General Discussion

malthaussen

(18,563 posts)

51. You know me, I like to be perverse...

Wed May 20, 2015, 12:16 PM

May 2015

... maybe the message is designed to evoke the backlash. After all, when you women raise your heads, it gives us an excuse to smack them. One way to promote control is to make it seem like the sides are definite and the stakes high. "Look, guys, if we don't smack these women down now, we might have to walk out to the kitchen and get our own beer!" So it isn't so much stupidity when you are told to shoot your attacker, but is probably stupid to do it. Men want to cast the argument in familiar terms of us/them and Survival of the Strongest, because that plays to their strengths. It really seems to me to be a case of the beatings continuing until morale improves, and it does require an awful lot of alertness and awareness to combat it.

Which leads, willy-nilly, back to my original point, that our culture works very hard to discourage alertness and awareness.

-- Mal

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Highlight:

Taylor Swift: "Misogyny Is Ingrained in People From the Time They Are Born" [View all] seabeyond May 2015 OP

My problem with Swift isn't that she is sharing feelings from a vulnerable place Goblinmonger May 2015 #1

i heard my 16 yr old son dismiss this singer saying the same whining shit. seabeyond May 2015 #3

Do you have a specific artist in mind to discuss? Goblinmonger May 2015 #36

" ALL the male artists" vs "ALL male artists". you play this game, i am done talkin' seabeyond May 2015 #41

Again, I'm just asking you to give me something specific. Goblinmonger May 2015 #46

no. if you start so dishonestly in your conversation, you are not to be taken seriously. that simple seabeyond May 2015 #47

So you don't want to have a conversation about a male artist? Goblinmonger May 2015 #69

no, goblin. i do not want to have a conversation with you. i have said that, 3 x's, now? seabeyond May 2015 #71

But you're still replying to me all over the place? Goblinmonger May 2015 #73

wonderful changing the conversation to me saying ALL male artist. such easy language manipulation seabeyond May 2015 #62

Ed Sheeren is on his Dorian Gray May 2015 #217

You would probably get more conversation... NaturalHigh May 2015 #166

For real. romanic May 2015 #175

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2015 #57

"It's not ALL male artists" i did not say that so who should be shuttin' the fuck up? seabeyond May 2015 #60

The troll has been "shut up." cyberswede May 2015 #68

ya. but, one made it thru yesterday and i do not get why seabeyond May 2015 #70

I think it's just a matter of time on that one. cyberswede May 2015 #74

ya........ i am pointing right at you. lmFUGGIN'ao. all of what you say. lol seabeyond May 2015 #78

For some people, "victory" means something completely different. arcane1 May 2015 #116

I never, EVER hear you use the word "whine" for women. Bonobo May 2015 #183

Only if you are listening to hip hop 1939 May 2015 #218

Hey, it worked for Joni Mitchell. n/t malthaussen May 2015 #4

Touche Goblinmonger May 2015 #75

Oh, I like Joni too. malthaussen May 2015 #82

speaking of joni, I cannot find any updates on her condition after 28 april. niyad May 2015 #99

Yeah, that story dropped like a rock, didn't it? malthaussen May 2015 #101

Graham Nash said last Friday that she'd be out of the hospital soon, has full awareness, seemed geek tragedy May 2015 #126

that is excellent news. hope it is so. niyad May 2015 #162

"Full awareness," good... malthaussen May 2015 #194

He didn't say. nt geek tragedy May 2015 #195

"pretty much all of her successful songs...have to do with a relationship gone bad" Nuclear Unicorn May 2015 #5

I was just thinking about Tammy Wynette! DawgHouse May 2015 #53

LOL treestar May 2015 #138

This hit's for you. LuvLoogie May 2015 #6

why you gotta be so mean. interesting, cause i have a teenage son that seabeyond May 2015 #11

your son might like this music video snooper2 May 2015 #19

"because she did it, A LOT " ya slut. i got that part of the conversation too. seabeyond May 2015 #25

I don't know how you got that out of what I wrote, Her songs/material/she did a lot snooper2 May 2015 #35

i know you do not know who i got it. yet, it was there. i am that good. seabeyond May 2015 #39

um, okay, I guess...I don't get to make up my own truths snooper2 May 2015 #52

I don't care how many relationships she had. Goblinmonger May 2015 #79

really, i am going off what i heard from a younger generation. seabeyond May 2015 #80

