General Discussion

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)

10. I think it's a completely manufactured division that simply doesn't reflect reality.

Wed May 27, 2015, 12:32 AM

May 2015

No rational political analyst would EVER try to assert that somehow Bernie Sanders, or someone like Liz Warren for that matter, would ever be less committedly "liberal" on social issues than Hillary Clinton. That's fucking ridiculous. Sanders and Warren are not coming from the wing of the party which brought us triangulation, DOMA, and pandering to "values voters". It's a complete crock.

It's a story that someone invented out of thin air for DU, as near as I can tell, because the actual parameters of the actual political field are not favorable to some imaginary "white male Democratic Party elites out to stop Hillary Clinton's express train of social progress" narrative.

It's on the level of Orwell--- "war is peace"- the idea that somehow the people fighting for a livable min. wage or bank reform or a SPHC system, are the real 1%ers, oppressing the masses.

It wouldn't fly most places, the fact that some people have bought into it in GD doesn't speak well for their grasp on reality.

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What needs to happen to heal DU's unnecessary "social issues vs. economic issues" divide? [View all] Ken Burch May 2015 OP

If a few more of us developed the capacity to say "yes & yes", both/and, etc. 99th_Monkey May 2015 #1

I think they're absolutely intertwined TDale313 May 2015 #2

White people, often men, need to start listening harder Starry Messenger May 2015 #3

solutions that would help white people? Enrique May 2015 #4

Whatever it is that is favored over the reforms that would focus on non-whites, women, etc. Starry Messenger May 2015 #5

great idea. list some reforms specifically and how they will benefit all people, non white people, msongs May 2015 #6

Bringing back voting rights expansion would help immeasurably. Starry Messenger May 2015 #8

Appropriate more $'s for voting equipment in Urban area's One_Life_To_Give May 2015 #108

The 2013 repeal of Section 4 of the VRA made it much worse. Starry Messenger May 2015 #118

Thank you. nt. NCTraveler May 2015 #119

Well gosh. Starry Messenger May 2015 #9

thanks Enrique May 2015 #11

economic reforms, for instance, creating jobs through rebuilding infrastructure cali May 2015 #14

your opinion is not a wedge because of your gender hfojvt May 2015 #90

If you honestly feel insulted by that... YoungDemCA May 2015 #93

How did you get "shut up and sit down" out of "listen"? Starry Messenger May 2015 #105

it's an honest paraphrase hfojvt May 2015 #109

Presumably, in the future, you'll know what "being a liar" is Starry Messenger May 2015 #112

er, okay hfojvt May 2015 #114

I didn't think that's what the poster meant leftstreet May 2015 #142

Getting rid of free trade deals is a good start AgingAmerican May 2015 #47

they are concerned about being shot in the back by the police, not free trade. part of marketing. seabeyond May 2015 #53

Free trade deals AgingAmerican May 2015 #62

and STILL, the blacks are focused on cops shooting them in the back. not even a thought from you. seabeyond May 2015 #65

You keep going back to the symptoms AgingAmerican May 2015 #74

Black people, like other people, can focus on more than one thing at a time. Comrade Grumpy May 2015 #145

can we sit at the table too? seeing death is a HUGE issue. i am not the one making it an either, or. seabeyond May 2015 #147

No, I've tried and was sent to my room, Why because I don't support Hillary . n/t orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #176

Does that move the needle for LGBT people who can be fired in several states for being gay? Starry Messenger May 2015 #63

Wresting power back from the oligarchy helps everyone AgingAmerican May 2015 #110

"When we the people hold the power, civil rights can be properly addressed." Starry Messenger May 2015 #115

yes, blacks and other minorities did not benefit from the programs to help people get housing JI7 May 2015 #127

And the 2008 recession hit blacks and minorities the hardest. Starry Messenger May 2015 #132

+1000 !!!! orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #177

In other words BainsBane May 2015 #106

You can try to make it about me AgingAmerican May 2015 #111

The point isn't TPP BainsBane May 2015 #130

Education is the key AgingAmerican May 2015 #169

I wish I had said that, like that . It's true the misery is needless orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #159

