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okaawhatever

(9,461 posts)
36. No, the report dosn't get bad for NAFTA. I only picked out the parts that directly addressed
Tue May 26, 2015, 01:04 PM
May 2015

his statements, plus I added the overview.

Your information isn't correct on several points:

1. The Peso Crisis didn't have anything to do with the farmers. In fact, it happened the same year NAFTA went into effect, before there were agriculture issues. It had to do with politics, foreign investment, local strife, currency issues and the assassination of the Presidential candidate.

For more info see wiki. All the info is from legitimate sources, most from Brookings, The Economist and economics textbooks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_peso_crisis

2. Mexican farmers were given subsidies to help with the effects on NAFTA. Some $20 Billion dollars worth. Farm jobs were lost, that was expected and provisions were made to help them. If Mexico is to decrease their poverty, they can't rely on labor intensive practices that don't allow them to compete in the market. Of course, part of the problem was the corruption in Mexico and how too much of the money went to the larger companies and to graft. Excellent report on that from the Woodrow Wilson Center for International Scholars. It's titled Subsidizing Inequality: Mexican Corn Policy Since NAFTA

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Subsidizing_Inequality_Ch_0_contents_and_summary_findings.pdf

3. Yes, the devaluation of the Peso led to companies moving there that hadn't planned to. But again, the Peso Crisis wasn't caused by NAFTA, and even without NAFTA the report finds that companies would have moved there anyway. The Peso Crisis and deep recession changed everything. The question becomes, which events occured because of the peso crisis and which occured because of NAFTA.

4. The report doesn't "bury the most significant numbers with lame excuses". The trade deficit is explained and backed up by verifiable data. The US has a boom, we added 22.5 MILLION new jobs in this country. When that happens demand increases. Demand for imports grew from every country. Not only did we have a hugely increased demand for goods, Mexico's goods were now cheaper than ever due to the Peso devaluation. Mexico had a deep recession losing almost 10% of its GDP. As a result, their imports decreased. The question is, was it a result of NAFTA? The answer is no see point #1.

NAFTA had a modest effect on U.S.-Mexico trade growth.

The CBO, World Bank, and USITC approached the problem differently, but all found that NAFTA
had a modest effect on U.S.-Mexico trade growth. The CBO model of U.S.-Mexico trade
estimated that 85% of the U.S. export growth and 91% of U.S. import growth would have
occurred without NAFTA.
Although the effect was modest, it accelerated over time,
accounting for a 2% marginal growth of U.S. exports and imports in1994 up to11% and
8% marginal growth of U.S. exports and imports in 2001. As a percentage of economic
activity, the increased trade was more pronounced for Mexico than the United States.
Separately, the World Bank makes the point that NAFTA has reinforced existing trends
in trade growth and estimates that Mexico’s global exports would have been 25% lower
without NAFTA.2


So NAFTA increased imports 9% and increased EXPORTS 15%, and as noted something that has grown over time. They also found that Mexico's exports to countries other than the US has increased 25%.

5. Yes the report is 10 years old. The EPI report from 2011 deals with NAFTA up until 2006. It claims that the job losses from 2007-2010 were economy wide. (due to the recession).


As of 2010, U.S. trade deficits with Mexico totaling $97.2 billion had displaced 682,900 U.S. jobs. Of those jobs, 116,400 are likely economy-wide job losses because they were displaced between 2007 and 2010, when the U.S. labor market was severely depressed.