I have a class of mostly seniors who graduate in a couple days Goblinmonger May 2015 #83

they are fed in the same culture. this.... THIS i say respectfully, and beyond interesting. seabeyond May 2015 #84

I'm pretty good at just letting the talk about things. Goblinmonger May 2015 #97

..... seabeyond May 2015 #85

Yes. Not the AP part, though. Goblinmonger May 2015 #98

You're welcome, Sea. LuvLoogie May 2015 #121

I try to give people a chance but Swift doesn't do much for me Johonny May 2015 #8

i am very much into that, and rarely if ever listen to the words. seabeyond May 2015 #12

That's just an interpretation Blue_Adept May 2015 #13

i do not know about amusing. interesting. it is the conversation with 17 yr old son, last couple seabeyond May 2015 #18

It is amusing Blue_Adept May 2015 #21

which is what we so often do with women. we women say.... "fuck you" and then seabeyond May 2015 #28

I have no love for her music, but that's just personal preference. Goblinmonger May 2015 #40

Yes, I am Blue_Adept May 2015 #45

i think i like some of perry too. are they pitted against each other? cat fight? seabeyond May 2015 #48

Fair enough Goblinmonger May 2015 #66

you mutilated my meaning/intent taking out 'the' to create ALL men. you're an english teacher? seabeyond May 2015 #67

I'm not sure what this has to do with this subthread Goblinmonger May 2015 #72

Amusing, in a train-wreck sort of way. malthaussen May 2015 #44

A nice collaboration... LuvLoogie May 2015 #24

Yes, because men never write breakup songs shenmue May 2015 #127

Where did i said that? Goblinmonger May 2015 #170

Taylor Swift is rooted in country IVoteDFL May 2015 #134

Stipulating that indoctrination is a real process... malthaussen May 2015 #2

heres the thing. just yesterday i was chatting with greek... my experience. at 20, saying, WTF!!!! seabeyond May 2015 #7

It is of the nature of epiphanies... malthaussen May 2015 #10

yes. which brings us to this song. men telling us to carry a gun and shoot our rapist. seabeyond May 2015 #14

Hey, my violence trumps your violence! malthaussen May 2015 #16

i do not hear that story in the song. or the point i am making. seabeyond May 2015 #23

Not the song, Sea, the culture that evokes it. malthaussen May 2015 #32

no. as a matter of fact, the opposite, hence the backlash. we are suppose to continually submit. seabeyond May 2015 #37

You know me, I like to be perverse... malthaussen May 2015 #51

i actually amazingly had this conversation with another on du, just yesterday. and it goes.... seabeyond May 2015 #59

Silent Lucidity. ismnotwasm May 2015 #30

Good points. F4lconF16 May 2015 #17

as i think she is doing, per my OP and yet.... listen to the conversation. i think that is what seabeyond May 2015 #34

So you're saying the smart money is to invest in a lumber company then? The2ndWheel May 2015 #38

True, it is not the only issue treestar May 2015 #144

At 25, her current business model is pretty strong... MrScorpio May 2015 #9

she may have taken that step that is actually opening up that base. ya think? seabeyond May 2015 #15

Oh, I think a lot of it is learned, as well. Parents, and other adult figures bullwinkle428 May 2015 #20

My all time favorite band is Def Leppard. When she went on tour with them and sang some of their stevenleser May 2015 #22

Mentioning Def Leppard in a Taylor Swift thread just seems wrong somehow... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #199

I met the lead singer one time when doing a bit for RT, back when I still accepted those... stevenleser May 2015 #208

Huh. F4lconF16 May 2015 #26

I have no problems with Taylor Swift... In fact, some of her writing I can commend. Xyzse May 2015 #27

Glad she's on board ismnotwasm May 2015 #29

Sociology 101 would do her some good. It's nurture, not nature. n/t Exilednight May 2015 #31

It's nurture, not nature. seabeyond May 2015 #42

That's what she means by ismnotwasm May 2015 #50

That's not how I'm reading it. Exilednight May 2015 #55

Obviously. malthaussen May 2015 #58

hence, us educating you in the reading of it. nt seabeyond May 2015 #64

Why? ismnotwasm May 2015 #76

Ingrained means deeply rooted. If something is ingrained since birth, Exilednight May 2015 #87

immediately ingrained, from birth. indoctrined. boy, we hold less. girl we hold more. that matters seabeyond May 2015 #88

I don't get what you're trying to say. I've never experienced that wih friends or family. Exilednight May 2015 #91

ha... ok. well see. you live in a bubble? .... a world of purity and balance. i gotcha. nt seabeyond May 2015 #92