+10000. This. YoungDemCA May 2015 #75

1. Stop pretending they are separate, zero sum topics. Bonobo May 2015 #7

Any economically populist platform that doesn't have feminism and civil rights as its focus YoungDemCA May 2015 #71

I think it's a completely manufactured division that simply doesn't reflect reality. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #10

Social justice doesn't cost the 0.01% much, economic justice does cost them Fumesucker May 2015 #13

Hammer, meet nail. LuvNewcastle May 2015 #17

You need to support that assertion. Recently the largest expansion of Social Security benefits Bluenorthwest May 2015 #18

It's easy to see that one party uses social issues to distract from economic ones Fumesucker May 2015 #20

Respond to what I posted, do not tell me to accept your crap unsupported and undiscussed. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #24

From where I sit you come across as rude priveleged and arrogant Fumesucker May 2015 #73

A personal attack, you still have not spoken about the facts I raised, now you are attacking me Bluenorthwest May 2015 #120

So what does it say about people who claim to care about economic issues that they don't even Bluenorthwest May 2015 #33

Wedge issues are for other people YoungDemCA May 2015 #92

What expansion was that? BuelahWitch May 2015 #139

I am unsure, but I think they could be talking about this. PowerToThePeople May 2015 #150

Thanks for the explanation BuelahWitch May 2015 #153

My rights aren't something you can barter away./NT DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #38

Then don't let the Republicans and the Democrats do that Fumesucker May 2015 #77

You are correct. And your question is good. "Why is it so difficult to accept that the Democrats GoneFishin May 2015 #68

Actually social justice costs them a whole lot AgingAmerican May 2015 #51

Oh for fuck's sake YoungDemCA May 2015 #89

unfortunately that is a false division hfojvt May 2015 #95

^^^^^^This is the correct answer.^^^^^^ woo me with science May 2015 #15

Great post, great answer Pooka Fey May 2015 #16

It comes from 'cross party politics' not Democratic Party politics. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #26

+1. n/t Jefferson23 May 2015 #28

Pushed by 'Third Way®' people AgingAmerican May 2015 #50

+1,000 LondonReign2 May 2015 #57

I agree, and I think we need to think about who this benefits. TBF May 2015 #60

well said hfojvt May 2015 #121

Yes. It's silly, transparent, completely unsupportable, and painfully embarrassing. Zorra May 2015 #126

actually there are more than a couple PowerToThePeople May 2015 #12

It would help if people didn't dismiss issues of racism and sexism gollygee May 2015 #19

The way they carry on is the antithesis of how Bernie carries himself, this is a fact. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #23

I don't see that. far from it. i see Bernie supporters stressing over and over again his excellent cali May 2015 #31

I said "not all Bernie Sanders supporters" gollygee May 2015 #35

Dismiss? Bullshit, what you are seeing is well deserved pushback at dismissing all other areas as TheKentuckian May 2015 #184

For years at DU, we've seen a group of people gollygee May 2015 #187

The OP's that use combative terminology, posted repeatedly by the same handful of straight, white Bluenorthwest May 2015 #21

Where did this divison even come from? romanic May 2015 #22

It is owned and operated by a handful of DU posters, all of whom bait minorities in various ways Bluenorthwest May 2015 #27

For me, personally, things like using the fucking Pope as a mouthpiece for economic causes is hugely PeaceNikki May 2015 #25

the hypocrisy burns. Hillary spends fifteen years in a close relationship cali May 2015 #34

Why do you keep making this into a discussion about Hillary? PeaceNikki May 2015 #36

Regarding the Pope, its a matter of tone, not substance. bklyncowgirl May 2015 #101

Thank you for your patronizing reply on how *I* could be more productive in the face of my rights PeaceNikki May 2015 #138

If a reasonably progressive person does not win the presidency we will all lose. bklyncowgirl May 2015 #171

I mean, I know I'm influential and shit, PeaceNikki May 2015 #172

I think if we kept in mind that the Democratic party is made up of all kinds of Democrats justiceischeap May 2015 #29

