General Discussion

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)

131. You're right that establishment hetero pols haven't done enough for LGBTQ rights.

Sun May 17, 2015, 11:38 AM

May 2015

I've always said the same thing.

We do need more of them backing ENDA(I think Bernie does, and if he doesn't he damn well should.

Please believe me that nothing in my OP or any of my other posts in this thread was ever intended
as a claim that all or even most of the anti-oppression battles have been fought and won.

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Martin Luther King fought equally hard for civil rights and economic equality. [View all] Ken Burch May 2015 OP

in the last years of his life Dr King hifiguy May 2015 #1

The problem is that some think that being mildly progressive on rights issues Ken Burch May 2015 #2

It's exactly the kind of split the owners of society want. Making you think one type of "rights" is villager May 2015 #4

Precisely. You beat me to it. Ilsa May 2015 #75

You summed up better of what I was trying to say JonLP24 May 2015 #177

Bingo, and there are a handful of DUers who beat that drum constantly. hifiguy May 2015 #5

As the song put it "we need bread and roses too". n/t Ken Burch May 2015 #6

Not if you are starving. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #20

bread keeps your body from starving,rights and dreams (the roses)keep your soul from starving. Ken Burch May 2015 #21

True. I guess it's a matter of perspective ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #23

Exactly. ismnotwasm May 2015 #24

So ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #25

Clear as a spring morning ismnotwasm May 2015 #50

The Lack Of Social Justice IS the proximate denier of bread for many JustAnotherGen May 2015 #153

if someone disagrees with you, it is trolling? seabeyond May 2015 #34

Imo, it is trolling. Economic Rights are Civil Rights. The inequality in this country today sabrina 1 May 2015 #40

+1 liberal_at_heart May 2015 #46

I believe it is being done because that's the only way they can tout their candidate. cui bono May 2015 #149

As well as speaking out against the Vietnam War. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #15

Excellent point. hifiguy May 2015 #16

Well. Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #26

How Far King was willing to go to end poverty RandallBurns May 2015 #30

Yep MFrohike May 2015 #3

civil rights does include economic issues JI7 May 2015 #6

Indeed. n/t. Ken Burch May 2015 #18

But ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #27

"economic issues do not include social issues. " say it again. maybe it will sink in seabeyond May 2015 #36

Exactly. KitSileya May 2015 #56

Economic justice could underwrite that social jstice daredtowork May 2015 #66

Until we get social equality, white straight men won't let us get economic justice. KitSileya May 2015 #71

White straight men have the money and the power daredtowork May 2015 #72

No, I the vast majority of straight, white (christian) males (approx. 99%) ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #78

Agreed. But there does need to be an alliance between those groups Ken Burch May 2015 #132

Agreed; but, neither the alliance, nor the dialogue can/will be ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #188

You are preaching to the choir on that one. Ken Burch May 2015 #197

They identify with those who do, though. nt daredtowork May 2015 #158

If only we could get rid of white straight men... Comrade Grumpy May 2015 #136

No ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #189

I will say ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #76

If enough women can walk away daredtowork May 2015 #157

Yes they do. Ken Burch May 2015 #63

"the majority of LGBTQ who don't feel economically privileged enough to come out of the closet. " Behind the Aegis May 2015 #65

WOW ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #80

I didn't say fear of gaybashing wasn't a massive part of the decision Ken Burch May 2015 #127

Well ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #135

It wasn't meant as a universal statement. Ken Burch May 2015 #97

The comment is vile. It's really, really vile. It also demonstrates even more strongly what your OP Bluenorthwest May 2015 #113

I never said coming out was always an option. In fact I was saying the opposite. Ken Burch May 2015 #126

What's wrong with it? It's just not true. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #141

Obviously it will go better if you have better people around you. Ken Burch May 2015 #143

Yep and women and POC have the same issues in the workplace an justice system.... bettyellen May 2015 #147