On my moms side of the family I am the only born boy Exilednight May 2015 #96

May be a generational thing, Sea. malthaussen May 2015 #103

if so, it is only because of conversation. i took parenting on as a job. research, listening, seabeyond May 2015 #105

Me either. polly7 May 2015 #95

I'm a mother of 4 girls laundry_queen May 2015 #169

I didn't say evidence of that extreme claim didn't possibly exist. polly7 May 2015 #172

Again, you assert because YOU don't see it, that it doesn't exist laundry_queen May 2015 #173

Bullshit. polly7 May 2015 #174

Yeah, I'm thinking the hostility isn't mine here. laundry_queen May 2015 #176

I don't like being lied about. polly7 May 2015 #177

I didn't lie. laundry_queen May 2015 #180

LMAO. polly7 May 2015 #206

Well I'll let others judge who is the angry one here. laundry_queen May 2015 #216

+1000. You've nailed it, thank you. "you are attempting to invalidate and R B Garr May 2015 #212

Again, it's not lying. laundry_queen May 2015 #182

Where did I say it didn't ever exist. polly7 May 2015 #210

Yet you can't see that your brother could equally be a victim in that sexism? davidn3600 May 2015 #187

Did I say I didn't see it? laundry_queen May 2015 #193

Snore. polly7 May 2015 #198

Zzzzzzzzz...... polly7 May 2015 #197

I haven't experienced that either... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #201

Oh come on now ........ polly7 May 2015 #209

Funny story: Orrex May 2015 #93

Ironically, my 12 aunts said the same thing to my dad. I had 4 sisters. n/t Exilednight May 2015 #154

I guess some stereotype's can be good if you're trying to make a point The2ndWheel May 2015 #102

you take it to ridiculous. why? nt seabeyond May 2015 #106

Well this is still the internet The2ndWheel May 2015 #114

i would say the intent more dismissive than anything else. seabeyond May 2015 #117

Alright, which part did you think went to the ridiculous? The2ndWheel May 2015 #119

who would get worked up putting a girl in a dress? hence, ridiculous. ya think? seabeyond May 2015 #120

I admire Taylor Swift, Miley Cyrus and all young performers speaking out on equality polly7 May 2015 #118

You CANNOT be serious. NaturalHigh May 2015 #191

Ok ismnotwasm May 2015 #149

I view racism the same way. No child is born racist, but Exilednight May 2015 #155

She said "ingrained" not "innate." LuvLoogie May 2015 #122

How do you know how smart she is? Have you say with her for hours having deep Exilednight May 2015 #124

"ingrain" is a transitive verb LuvLoogie May 2015 #128

"Ingrained" is an adjective. Exilednight May 2015 #137

You are cherry picking. "Mysogyny is ingrained..." is the verb usage LuvLoogie May 2015 #145

No I'm not. She said "from the time they are born" Exilednight May 2015 #151

You may be a journalism graduate LuvLoogie May 2015 #156

I said I would run it past some cohorts. I've texted the link and waiting for replies. n/t Exilednight May 2015 #158

From my editor: it would be a transient verb if Exilednight May 2015 #159

Your hyperactive autocorrect turned "transitive" into "transient." You might want to fix that. nt tblue37 May 2015 #189

What makes a verb transitive is that it takes a direct object--the action is TRANSferred from the tblue37 May 2015 #190

"FROM the time they are born" Captain Stern May 2015 #220

what it INDICATES, is from birth we are conditioned. nurtured. that would be the obvious. another seabeyond May 2015 #221

In this construction, "is ingrained" is the passive voice of the verb "to ingrain," and it is tblue37 May 2015 #186

There is one flaw with your explanation. Let's see if you can find it. Exilednight May 2015 #188

You have not made a coherent argument. LuvLoogie May 2015 #219

Problem is, they are synonyms. progressoid May 2015 #171

I really like Swift and the person she is growing into. NCTraveler May 2015 #33

there you go NC, i agree and am seeing the same. totally..... awesome. lol. nt seabeyond May 2015 #43

We really dig her in our house. LuvLoogie May 2015 #123

Thank you for sharing that. NCTraveler May 2015 #192

"Bad Blood" song is NOT about romantic relationships Blue_Adept May 2015 #49

Thanks ismnotwasm May 2015 #54

Like most things in life, context helps Blue_Adept May 2015 #56

I'm that way too ismnotwasm May 2015 #77

Misogyny is ingrained in people from the time they are born. NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #61

she says it. she gets plenty of backlash and dismissiveness. and i hear ya. nt seabeyond May 2015 #65