Note that the author of this article, Robert Scott, refers to job losses as a result of the "trade deficits with Mexico" and not NAFTA. His methodology is to take the dollar amount of trade deficit and calculate the number of jobs striclty from the amount of the trade deficit. He doesn't look for ACTUAL job losses. Based on his methodology, if a factory in Mexico makes $1 widgets to export to the US, then switches to making $10 wigets Americans have lost jobs. The number of imports hasn't changed, nor has a single American lost a job, but to him there is now a higher trade deficit and his methodology says that increased trade deficit means lost jobs. A sixth grader can see the logic fail there. Besides, why is he using that when there is ACTUAL data available?
K&R liberal_at_heart May 2015 #1
Rec! progressoid May 2015 #2
I pledge allegiance to the meme that Bill Clinton destroyed America ucrdem May 2015 #3
Pssst....NAFTA didn't end in 2000. jeff47 May 2015 #14
At the start of 2001 Clintonomics ended and Terranomics began. ucrdem May 2015 #16
No, at the start of 2001 the dot-com bubble burst. jeff47 May 2015 #20
What is Terranomics? Jack Rabbit May 2015 #27
Basically, it's consumer economics. Belief that a country can grow economically through Exilednight May 2015 #44
Yep. What percentage of those jobs are living wage jobs like the ones that went overseas? jwirr May 2015 #26
Tariffs on imports from Mexico averaged 4% before NAFTA. Inequality had been rising since 1969. pampango May 2015 #4
+10 ucrdem May 2015 #6
Screw that bullshit Art_from_Ark May 2015 #9
So you are saying that NAFTA had nothing to do with job lose in this country? And that is also has jwirr May 2015 #28
RW meme? cui bono May 2015 #53
You're making the mistake of thinking that NAFTA is about trade. jeff47 May 2015 #12
Many will be interested to know that NAFTA was not about trade. pampango May 2015 #24
Well, the "giving a blowjob to Wall Street agreement" didn't focus group as well. jeff47 May 2015 #25
I don't believe that FDR was the "Wall Street" blowjob" kind of guy. pampango May 2015 #33
We aren't in 1936 anymore, and our trading partners aren't only in Europe. jeff47 May 2015 #41
Great post. pampango May 2015 #45
In a sense, you are correct, but in practice .... Exilednight May 2015 #55
The question is not each country is capable of producing safe food products. The question is will jwirr May 2015 #31
"How is the USDA going to protect us from unsafe foods from other countries?" The same way pampango May 2015 #34
It is a matter of trust. As to inside the USA the USDA has the authority to do that. I will turn the jwirr May 2015 #35
I don't want them "unlabeled". I want them to be 'labeled' (certified) as safe to eat. pampango May 2015 #42
I trust most people but not with my food. jwirr May 2015 #43
I don't trust everyone with my food either, but their nationality is not the issue. n/t pampango May 2015 #46
That is actually one of the big points about TPP. There will be universal labeling standards (which okaawhatever May 2015 #48
Universal labeling standards Art_from_Ark May 2015 #52
Yeah, just look at the WTO ruling on the meat labeling. cui bono May 2015 #54
NAFTA made it easy for US manufacturing to relocate to Mexico brentspeak May 2015 #17
Do you think that WTO rules would not protect manufacturers in Mexico as they have pampango May 2015 #21
If you think that's bad... Art_from_Ark May 2015 #5
The EPI report is deeply flawed. The Congressional Research Service came out with okaawhatever May 2015 #7
Had never seen this before. Thanks for posting it. n/t pampango May 2015 #8
That CRS report is over ten years old brentspeak May 2015 #11
The EPI study, and the claims made in this "report" are laughable. A sixth grader can see the okaawhatever May 2015 #23
Except your report stops when the story would be bad for NAFTA. jeff47 May 2015 #18
No, the report dosn't get bad for NAFTA. I only picked out the parts that directly addressed okaawhatever May 2015 #36
Yes, it really does. jeff47 May 2015 #38
Having read several reports how jobs has been lost, I have not seen a sturdy which gives Thinkingabout May 2015 #29
You deal with those by looking at changes in trade between the countries. jeff47 May 2015 #40
These job losses was due to rechnology advancement, I rather think the Thinkingabout May 2015 #49
Right. That's how you exclude those losses from the analysis. (nt) jeff47 May 2015 #50
The screwjob so nice... they want to do it twice. AzDar May 2015 #10
And the TPP will be NAFTA cubed. Baitball Blogger May 2015 #13
It's too bad you are part of the 'social issues don't matter' crowd because some of the strongest Bluenorthwest May 2015 #15
Silly. That was 20 years ago. You can't keep blaming the Clintons for that forever. L0oniX May 2015 #19
HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT May 2015 #22
Recent book with analysis of how NAFTA effected real ppl Spiggitzfan May 2015 #30
Let's assume for a moment that Public Citizen is right and we lost 1 million jobs to Mexico/Canada. Hoyt May 2015 #32
Yes, and Mexico had been losing jobs to China before signing NAFTA. Also, the 1 million okaawhatever May 2015 #37
It will be nice when Mexico advances similar to us or Canada. North America will be a cool place Hoyt May 2015 #39
Have you ever been to Mexico? a la izquierda May 2015 #56
We must put Mr. and Mrs. Nafta back in the White House!!!!1111 bigwillq May 2015 #47
She won't take credit for that or the TPP . orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #51
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