That's where I am. Starry Messenger May 2015 #30

I agree. This race is about SCOTUS more than anything else. PeaceNikki May 2015 #32

Yes, for me it is climate change. I think the next decade will be the nail in the coffin. raouldukelives May 2015 #40

They won't listen, they want their straight white male-dominated "economic populism" YoungDemCA May 2015 #81

The comfortably well off and relatively secure squealing like stuck pigs because there is finally TheKentuckian May 2015 #37

The comfortably well off and relatively secure? YoungDemCA May 2015 #79

Well yes, that does in a broad way describe the Third Wayers LondonReign2 May 2015 #154

Sounds like you like to throw out some lame, know nothing last refuge, got nothing bullshit. TheKentuckian May 2015 #183

is it 100% or GTFO? alc May 2015 #39

It's a divide on a message board, not one that seems to exist much on the ground. N/T Chathamization May 2015 #41

It isn't real, it's a disguise. The real issue is identity politics; Bernie is a white guy. lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #42

Oh, the poor white men. Lyric May 2015 #43

... DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #46

interesting. there is a lot of story in this song. tentacles hitting a lot of directions. nt seabeyond May 2015 #52

Exhibit #1 n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #102

you might want to start by looking at the replies, dismissing, insulting, ridiculing members that seabeyond May 2015 #44

Social issues ARE economic and vice versa. alarimer May 2015 #45

this is where you are wrong. many minorities have pointed out the flaw in this argument. seabeyond May 2015 #55

This one should cut every single du-er JustAnotherGen May 2015 #113

second. as a sander supporter i called the demographics. middle/upper middle, white, man, educated seabeyond May 2015 #48

and... this is only the beginning. there is so much more. OR. we can pretend i am the boogey man seabeyond May 2015 #49

Was that post in a GD thread? JustAnotherGen May 2015 #56

and he reiterated to me personally in replies, that it is a silly issue to discuss, one way or seabeyond May 2015 #58

Oooh boy JustAnotherGen May 2015 #72

The Republicans have effectively take control of local and state governments seabeyond May 2015 #78

This is why I think I'm going to run for Town Council JustAnotherGen May 2015 #85

i have another year. then i can jump in. the last four years, i have learned a lot. what we need. seabeyond May 2015 #87

Ahh - I've been pretty blunt IRL JustAnotherGen May 2015 #88

I cannot WAIT to knock on doors for you, sister! bettyellen May 2015 #173

I agree except the 'privileged college students' part AgingAmerican May 2015 #61

you did not fulling understand what i am saying. it is not ALL of the college students jumping on seabeyond May 2015 #64

My anxiety about focusing strictly on the collegiate bound JustAnotherGen May 2015 #84

so many issues. and yes, to all you say. seabeyond May 2015 #91

Agree totally AgingAmerican May 2015 #94

Who called you a name? NaturalHigh May 2015 #100

I think - nothing can or should be done about the divide(?) JustAnotherGen May 2015 #54

here is another angle. every time the posters tell us social is connected to economic, seabeyond May 2015 #59

Name one country with no economic justice AgingAmerican May 2015 #67

again, you did not discuss the concern of the oppressed minority in my post, only your concern of seabeyond May 2015 #70

There are no countries without economic justice AgingAmerican May 2015 #76

all about economic justice. i got that. i get that is the argument. i have listened to sander seabeyond May 2015 #80

"do not ask me for a link. it is right here." NaturalHigh May 2015 #86

It's all tied in together, you cannot separate them AgingAmerican May 2015 #96

i am not cutting off my nose to spite shit. fiscally? sanders is all about me, taking care of me. seabeyond May 2015 #98

Sanders is all about you? AgingAmerican May 2015 #103

look at his demographics and get back to me. seabeyond May 2015 #104

So lack of economic opportunity helps blacks/people of color? AgingAmerican May 2015 #107

No, but several countries have neared economic justice because they first had social justice KitSileya May 2015 #116

