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AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)

54. So good that it's top secret!!

Sun May 24, 2015, 03:56 AM

May 2015

They don't want people to know what's in it and the GOP are drooling all over themselves to get it passed. GOP plus economics = fucked.

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Can we agree that jobs are not the problem with TPP? [View all] ucrdem May 2015 OP

Nice charts. Expect *incoming* though! n/t freshwest May 2015 #1

Thanks fresh! ucrdem May 2015 #2

Worker rights protections, comparison of TPP to NAFTA: ucrdem May 2015 #3

Senator Warren Has Pointed Out The Truth - No Trade Protection Follow Through By The US cantbeserious May 2015 #6

Yes but she's looking in the rear-view. ucrdem May 2015 #8

If You Believe That anything Will Change With TPP - Well ... cantbeserious May 2015 #10

I got this neat mountain to sell him... eloydude May 2015 #135

Those who disregard their history are doomed to repeat it. merrily May 2015 #26

Right... daleanime May 2015 #155

Worker Rights, text and chart (bigger): ucrdem May 2015 #93

Nope. Not in the least. mikehiggins May 2015 #134

1.8 million new US jobs supported by exports: ucrdem May 2015 #4

If those charts are correct, we're doing just fine without the TPP, and will continue to do so. arcane1 May 2015 #126

Good point, but there's some variation in the numbers ucrdem May 2015 #127

Gee... why just exports, not *net* exports? MannyGoldstein May 2015 #129

You're talking about balance of payments? ucrdem May 2015 #131

It doesn't look that way to me. PETRUS May 2015 #137

Trade balance MannyGoldstein May 2015 #150

Okay. US trade balance seems to reflect total US trade volume ucrdem May 2015 #156

Doesn't seem terribly problematic? PETRUS May 2015 #162

The TPP already got someone a job ...making up those pdf's. L0oniX May 2015 #171

Jobs And Job Protection Is The Problem cantbeserious May 2015 #5

Yes, that's the idea of the thread, to identify how TPP is addressing these two issues. ucrdem May 2015 #7

Fool Me Once ... cantbeserious May 2015 #9

Okay but offshoring is created by tax incentives, not by trade deals. ucrdem May 2015 #12

Well I Guess Delusional Thinking Is Rampant And The Government Insists We Believe It cantbeserious May 2015 #17

Well, Carlin's a funny guy but he's definitely not the government . . . ucrdem May 2015 #18

As I See Things America Is A Shell Of Itself - Thanks To Bad Trade Deals cantbeserious May 2015 #19

It isn't secret. The reasons we can't see it is that it doesn't exist. ucrdem May 2015 #22

Yeah Right - Drafts Of The Document Do Exist - Even So, Why Can't We Read The Final For Review cantbeserious May 2015 #25

It's not a "rigged process," it's how our government works. ucrdem May 2015 #29

Yeah Right - How Much More Rigged Could The Process Be With The 1% Represented But Not The 99% cantbeserious May 2015 #32

Agreed, and remember the Congressional Budget Office found that NAFTA didn't cause job okaawhatever May 2015 #40

And Why Would Anyone Believe Anything The Government Says cantbeserious May 2015 #41

Because the Congressional Budget Office's data is highly respected. They are non-partisan & okaawhatever May 2015 #45

In The Modern Error - All Government Data Is Politicized - Why Else Have Secret Trade Deals cantbeserious May 2015 #49

The modern error seems to be everywhere these days. ucrdem May 2015 #52

It isn't a secret trade deal. It's a secret trade negotiation. Once the deal is finalized there will okaawhatever May 2015 #71

Interesting, I didn't know about the CBO study. ucrdem May 2015 #48

Yeah, that is part of the problem. There are too many moving pieces for the average journalist okaawhatever May 2015 #67

Deals written by lobbiests? AgingAmerican May 2015 #61

That's not the answer the Koch brothers get. merrily May 2015 #30

LOL, I doubt it. ucrdem May 2015 #36

No clue what your post is supposed to mean, but no worries. merrily May 2015 #43

I answered before your edits, which are equally baffling to me. nt ucrdem May 2015 #44

Before or after edits, your reply is not comprehensible to me, but, again, no worries. merrily May 2015 #46

So the charts in the OP are made-up hype and bullshit which should not be believed. bananas May 2015 #51

No, they are not. ucrdem May 2015 #53

If it doesn't exist yet, the charts are meaningless AgingAmerican May 2015 #60

It's an agenda. That's the title: President's Trade Agenda. ucrdem May 2015 #73

Do the GOP and corporate lobbyists have that agenda? AgingAmerican May 2015 #152

They have to be made up. earthside May 2015 #111

It is classified Top Secret AgingAmerican May 2015 #57

So I guess the OP is like Snowden revealing top secrets. L0oniX May 2015 #170

Well, since neither revealed any secrets, you have a point. nt ucrdem May 2015 #173

