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fishwax

(29,346 posts)

95. I don't see what ismnotwasm said as saying men suck--rather, that men aren't contained

Reply to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #42)

Tue May 26, 2015, 02:10 PM

May 2015

or defined by the box/framework our culture often provides (or insists upon) for them.

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The male suicides: Social perfectionism is killing men � and things are getting worse [View all] Katashi_itto May 2015 OP

Gender differences in suicide. merrily May 2015 #1

This is an important subject. Bonobo May 2015 #2

I think in part because girls are trained in forced passivity magical thyme May 2015 #4

Totally agree! I think both sexes are forced into...Templates? Katashi_itto May 2015 #5

Templates seems like an apt word. nt Bonobo May 2015 #6

So, how do we change men's template? KitSileya May 2015 #104

Got me, I've no idea. Katashi_itto May 2015 #107

Why not ask men who are generally happy and have a fairly optimistic, positive worldview? Warren DeMontague May 2015 #145

Radical notion indeed. KitSileya May 2015 #156

the question had to do with men who were unhappy, subjectively, presumably with their own Warren DeMontague May 2015 #170

What about single mothers? treestar May 2015 #16

You're right. Male suicide is not an important subject. nt Bonobo May 2015 #19

Yeah I mean it's so much more important than female suicide treestar May 2015 #20

That's how gaspee May 2015 #28

the article doesn't even give a percentage treestar May 2015 #46

I just wonder why they even need help hfojvt May 2015 #86

Oh my god - are you for real? Wow. closeupready May 2015 #32

I agree. Until men stop trying to dominate and subjugate women... Liberal_Stalwart71 May 2015 #164

Such a vile and vicious attitude, blinded by ideology. snagglepuss May 2015 #22

Men commit suicide more IN EVERY COUNTRY. Bonobo May 2015 #24

Yeah, agreed. I think THAT one is another for my ignore list. closeupready May 2015 #33

Are you sure you are responding to the right post? snagglepuss May 2015 #37

I know, I only responded to you because Bonobo May 2015 #136

You are right: Attack, diminish, attack, diminish -- all the time. Eleanors38 May 2015 #84

Yes, they do. polly7 May 2015 #90

Men are privileged treestar May 2015 #25

Instead of hijacking someone elses thread, create your own GummyBearz May 2015 #30

Once you bring that into play treestar May 2015 #47

Of course female suicide is just as important, but apparently it isn't as common. dawg May 2015 #35

They make more attempts treestar May 2015 #48

Why do you think men are so much more likely to choose methods that insure immediate death ... dawg May 2015 #53

it seems from the reasons given treestar May 2015 #69

I agree that feminism would solve most of this. dawg May 2015 #72

my mom committed suicide. her first attempt pills. second that was successful was garage. seabeyond May 2015 #81

I'm so sorry that happened. dawg May 2015 #94

suicide is a whole different world and thinking, for sure. nt seabeyond May 2015 #96

And that privilege manifests as a suicide rate twice as high... lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #57

But how does it manifest itself in so many other areas? treestar May 2015 #71

"one thing where men have it worse" = survival. lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #73

wow you are sad Snow Leopard May 2015 #114

Just Wow Katashi_itto May 2015 #45

Men's suicide = "Problems" lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #50

That's complete nonsense. Oneironaut May 2015 #83

"This is trying to claim sympathy for the privileged." NaturalHigh May 2015 #122

Amazing how issues that affect men.. MicaelS May 2015 #131

Lose the privilege dogma romanic May 2015 #151

Not just grown men. Three of my childhood friends offspring committed suicide. All boys. lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #41

feminists are on board. we, i, have been talking about this for a lot of years now. seabeyond May 2015 #54

I lost my stepdad and my uncle and a friend. bravenak May 2015 #118

the biggest thing stopping men from getting help is themselves Skittles May 2015 #121

I know that myself and everyone I know (male) are stuck in a sort Katashi_itto May 2015 #3