+1 YoungDemCA May 2015 #161

People need to stop being jerks Prism May 2015 #66

Well put. [n/t] Maedhros May 2015 #82

nice post n/t fishwax May 2015 #140

It's easy to focus on money when your basic civil and human rights aren't under constant threat YoungDemCA May 2015 #69

Who benefits by division? The 1%, of course. guillaumeb May 2015 #83

They are both necessary. kentuck May 2015 #97

will you acknowledge a minority can have economic comfort and still experience social injustice? nt seabeyond May 2015 #99

And could we acknowledge that we can have social justice and economic injustice? kentuck May 2015 #117

i have repeatedly stated and acknowledge we can have both. hence supporting sanders. the struggle is seabeyond May 2015 #122

I think that is only a temporary illusion... kentuck May 2015 #128

and again. of course we need both. hence supporting sanders WHILE asking to sit at table for social seabeyond May 2015 #152

You have as much right to sit at the table as anyone else. n/t. Ken Burch May 2015 #181

If Matthew Robinson, PhD is correct in defining social justice as... LanternWaste May 2015 #123

Good point. kentuck May 2015 #134

Tangentially, rather than closely connected. LanternWaste May 2015 #141

The notion that "social" and "economics" are NOT the same comes from capitalism. McCamy Taylor May 2015 #124

I think it would help if self-proclaimed leftists quit targeting ordinary Democrats BainsBane May 2015 #125

*mic drop* Starry Messenger May 2015 #129

As you can see BainsBane May 2015 #131

You should write that up and submit it somewhere. Starry Messenger May 2015 #133

It is beautiful. And I agree completely. freshwest Jun 2015 #188

I wish I could recommend your post. KMOD May 2015 #135

I feel like I need a cigarette now. sufrommich May 2015 #137

That is perfection ismnotwasm May 2015 #146

Oh hell yeah Bobbie Jo May 2015 #155

This is one of the best posts I've ever seen here YoungDemCA May 2015 #158

You all are very kind. nt BainsBane May 2015 #165

You are dangerous and I love you! Thanks again. n/t freshwest Jun 2015 #189

Good Lord. You are absolutely WASTED on this web site. Number23 May 2015 #182

Daily life like a roof over our heads, food on the table, decent neighborhood, keeping the lights on TheKentuckian May 2015 #185

Just finding this now. An amazing articulation kjones Jul 2015 #190

Well I think people enjoy feeling superior to other people el_bryanto May 2015 #136

Straight white men will need to acknowledge their privledged status. nt ismnotwasm May 2015 #143

I want to start by saying I think social issues we want solved are VERY important too! cascadiance May 2015 #144

+ 1000 !!! orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #157

How about just embrace both? Marr May 2015 #148

BOOM. +1,000 LondonReign2 May 2015 #156

Who is saying the reverse? YoungDemCA May 2015 #160

Who PowerToThePeople May 2015 #162

Because centrists are similar to republicans on economic issues, and can't Zorra May 2015 #175

I for one do not think they can be disconnected from each other. jwirr May 2015 #149

can a minority have economic comfort and still experience social injustice? nt seabeyond May 2015 #151

They are not mutually exclusive AgingAmerican May 2015 #170

There is no divide, social and economic issues are a Siamese twin sharing a single heart. Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #163

Step 1. Ban the outrage trolls, Step 2. There is no step 2. Sen. Walter Sobchak May 2015 #164

Listen. n/t lovemydog May 2015 #166

We wouldn't be arguing about this dichotomy if it was Elizabeth Warren vs Hillary Clinton. lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #167

i disagree. warren is running on an even more narrow agenda. it will appeal to only the same seabeyond May 2015 #168

Hells no. Warren's history of GOP supports leaves her bettyellen May 2015 #174

Waiting for all the links to previous attacks on Warren for being Bonobo May 2015 #178

waiting for when she declared she was jumping in the primary. duh seabeyond May 2015 #179

If you read my user name this is how I feel RunInCircles May 2015 #180

Right wing economic policies must be purged from the Democratic party AgingAmerican May 2015 #186