enemies not only include Russia and its citizens, but all non-Muslims, including the local Sufi population, and foreign countries such as the United States, France, United Kingdom, and Israel.[citation needed] They have made numerous references in their speeches that they have declared war on "anyone who wages war against Muslims." The Russian government has banned seventeen terrorist organizations; the Highest Military Majlisul Shura of the United Forces of the Mujahedeen of the Caucasus, the Congress of the Peoples of Ichkeria and Daghestan, Al Qaeda, Asbat an-Ansar, Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Al-Jamaa al-Islami, Jamaat-e-Islami, Muslim Brotherhood, Hizb ut-Tahrir, Lashkar-e-Toiba, Taliban, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, Society of Social Reforms (Jamiat al-Islah al-Ijtimai), Society of the Revival of Islamic Heritage (Jamiat Ihya at-Turaz al-Islami), al-Haramain Foundation, Junj ash-Sham (Army of the Great Syria), and the Islamic Jihad - jamaat of the mujahedeen.[11]

Many Muslims and human rights activists have criticized the government's counter-terrorism operations, saying they unfairly target Muslims.[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Russia

Could have something to do with Russia - Saudi Arabia, no way in hell do I condone these type of acts because of the ideology is like any authoritarian right wing movement but with the ideology -- the propaganda networks specifically targeted those people. I remember on VICE "Terrorist University" there was a school that teaches the doctrine, on camera there was a student who was basically kidnapped into the back of a SUV disappearing without a trace leaving his family as you'd expect. It was on HBO so full episodes are hard to find but there were some contacts with the Boston bomber but doesn't seem to be something where he was directly involved with the "white widows", if he was, Russia would have probably killed him or whoever kidnapped that student.

#t=28

Understanding Terrorism
<snip>
The lure of terror

For years, psychologists examined terrorists' individual characteristics, mining for clues that could explain their willingness to engage in violence. While researchers now agree that most terrorists are not "pathological" in any traditional sense, several important insights have been gleaned though interviews with some 60 former terrorists conducted by psychologist John Horgan, PhD, who directs the Pennsylvania State University's International Center for the Study of Terrorism.

Horgan found that people who are more open to terrorist recruitment and radicalization tend to:

Feel angry, alienated or disenfranchised.

Believe that their current political involvement does not give them the power to effect real change.

Identify with perceived victims of the social injustice they are fighting.

Feel the need to take action rather than just talking about the problem.

Believe that engaging in violence against the state is not immoral.

Have friends or family sympathetic to the cause.

Believe that joining a movement offers social and psychological rewards such as adventure, camaraderie and a heightened sense of identity.

Beyond the individual characteristics of terrorists, Horgan has learned that it's more fruitful to investigate how people change as a result of terrorist involvement than to simply ask why they enter in the first place. That's because asking why tends to yield pat, ideological responses, while asking how reveals important information about the processes of entry, involvement and leaving organizations, he has found. Potential areas to tap include examining the myriad ways people join organizations, whether via recruitment or personal decision; how leaders influence people's decision to adopt certain roles, for example by glorifying the role of suicide bomber; and factors that motivate people to leave.

In turn, such data could help to create plausible interventions, he says. For instance, based on what he's gleaned about why people leave organizations, a particularly promising strategy may be highlighting how the promised glamorous lifestyle never comes to pass—an experience poignantly recounted by a former terrorist now in hiding. The man told Horgan he was lured into a movement as a teen when recruiters romanticized the cause. But he soon discovered his comrades held sectarian values, not the idealistic ones he had, and he was horrified when he killed his first victim at point-blank range.

"The reality of involvement is not what these kids are led to believe," says Horgan. "Speaking with repentant former terrorists, many with blood on their hands, offers an extraordinary opportunity to use the terrorists' own words and deeds against them."

Some psychologists believe terrorism is most accurately viewed through a political lens. Psychologist Clark McCauley, PhD, a co-investigator at START and director of the Solomon Asch Center for Study of Ethnopolitical Conflict at Bryn Mawr College, has come to see terrorism as "the warfare of the weak"—the means by which groups that lack material or political power fight what they see as oppressive forces. As such, he believes that terrorist actions and government reactions to them represent a dynamic interplay, with the moves of one group influencing those of the other. As one example, if terrorists commit an attack and a state uses extreme force to send a punishing message back, the terrorists may use that action to drum up greater anti-state sentiment among citizens, lending justification to their next actions. Yet research focuses almost solely on terrorist actions and neglects the important other side of the equation, he contends. "If you can't keep track of what we're doing in response, how can you ever hope to figure out what works better or worse?" McCauley says.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/11/terrorism.aspx

Here is an act motivated out of revenge, Bin Laden said he was waging a "psychological war" with the US -- obviously I think he was full of shit but the message he sent. He was like a Jim Jones preaching for everyone else to drink the kool-aid but himself -- really selling the Janah stuff in a desire to convince to perform unethical attacks on civilians by turning themselves in a bomb but when the other side isn't ethical themselves (Bush) it becomes about revenge primarily. Don't think Bin Laden was motivated for those kind of reasons, just the followers cult leaders like that dupe -- When the US, Mujahideen, Saudi Arabia joint effort sent the Soviets retreating following their occupation it gave him the confidence that he can defeat a Super Power and the tactics in the Al-Qaeda playbook were the sort of things that were successful against the Soviets.