And you think women aren't? gaspee May 2015 #27

I agree. See post #5 Katashi_itto May 2015 #49

Being a man in this society is... conflicted. davidthegnome May 2015 #7

Great post. dawg May 2015 #10

Beautiful post, David. Bonobo May 2015 #15

This should be shared...very poignant, and needed, thank you for sharing... AuntPatsy May 2015 #23

Wonderful post David. Compassion has helped me deal with a lot in life, and not just compassion liberal_at_heart May 2015 #29

Please consider making this an OP! demmiblue May 2015 #36

gotta stop right there hfojvt May 2015 #92

The intent was not to describe them at any length. davidthegnome May 2015 #163

+1 Pooka Fey May 2015 #143

This is a very real thing. dawg May 2015 #8

"Why Men Die Younger Than Women: The 'Guys Are Fragile' Thesis" TexasProgresive May 2015 #9

We don't live THAT much longer treestar May 2015 #17

What you say is true but have you ever visted an "old folks" home TexasProgresive May 2015 #18

At the turn of the last century, men and women had roughly equal lifespans (about 47 years). lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #44

I see according to the CIA's World Fact Book TexasProgresive May 2015 #63

Good data. Thanks. Eleanors38 May 2015 #87

life expectancy at birth hfojvt May 2015 #93

"They oughta" lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #106

actually here is some other data hfojvt May 2015 #111

For a long time 1939 May 2015 #100

About as common as widows were. lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #108

men are physically stronger but women are biologically stronger Skittles May 2015 #137

"physically stronger vs. biologically stronger" Bonobo May 2015 #139

we outlive y'all Skittles May 2015 #140

Interesting. Thank you for the link. nt Bonobo May 2015 #141

Thanks, Skittles, that's the point I was trying to make. TexasProgresive May 2015 #152

Aha! my tongue in check theory is nearer to the truth than I assumed. TexasProgresive May 2015 #153

K and R NaturalHigh May 2015 #11

This is why Dudeism, while intentionally a joke religion deutsey May 2015 #12

+1 n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #51

Margaret Sanger likely played a part in that life expectancy improvement, as well. MADem May 2015 #65

Truth pscot May 2015 #85

I agree with this philosophy, with an important caveat... Eleanors38 May 2015 #89

The dude abides Pooka Fey May 2015 #144

The Patriarchy hurts men, too. Brickbat May 2015 #13

Exactly. dawg May 2015 #34

Our culture lies to us in a variety of ways. LuvNewcastle May 2015 #14

So dysfunctional men turn their anger outwards on women/children/gays or themselves. KittyWampus May 2015 #21

As do dysfunctional women, the problem as I see it is that men took the reigns early on, AuntPatsy May 2015 #26

"Everything is problematic" Prism May 2015 #31

Social perfectionism??!! ananda May 2015 #38

I'm very supportive of men's group that educate on toxic masculinities ismnotwasm May 2015 #39

So, men's groups in which we discuss how much we suck... are okay? This would reduce suicide? lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #42

"So, men's groups in which we discuss how much we suck... are okay?" NaturalHigh May 2015 #59

You either. ismnotwasm May 2015 #76

See the last line of Post #80. NaturalHigh May 2015 #82

Sweet Jesus. ismnotwasm May 2015 #75

You posted your touching family story, and it was quite good. lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #80

Wasn't talking to you darlin' ismnotwasm May 2015 #91

I don't see what ismnotwasm said as saying men suck--rather, that men aren't contained fishwax May 2015 #95

Men should be able to adopt a male template of their own choosing lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #105

I agree that they should fishwax May 2015 #113

I strongly believe that kids need positive male role models lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #123

i agree on both counts fishwax May 2015 #125

Why can't men just be allowed to be people? leftstreet May 2015 #119

Because boys and girls mature by modeling adult behavior. lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #124

When I became disabled UglyGreed May 2015 #40

My husband has MS ismnotwasm May 2015 #43

Thank you for your reply UglyGreed May 2015 #56

You are very welcome! ismnotwasm May 2015 #78

Your husband is fortunate to have a strong partner who rejects traditional gender norms. dawg May 2015 #58

This is so true ismnotwasm May 2015 #77

This probably doesn't help, but I'd like to follow your path whatthehey May 2015 #88