Offshoring is not created by tax incentives. lancer78 May 2015 #132

Growth of US manufacturing jobs: ucrdem May 2015 #11

What TPA is and isn't ucrdem May 2015 #13

Forgot to Rec. This is a bad time to get rated for more input. Almost 1 AM Pacific. Gotta go! freshwest May 2015 #14

Oh dang. Thanks for the heads up fresh. ucrdem May 2015 #15

p.s. that's the problem with this thing -- it's ginormous! ucrdem May 2015 #24

I can agree that whoring for corporations is what TPP is about n/t eridani May 2015 #16

Small business agenda: ucrdem May 2015 #21

Nothing says bullshit like corporate produced color glossy brochures eridani May 2015 #28

I thought you said corporations loved it? ucrdem May 2015 #33

Corporate bullshitters can afford glossy propaganda eridani May 2015 #35

El Salvador is not in the Pacific Rim. ucrdem May 2015 #38

El Salvador is in the Pacific Rim AgingAmerican May 2015 #65

LOL, you got me. But it's not a current TPP signatory. They are: ucrdem May 2015 #66

Then they are more fortunate than we AgingAmerican May 2015 #68

Nothing says bullshit like readersupportednews & common dreams. nt okaawhatever May 2015 #47

So sorry they aren't Republican enough for you n/t eridani May 2015 #139

No, they aren't accurate enough for me. I don't want propaganda, I want information. nt okaawhatever May 2015 #147

They are more accurate about TPP than anything the corporate whores have put out n/t eridani May 2015 #148

Nnnnnnope. cherokeeprogressive May 2015 #20

.... Art_from_Ark May 2015 #23

No, and jobs are by far not the only problem, either. Next question. merrily May 2015 #27

as GWBush called it, catapulting the propaganda. sure are pretty pictures n graphics tho nt msongs May 2015 #31

If you can't read the text, click the link and read the PDF in your browser. ucrdem May 2015 #34

Looks so slick as to be.. sendero May 2015 #97

Only a vicious amoral sociopath could be in favor of the following-- eridani May 2015 #37

Again? ucrdem May 2015 #39

You, like Senator Warren, don't do any research on the junk you post. For example, Hoyt May 2015 #116

Who should pay for it is obviously the little people eridani May 2015 #141

Usually when corporations fail, they pay arbitration costs. Hoyt May 2015 #142

As long as they don't mind killing their citizens to boost Big Pharma profits eridani May 2015 #146

Actually, you should read about drug costs in poor countries. Brand name drugs are Hoyt May 2015 #149

That's what the TPP is for--actively preventing ngegotiated drug prices. n/t eridani May 2015 #151

Well there goes more of our sovereignty but not the global corporations sovereignty. L0oniX May 2015 #172

Not about jobs, huh? Art_from_Ark May 2015 #42

Can you give any more info on the study? ucrdem May 2015 #50

Here's an article from the Japan Times that provides some background Art_from_Ark May 2015 #56

Okay thanks, but note the first one is two years old, ucrdem May 2015 #64

The last article is from last week Art_from_Ark May 2015 #72

Okay thanks. ucrdem May 2015 #75

No, the last article on my list is from this month Art_from_Ark May 2015 #76

Yes I gather. But I said your first link. ucrdem May 2015 #77

Okay #2 is from July 2013, and #3 is asking for transparency ucrdem May 2015 #87

oops .. wrong place ucrdem May 2015 #74

so basically the us would export cheap rice to japan questionseverything May 2015 #110

That table is far fetched shaayecanaan May 2015 #88

Sugar beets in Japan are used to make oligosaccharide Art_from_Ark May 2015 #90

That just reveals how fundamentally dishonest this is shaayecanaan May 2015 #140

So good that it's top secret!! AgingAmerican May 2015 #54

Republicans ALWAYS say their policies are good for jobs Enrique May 2015 #55

Because they aren't Republicans? Because NAFTA created millions of new US jobs? ucrdem May 2015 #58

I can think of at least 5 production facilities in my congressional district Art_from_Ark May 2015 #70

Well, they might move to Malaysia under TPP ucrdem May 2015 #78

Obama himself has blurred the partisan line. LWolf May 2015 #128

They polled the public and the public wants JOBS.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #59

Well, NAFTA delivered jobs by any metric ucrdem May 2015 #62

LOL!! Look how broad the definition of work is on that chart. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #122

what on earth do you think that chart proves? Warren Stupidity May 2015 #133

The sun came up the day after NAFTA was signed. Elwood P Dowd May 2015 #136

That's the labor participation rate bhikkhu May 2015 #153

Now I understand why I heard there were Unicorns in the Appendix. n/t jtuck004 May 2015 #83

It's always been geopolitical. joshcryer May 2015 #63

LOL, Pat Moynihan talked about it. ucrdem May 2015 #69

So did Nixon. joshcryer May 2015 #79

I know but I didn't want to mention it. ucrdem May 2015 #80

They did test trials and it was a disaster. joshcryer May 2015 #81

Interesting. ucrdem May 2015 #82

Hey, I just saw this, Warren Buffet is advocating EIC modifications: joshcryer May 2015 #85