Soviet-Afghan War

ujahideen mobilization in non-Pashtun regions faced very different obstacles. Prior to the intervention, few non-Pashtuns possessed firearms. Early in the war they were most readily available from army troops or gendarmerie who defected or were ambushed. The international arms market and foreign military support tended to reach the minority areas last. In the northern regions, little military tradition had survived upon which to build an armed resistance. Mobilization mostly came from political leadership closely tied to Islam. Roy convincingly contrasts the social leadership of religious figures in the Persian- and Turkic-speaking regions of Afghanistan with that of the Pashtuns. Lacking a strong political representation in a state dominated by Pashtuns, minority communities commonly looked to pious learned or charismatically revered pirs (saints) for leadership. Extensive Sufi and maraboutic networks were spread through the minority communities, readily available as foundations for leadership, organization, communication and indoctrination. These networks also provided for political mobilization, which led to some of the most effective of the resistance operations during the war.[93]

The mujahideen favoured sabotage operations. The more common types of sabotage included damaging power lines, knocking out pipelines and radio stations, blowing up government office buildings, air terminals, hotels, cinemas, and so on. In the border region with Pakistan, the mujahideen would often launch 800 rockets per day. Between April 1985 and January 1987, they carried out over 23,500 shelling attacks on government targets. The mujahideen surveyed firing positions that they normally located near villages within the range of Soviet artillery posts, putting the villagers in danger of death from Soviet retaliation. The mujahideen used land mines heavily. Often, they would enlist the services of the local inhabitants, even children.
Mujahideen praying in Shultan Valley, 1987

They concentrated on both civilian and military targets, knocking out bridges, closing major roads, attacking convoys, disrupting the electric power system and industrial production, and attacking police stations and Soviet military installations and air bases. They assassinated government officials and PDPA members, and laid siege to small rural outposts. In March 1982, a bomb exploded at the Ministry of Education, damaging several buildings. In the same month, a widespread power failure darkened Kabul when a pylon on the transmission line from the Naghlu power station was blown up. In June 1982 a column of about 1,000 young communist party members sent out to work in the Panjshir valley were ambushed within 30 km of Kabul, with heavy loss of life. On September 4, 1985, insurgents shot down a domestic Bakhtar Airlines plane as it took off from Kandahar airport, killing all 52 people aboard.

Mujahideen groups used for assassination had three to five men in each. After they received their mission to kill certain government officials, they busied themselves with studying his pattern of life and its details and then selecting the method of fulfilling their established mission. They practiced shooting at automobiles, shooting out of automobiles, laying mines in government accommodation or houses, using poison, and rigging explosive charges in transport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War

In short, 9/11 was motivated from inspiration from leaders such as Bin Laden on desires for revenge (and a belief they'll be rewarded for their efforts as if Bin Laden or others has this direct pipeline to god) which turns 9/11 into revenge from the US so here we got wars (I think for-profit reasons more than anything but capitalized on the population's desires for revenge), indefinite detention, torture, "black sites", etc creating more individuals who want revenge (notice these groups spring up in oppressive countries -- some dark shadows higher up pushing this, really as a war against its people because civilian attacks are counterproductive if you want US troops out but it all seems to be by-design by everyone involved) but eventually revenge for revenge.

I would have preferred something else, a chance to grow & most of the ones doing the dirty work are doing it based on the words of cult leaders who often become disillusioned (like young gang members & the "pyramid scheme" type of structure) creating an opportunity to learn & combat this at the root cause but it just seemed like it would either be Supermax or the Death Penalty, not to mention a terrorist trial guarantees an impartial trial & I've seen some very shoddy trials in this era. There was this guy from the UK who the US so obviously used several paid (or otherwise) informants saying he was involved in a kidnapping in Yemen from the UK. I think maybe there was evidence in a way but they go so far beyond facts & use anything that sticks. A politician can't even vote to give them Habaes Corpus rights without being branded a "terrorist lover". I can't imagine the pressures for federal or local judges. On edit -- I'd feel the DP is more humane than lifetime isolation, that's what I'd rather have anyway.