Thank you for your reply UglyGreed May 2015 #166

hey Skittles May 2015 #138

Possibly it was my good fortune to be rejected as a child and as a teen by that man-cult. hunter May 2015 #52

raising two boys, two nephews, growning up with two brothers, we have created a hell seabeyond May 2015 #55

I think most thinking men would admit that women still have it far worse than men ... dawg May 2015 #60

my 17 yr old bbq burgers for his guy friends, with my oldest son home from university. i was talking seabeyond May 2015 #62

It's always hard to know a person just from what they post on the internet, but ... dawg May 2015 #68

lol.... we think so. but then i feel the same about them. thank you. nt seabeyond May 2015 #70

I have to agree with Dawg. You seem like a fantastic mother closeupready May 2015 #169

Men are also far more likely than women to take out other people before committing suicide. Arugula Latte May 2015 #61

Certainly a mixed bag of issues that contribute The2ndWheel May 2015 #64

Thanks for posting Major Nikon May 2015 #66

+100 n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #74

The Pain of Modern Life polly7 May 2015 #67

"Why do these �pressures of life� exist at all?" The2ndWheel May 2015 #79

My Dad shot himself four years ago. polly7 May 2015 #97

Mine did the same three years ago. cwydro May 2015 #98

I'm sorry, cwydro. polly7 May 2015 #99

I know how you feel. cwydro May 2015 #101

Oh, I so wish my dad had left one. polly7 May 2015 #102

Glad you have those memories. cwydro May 2015 #103

this thread is depressing for more reasons than one DonCoquixote May 2015 #109

Brilliantly said! Katashi_itto May 2015 #110

Dealing with this again this month. There's a perception of failure. Prism May 2015 #112

While not impossible, it does get tougher to change direction as you get older The2ndWheel May 2015 #120

Not if your happiness is a priority over some arbitrary goal, it isn't. bettyellen May 2015 #127

Happiness is as arbitrary as anything else The2ndWheel May 2015 #150

Leading a life of misery to impress others is not a valid option. bettyellen May 2015 #158

kicked Blue_Tires May 2015 #115

One should have more appreciation for gender benders and other gender non-conformists AZ Progressive May 2015 #116

I think thats where the MRAs..the real twisted ones spring from. Katashi_itto May 2015 #117

Insightful. Extrinsic vs Intrinsic lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #126

You totally missed the part where this "Intrisic value" view is bullshit? bettyellen May 2015 #128

Oh I doubt the point was missed DonCoquixote May 2015 #133

More women are plunged into poverty by divorce and/or lack of child support more than bettyellen May 2015 #129

That article is fucking clueless about women.... bettyellen May 2015 #130

what needs to be added DonCoquixote May 2015 #134

The article was intended to offer insight into the more self-damaging aspects of male identity. Bonobo May 2015 #135

Yes, because only women are victims, and men are all perpetrators... AZ Progressive May 2015 #142

Stop making shit up. Seriously. The article claimed the opposite bettyellen May 2015 #159

This article isn't about women davidn3600 May 2015 #161

It refer to women- how our jobs are not important because they are still "feminine" if they lose bettyellen May 2015 #167

The world does not revolve around you. closeupready May 2015 #162

The world revolves around women as much as men. The authors brought up this stupid idea bettyellen May 2015 #168

Great article Katashi_itto, lots of good information to think about. polly7 May 2015 #132

Article says in Western countries "more women attempt suicide than men." betsuni May 2015 #146

That's pretty bad if it said that. Can you paste the quote here? Bonobo May 2015 #148

Edit: I should know not to reply to this person. Not of interest. betsuni May 2015 #149

This paragraph? Bonobo May 2015 #154

Mass consumerism has it's down sides. We can't all be successful and drive a Lexus. Rex May 2015 #147

"Social Perfectionism" LWolf May 2015 #155

Human culture is as dominant and pervasive on the planet The2ndWheel May 2015 #157

Maybe. LWolf May 2015 #160

Human beings have a great track record when The2ndWheel May 2015 #165