+1000 JustAnotherGen May 2015 #156

A few things. Behind the Aegis May 2015 #138

I shouldn't have said "and you know it" my major bad there. Ken Burch May 2015 #142

I just put my hand over my mouth when I read that JustAnotherGen May 2015 #154

Nailed it... SidDithers May 2015 #84

Why wouldn't they? Ken Burch May 2015 #130

But..but.. a couple of EXCEPTIONALLY well known and well documented dimwits in this thread Number23 May 2015 #150

I'm a woman and I'm no fucking dimwit... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #165

You know what? I have tried to ignore you. You keep blathering one insipid post to me after another Number23 May 2015 #170

Okay. I see its not possible for you to post without the abusive crap Violet_Crumble May 2015 #175

I don't need to put you on ignore. I am fully capable of ignoring you which seems to cause a literal Number23 May 2015 #178

You don't seem to do too well with that whole ignoring thing... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #179

How many hours has it been since I typed my response and this is the Grade A idiocy that you Number23 May 2015 #183

That's pretty cool how you claim not to read my posts but then call what I say idiocy... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #191

Look downthread, you've got damn near half a dozen posters attempting the Herculean task of Number23 May 2015 #192

I see only three, and they were all pleasant and pretty much on the same page as me... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #193

GO. LEARN. SOMETHING. Number23 May 2015 #194

WHAT. I. LEARNT. TODAY! Violet_Crumble May 2015 #195

GO. LEARN. SOMETHING. Number23 May 2015 #196

Absolutely romanic May 2015 #155

he also included militarism in that mix, G_j May 2015 #8

Absolutely Ken Burch May 2015 #9

when we consider how much of our 'treasure' is diverted to the MIC and it's wars, G_j May 2015 #11

when he turned to economic inequality and the vietnam war, his time was up. even worse, msongs May 2015 #10

You're mostly right about MLK although the economics was later in his life before the assassination. craigmatic May 2015 #12

Wasn't the March in Selma in support of a upaloopa May 2015 #13

It was. Ken Burch May 2015 #14

BS ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #29

No ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #28

Thank you. Iliyah May 2015 #33

That was Memphis. Comrade Grumpy May 2015 #137

It's a false dichotomy, and doesn't reflect what's happening on the ground at all Chathamization May 2015 #17

They had it right. You cannot have social equality without economic equality. liberal_at_heart May 2015 #19

This is a revisionist agenda driven interpretation based on white, male straight privledge. ismnotwasm May 2015 #22

and the system to keep poor people down is not institutional oppression? liberal_at_heart May 2015 #31

you can absolutely have economic justice without social justice. and that is the argument now. nt seabeyond May 2015 #37

No you can't, and nobody is saying that social justice doesn't matter. Ken Burch May 2015 #39

you are saying, we are saying set it aside. we are saying. may we PLEASE sit at the table with seabeyond May 2015 #81

What laws have been passed to promote social justice and what were the effects on the oppressed? ismnotwasm May 2015 #41

This country has had a Civil Rights Movement, a Women's Rights Movement and a Labor liberal_at_heart May 2015 #44

Well I can't argue with that ismnotwasm May 2015 #47

We are all in this together. I have an evangelical Christian father who would love to see liberal_at_heart May 2015 #51

There have been a number of laws passed to promote social justice. Behind the Aegis May 2015 #55

As far as I know, everyone here agrees with the last sentence in your post. Ken Burch May 2015 #59

Really? Behind the Aegis May 2015 #60

I've never argued that you or anyone else in an oppressed group should ever "know their place". Ken Burch May 2015 #62

Just because you haven't said (or seen it), doesn't mean it hasn't happened. It does. Behind the Aegis May 2015 #64

I absolutely agree with all that you just posted there. Ken Burch May 2015 #69

"It's the centrists who will tell you to "wait your turn"," no. it is the populist group on du. seabeyond May 2015 #83

fuck that wedge issue crap, talk about dismissing. no, duers have actually said, minor issue, seabeyond May 2015 #82