I see no "dismissiveness" of that thought here Goblinmonger May 2015 #81

dont you kinda get that when her conversation is misogyny and we discuss her relationships? nt seabeyond May 2015 #86

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2015 #90

Fair point. Goblinmonger May 2015 #104

Yes, she does. Actually. I wonder who is doing the back lashing, cant be MEN, can it NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #94

She did not even single out men treestar May 2015 #136

Wow, I am impressed, had no idea she was a deep thinker. Rex May 2015 #63

Curious that "Blank Page" is explictly about a stereotypical crazy girlfriend, then. Orrex May 2015 #89

K&R. Thanks for this thread, sea... YoungDemCA May 2015 #100

i have not been a part of her history, only minimally. mostly, not my thing. i do like to listen seabeyond May 2015 #107

yes! "girls and boys - who are struggling with finding themselves, figuring out who they are" J_J_ May 2015 #109

the third video above. not mine thing, nor do i need it. an adult. but, i did recognize what an seabeyond May 2015 #110

Ok Ok abelenkpe May 2015 #108

ha ha ha. ya. hm. nt seabeyond May 2015 #111

pink is a fav of mine. seabeyond May 2015 #112

Swift has some of the better songs on the radio these days. dawg May 2015 #113

she's being held back? Doctor_J May 2015 #115

When she gets older and less "hot" she will be judged on it a lot sooner treestar May 2015 #133

You have great faith in your crystal ball. Doctor_J May 2015 #141

Just generally, women will get comments on treestar May 2015 #150

That's so cute... davidn3600 May 2015 #125

"white girl worth $200 million bucks feels oppressed." clear to all on du you do not get misogyny seabeyond May 2015 #129

that's a rather gentle way of putting it . . . geek tragedy May 2015 #135

I think most people wouldn't mind having her problems davidn3600 May 2015 #143

She's talking about society in general! treestar May 2015 #148

I like said... davidn3600 May 2015 #157

She's still dealing with sexism treestar May 2015 #203

he is anti feminist, from day one. not fair, she has money, so what if she has to deal with misogyny seabeyond May 2015 #161

So when someone doesn't like her music or calls it "whiny"... davidn3600 May 2015 #163

A white girl worth $200 million bucks feels oppressed. That's a good one. seabeyond May 2015 #164

She was referring to the objectification of her looks treestar May 2015 #204

Yeah true. President Obama and Oprah, etc. treestar May 2015 #202

you all in your brilliance, continue giving the example of economic populist position, excluding seabeyond May 2015 #160

Ever listen to a blues record? This entire comment reeks of MRAishness with a side of homophobia nt geek tragedy May 2015 #131

+1 cyberswede May 2015 #168

No I think she is right treestar May 2015 #132

"I'm so lonesome, I could cry" geek tragedy May 2015 #139

I heard that as a kid! treestar May 2015 #146

FFS ismnotwasm May 2015 #152

She gets it treestar May 2015 #130

just a NOTE DonCoquixote May 2015 #140

Now I really like Taylor! Way to go Woman! You rock! Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #142

"Misogyny is ingrained in people from the time they are born" BlueJazz May 2015 #147

I think one of the main reasons for misogyny Skittles May 2015 #153

I think Freud felt that deep down, so he flipped it and came up with "penis envy." Arugula Latte May 2015 #167

"Misogyny Is Ingrained in People From the Time They Are Born" NaturalHigh May 2015 #165

Upthread laundry_queen May 2015 #178

Post removed Post removed May 2015 #179

I think you need a breather from this thread nt laundry_queen May 2015 #181

I thought the same of you after your first post. nt. polly7 May 2015 #196

They pretty much discuss it upthread treestar May 2015 #205

No, we are not all indoctrinated in it. Speak for yourself. nt. polly7 May 2015 #207

"Perhaps you need to upgrade your reading materials." NaturalHigh May 2015 #184

Cool. laundry_queen May 2015 #185

What does Kanye think? Nuclear Unicorn May 2015 #200

"Beyonce made the most profound feminist statement ever." nt geek tragedy May 2015 #211

Tribalism is a powerful force Zambero May 2015 #213

tribalism. yea. and fascinating. yes. i think i might have to do some reading on your point. seabeyond May 2015 #214

the minute someone changes my words from a group of men, to ALL men, i am going to stop seabeyond May 2015 #215