Another Warren to worry about LOL ucrdem May 2015 #89

"the WH is doing a poor job " < Don't be hard on them. It's not easy selling dog shit once the jtuck004 May 2015 #84

They're still trying to call those dog turds "saucisson" Art_from_Ark May 2015 #86

Researchers now say that eating a single serving of processed meat every day could increase your jtuck004 May 2015 #92

NO anything that gives multinational corporations more power is not going to give us more GOOD jwirr May 2015 #91

no, but I bet most of us can agree that your OP TheSarcastinator May 2015 #94

What pretty pictures. Well they have to wrap up a shit sandwich in nice packaging somehow. Katashi_itto May 2015 #95

I don't know what your point is anymore, really. djean111 May 2015 #96

I thought we were all dying to know what the eeeevuhl was hiding from us? ucrdem May 2015 #98

Oh, that is not what I said, and you know it. And enough eeeevuhl (cute marginalizing trick, BTW) djean111 May 2015 #102

Okay well alrighty then. ucrdem May 2015 #104

Dear Goddess. You are serious. sheshe2 May 2015 #154

You are serious when you do not think Obama and the GOP are NOT working together on Fast Track? djean111 May 2015 #158

LOL, a funny thing happened on the way to the forum today . . . ucrdem May 2015 #185

Since we can not read it PowerToThePeople May 2015 #99

Yes, it would be hard to read as it doesn't yet exist. ucrdem May 2015 #100

Well, no need for the TPA until it exists and we have read it. PowerToThePeople May 2015 #101

It won't exist if TPA doesn't pass. But voting for TPA isn't voting for TPP, ucrdem May 2015 #103

That does not have to be the case PowerToThePeople May 2015 #105

Well the tricky parts are still being negotiated, like Japanese agricultural tariffs ucrdem May 2015 #109

It is not only voting for the TPP but whatever sewage comes down the pipe on trade for six years TheKentuckian May 2015 #143

So when members of Congress go into that room where they can read the TPP, but not take notes or djean111 May 2015 #106

Now you know their dark secrets. ucrdem May 2015 #107

Kind of bullshit, saying we cannot read the TPP because the "agreement" does not yet exist. djean111 May 2015 #108

Well if you really want a sneak preview I'm giving you one. ucrdem May 2015 #112

No, you are giving me the Official Story. No thanks. djean111 May 2015 #113

Unmitigated bullshit. TBF May 2015 #115

Repetition is not truth. Chan790 May 2015 #138

I don't want the glossy sales brochure - TBF May 2015 #114

It's too complicated for your pretty little head. Just sign it. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #123

Good work, ucr. Obama and/or TPP haters won't read it, anymore than they'd read the final Hoyt May 2015 #117

Hey thanks Hoyt! ucrdem May 2015 #118

I won't mention the poster's name, but we had one who went from saying it's a "secret agreement" Hoyt May 2015 #120

LOL, that's progress, I guess ucrdem May 2015 #121

"Obama/TPP haters" AgingAmerican May 2015 #166

Nice shiny propaganda from the U.S. Government nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #119

I'd post that Joseph Goebbels award but I got a hide the last time I did. L0oniX May 2015 #169

It is far more sophisticated nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #176

Enforcement: dispute resolution in action, 2014 (pg. 35): ucrdem May 2015 #124

More on ISDS from USTR: ucrdem May 2015 #125

! Phlem May 2015 #130

This thread did not go very well lol. Rex May 2015 #174

Agreed. Phlem May 2015 #182

Corporate mission statements and ambiguous negotiating positions are not the deal TheKentuckian May 2015 #144

Possibly but it sure beats what we're getting from the pundits. ucrdem May 2015 #145

Even a great press would put little stock in corporate mission statements being conflated with TheKentuckian May 2015 #159

LOL, nice pretty charts. B Calm May 2015 #157

If you don't read it, you aren't considering both sides treestar May 2015 #160

It appears to me that many people are keenly aware of both sides. PETRUS May 2015 #161

Okay you didn't read it. ucrdem May 2015 #163

It is possible to read it yet not be fooled by it. PETRUS May 2015 #164

You think this thing can be reduced to five buzzwords? ucrdem May 2015 #165

What "thing?" PETRUS May 2015 #167

29 volumes of legislation negotiated between 12 nations and probably thousands of orgs ucrdem May 2015 #168

You left out part of my equation. PETRUS May 2015 #175

Marx and Engels were writing in Dickens' London ironically enough. ucrdem May 2015 #178

Two things: PETRUS May 2015 #180

Okay, but you didn't give me much to go on ucrdem May 2015 #181

It's more informative than "both sides," yet I don't see you pouncing on that terminology. PETRUS May 2015 #183

No one side of TPP is going to lead to all this doom and gloom treestar May 2015 #177

Exactly. ucrdem May 2015 #179

See posts 164 and what follows. PETRUS May 2015 #184

It's nonthinking and doesn't reach the issue treestar May 2015 #186

TPP at-a-glance ucrdem Jun 2015 #187