I've edited out the "wedge-issue" reference. Ken Burch May 2015 #145

LOL ... Come on ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #112

Well ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #108

That person got it wrong Ken Burch May 2015 #111

then why are you REFUSING to acknowledge the social issues and unlevel playing field seabeyond May 2015 #115

I'm not refusing to do that. Ken Burch May 2015 #119

Linking social and economic issues is about beginning to level the ground. seabeyond May 2015 #121

If I may be less ... delicate ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #102

why wont, any pushing this meme accept this simple fact. it has been stated repeatedly. we have seabeyond May 2015 #105

+1,000 ismnotwasm May 2015 #151

The other key to building a true coalition for real structural change, social AND economic, Ken Burch May 2015 #42

We are all in it together. We must all fight for each other because those that would oppress us liberal_at_heart May 2015 #45

Again, using the failures of standpoint theory, I beg to differ ismnotwasm May 2015 #53

Sorry, but I disagree. This is why I don't get in feminism discussions. I've been told many times liberal_at_heart May 2015 #54

Well good luck with that ismnotwasm May 2015 #57

I've got a probably dumb question about this social/economic thing... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #68

I understand part of it daredtowork May 2015 #74

Supremes really is THE most important thing as far as seabeyond is concerned. seabeyond May 2015 #86

Supremes are incredibly important gollygee May 2015 #87

it is incredible that others do not feel it is most important. from dead blacks and women, to seabeyond May 2015 #92

I believe it daredtowork May 2015 #159

Expecting Social justice to follow economic justice is, at best naive. ismnotwasm May 2015 #152

Both are really important and I don't see why one has to be sidelined at the expense of the other... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #162

Ok, you are from Australia right? ismnotwasm May 2015 #182

Yeah. I live in Canberra which is the capital.... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #190

You have to live in the country JustAnotherGen May 2015 #163

Yeah, probably. I was trying to put it into a local perspective... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #166

Thanks on Universal Health Care JustAnotherGen May 2015 #167

If I woke up tomorrow as American Violet, healthcare would be the #1 issue for me... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #180

I love when the clueless eat up your "nice girl" act Number23 May 2015 #171

Lather, rinse, repeat JustAnotherGen May 2015 #172

Yeah, but you know you're just setting us both up for the "why can't you be nice like those OTHER Number23 May 2015 #173

Now I am nice JustAnotherGen May 2015 #174

Silly African Americans, when did you get the ridiculous and absurd idea that you are randys1 May 2015 #181

You know it! I just should just get used to know nothings chasing me around this board with the Number23 May 2015 #184

It is so damn funny, but so sad too. randys1 May 2015 #185

That is nothing but the truth. And not only pretend to know it all, but actually try to browbeat and Number23 May 2015 #186

"working-class whites(who have suffered economically as much as poc have suffered socially " seabeyond May 2015 #85

No, they haven't been shot in the back for walking. Ken Burch May 2015 #94

then do not have an issue when i say, we are starting on an unlevel playing field. at the very least seabeyond May 2015 #96

I'm not the one calling your concerns "wedge issues". Ken Burch May 2015 #99

yes, you have used wedge issue in language. look at all the posts saying economic/social intwined seabeyond May 2015 #101

That's the opposite of a wedge issue. Ken Burch May 2015 #106

to state that blacks, gays women are not starting on an unlevel playing field is a false statement. seabeyond May 2015 #114

Agreed. And its never a statement I would personally make. At least not intentionally. Ken Burch May 2015 #120

but, you continue to say. regardless of many bringing it to your awareness. imagine that. nt seabeyond May 2015 #123

I have never said we should only address economic justice. Ken Burch May 2015 #134

of course I don't think those things. Ken Burch May 2015 #38

Social justice has not once dismissed economic. It has been consistently the other way around. seabeyond May 2015 #52

Nobody, to my knowledge, has tried to keep social justice out of election 2016. Ken Burch May 2015 #58

you, others say this. it has been in threads you and the others are in, there is never condemnation seabeyond May 2015 #88

Bella Abzug was a co-sponsor of The Equality Act in 1978 I think it was. The Equality Act was the Bluenorthwest May 2015 #128

You're right that establishment hetero pols haven't done enough for LGBTQ rights. Ken Burch May 2015 #131

Of course Bernie supports ENDA. That's not even a question. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #140

I wasn't trying to hang it on Bernie. Ken Burch May 2015 #144

No, I don't think any of those things. Ken Burch May 2015 #139

it is nice for you to allow us to be a part of 2016 elevction. so how about when we participate, seabeyond May 2015 #32

It's neither my place to allow you or forbid you to be part of the 2016 elections Ken Burch May 2015 #67

maybe when Ops attacking me personally and whole threads of mra pals insulting, ridiculing, seabeyond May 2015 #89

It's not me telling you to shut up, or denying you a place at the table. Ken Burch May 2015 #95

people are so busy trying to figure out and create my agenda, no one is actually listening to what i seabeyond May 2015 #98

No one should tell you that social doesn't matter. Ken Burch May 2015 #100

"It's just that social isn't all that matters." strawman. "No one should tell you that social doesn' seabeyond May 2015 #104

no one is even asking for fuckin shit, but the acknowledgment of simple truths. you do not have to seabeyond May 2015 #110

We are on an uneven playing field. Ken Burch May 2015 #116

i am done. totally done. done. and as we continue this argument, i will continue to call the seabeyond May 2015 #118

We aren't having an argument. You are simply attacking me with no justification Ken Burch May 2015 #125

Post removed Post removed May 2015 #129

it is amazing the number of these threads you and yours for economic justice throws up, yet.... seabeyond May 2015 #35

I don't think you're a troll. Ken Burch May 2015 #43

You have people in this very thread stating it. And you did not address my points. seabeyond May 2015 #49

Ken's saying both things are intertwined, and he didn't call you a troll... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #61

first sentence... i did not go further in your post. already crap. i did not say ken said i was a seabeyond May 2015 #90

Yeah, you did. It was in yr first sentence.... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #160

LOL, "tissy fits", "you and yours"... you are a hypocrite of the highest order. Bonobo May 2015 #73

Three people sharing that if economic not priority it is trolling, just a start. seabeyond May 2015 #48

No-one in this thread has said that economic stuff is *the* priority... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #70

and they are BOTH wrong. dying while black is ALL social and no economic. that simple. seabeyond May 2015 #91

Who here has said that police violence against blacks doesn't matter? Ken Burch May 2015 #103

i have spelled it out for you so many times, as others have spelled it out for you in such simplicit seabeyond May 2015 #117

I have always acknowledged it. My OP acknowledges it. Ken Burch May 2015 #122

no. and it was pointed out. using wedge issue. stating poor white AS oppressed as minorities. seabeyond May 2015 #124

Again, neither of them claimed that economic issues *the* only thing... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #161

The struggle was not over in a few months and still continues though many many doors was opened. Thinkingabout May 2015 #77

He referenced the "triple evils" gollygee May 2015 #79

Take it a step further JustAnotherGen May 2015 #168

The civil rights he worked so hard for gollygee May 2015 #169

definition social/economic justice seabeyond May 2015 #93

No, it's not too much to ask BainsBane May 2015 #107

Agreed. Ken Burch May 2015 #109

The first time I took part in a 'gay political event' that event was demonstrating against health Bluenorthwest May 2015 #133

I actually haven't spent much time in the "populist" group. Ken Burch May 2015 #146

Are you saying that populism isn't fighting for social justice for all? cui bono May 2015 #148

Side Note - first thanks for your Activism JustAnotherGen May 2015 #164

Bring that noise BNW ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #187

He did JonLP24 May 2015 #176