General Discussion

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)

121. well said

Wed May 27, 2015, 02:17 PM

May 2015

but I think it IS a real division, and one that some people are vested in.

Clearly, if you are one of the favored groups, then this division - putting your issues ahead of all others, is the way things ought to be.

I don't really fault people on this - if you've got skin in the game, then you've got skin in the game.

In fact those who are not happy with the way things are, are probably a huge minority and we are gonna get rolled in this primary.

Ironically enough, the main reason we won last time was because of identity politics - our supposed champion was a black guy, and he turned out to be a Trojan Horse anyway. Perhaps Bernie wouldn't be a Trojan Horse, but I am not sanguine about his chances or about what that would do to the party if he was at the top of the ticket.

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What needs to happen to heal DU's unnecessary "social issues vs. economic issues" divide? [View all] Ken Burch May 2015 OP

If a few more of us developed the capacity to say "yes & yes", both/and, etc. 99th_Monkey May 2015 #1

I think they're absolutely intertwined TDale313 May 2015 #2

White people, often men, need to start listening harder Starry Messenger May 2015 #3

solutions that would help white people? Enrique May 2015 #4

Whatever it is that is favored over the reforms that would focus on non-whites, women, etc. Starry Messenger May 2015 #5

great idea. list some reforms specifically and how they will benefit all people, non white people, msongs May 2015 #6

Bringing back voting rights expansion would help immeasurably. Starry Messenger May 2015 #8

Appropriate more $'s for voting equipment in Urban area's One_Life_To_Give May 2015 #108

The 2013 repeal of Section 4 of the VRA made it much worse. Starry Messenger May 2015 #118

Thank you. nt. NCTraveler May 2015 #119

Well gosh. Starry Messenger May 2015 #9

thanks Enrique May 2015 #11

economic reforms, for instance, creating jobs through rebuilding infrastructure cali May 2015 #14

your opinion is not a wedge because of your gender hfojvt May 2015 #90

If you honestly feel insulted by that... YoungDemCA May 2015 #93

How did you get "shut up and sit down" out of "listen"? Starry Messenger May 2015 #105

it's an honest paraphrase hfojvt May 2015 #109

Presumably, in the future, you'll know what "being a liar" is Starry Messenger May 2015 #112

er, okay hfojvt May 2015 #114

I didn't think that's what the poster meant leftstreet May 2015 #142

Getting rid of free trade deals is a good start AgingAmerican May 2015 #47

they are concerned about being shot in the back by the police, not free trade. part of marketing. seabeyond May 2015 #53

Free trade deals AgingAmerican May 2015 #62

and STILL, the blacks are focused on cops shooting them in the back. not even a thought from you. seabeyond May 2015 #65

You keep going back to the symptoms AgingAmerican May 2015 #74

Black people, like other people, can focus on more than one thing at a time. Comrade Grumpy May 2015 #145

can we sit at the table too? seeing death is a HUGE issue. i am not the one making it an either, or. seabeyond May 2015 #147

No, I've tried and was sent to my room, Why because I don't support Hillary . n/t orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #176

Does that move the needle for LGBT people who can be fired in several states for being gay? Starry Messenger May 2015 #63

Wresting power back from the oligarchy helps everyone AgingAmerican May 2015 #110

"When we the people hold the power, civil rights can be properly addressed." Starry Messenger May 2015 #115

yes, blacks and other minorities did not benefit from the programs to help people get housing JI7 May 2015 #127

And the 2008 recession hit blacks and minorities the hardest. Starry Messenger May 2015 #132

+1000 !!!! orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #177

In other words BainsBane May 2015 #106

You can try to make it about me AgingAmerican May 2015 #111

The point isn't TPP BainsBane May 2015 #130

Education is the key AgingAmerican May 2015 #169

I wish I had said that, like that . It's true the misery is needless orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #159

+10000. This. YoungDemCA May 2015 #75

1. Stop pretending they are separate, zero sum topics. Bonobo May 2015 #7

Any economically populist platform that doesn't have feminism and civil rights as its focus YoungDemCA May 2015 #71

I think it's a completely manufactured division that simply doesn't reflect reality. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #10

Social justice doesn't cost the 0.01% much, economic justice does cost them Fumesucker May 2015 #13

Hammer, meet nail. LuvNewcastle May 2015 #17

You need to support that assertion. Recently the largest expansion of Social Security benefits Bluenorthwest May 2015 #18

It's easy to see that one party uses social issues to distract from economic ones Fumesucker May 2015 #20

Respond to what I posted, do not tell me to accept your crap unsupported and undiscussed. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #24

From where I sit you come across as rude priveleged and arrogant Fumesucker May 2015 #73

A personal attack, you still have not spoken about the facts I raised, now you are attacking me Bluenorthwest May 2015 #120

So what does it say about people who claim to care about economic issues that they don't even Bluenorthwest May 2015 #33

Wedge issues are for other people YoungDemCA May 2015 #92

What expansion was that? BuelahWitch May 2015 #139

I am unsure, but I think they could be talking about this. PowerToThePeople May 2015 #150

Thanks for the explanation BuelahWitch May 2015 #153

My rights aren't something you can barter away./NT DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #38

Then don't let the Republicans and the Democrats do that Fumesucker May 2015 #77

You are correct. And your question is good. "Why is it so difficult to accept that the Democrats GoneFishin May 2015 #68

Actually social justice costs them a whole lot AgingAmerican May 2015 #51

Oh for fuck's sake YoungDemCA May 2015 #89

unfortunately that is a false division hfojvt May 2015 #95

^^^^^^This is the correct answer.^^^^^^ woo me with science May 2015 #15

Great post, great answer Pooka Fey May 2015 #16

It comes from 'cross party politics' not Democratic Party politics. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #26

+1. n/t Jefferson23 May 2015 #28

Pushed by 'Third Way�' people AgingAmerican May 2015 #50

+1,000 LondonReign2 May 2015 #57

I agree, and I think we need to think about who this benefits. TBF May 2015 #60

well said hfojvt May 2015 #121

Yes. It's silly, transparent, completely unsupportable, and painfully embarrassing. Zorra May 2015 #126

actually there are more than a couple PowerToThePeople May 2015 #12

It would help if people didn't dismiss issues of racism and sexism gollygee May 2015 #19

The way they carry on is the antithesis of how Bernie carries himself, this is a fact. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #23

I don't see that. far from it. i see Bernie supporters stressing over and over again his excellent cali May 2015 #31

I said "not all Bernie Sanders supporters" gollygee May 2015 #35

Dismiss? Bullshit, what you are seeing is well deserved pushback at dismissing all other areas as TheKentuckian May 2015 #184

For years at DU, we've seen a group of people gollygee May 2015 #187

The OP's that use combative terminology, posted repeatedly by the same handful of straight, white Bluenorthwest May 2015 #21

Where did this divison even come from? romanic May 2015 #22

It is owned and operated by a handful of DU posters, all of whom bait minorities in various ways Bluenorthwest May 2015 #27

For me, personally, things like using the fucking Pope as a mouthpiece for economic causes is hugely PeaceNikki May 2015 #25

the hypocrisy burns. Hillary spends fifteen years in a close relationship cali May 2015 #34

Why do you keep making this into a discussion about Hillary? PeaceNikki May 2015 #36

Regarding the Pope, its a matter of tone, not substance. bklyncowgirl May 2015 #101

Thank you for your patronizing reply on how *I* could be more productive in the face of my rights PeaceNikki May 2015 #138

If a reasonably progressive person does not win the presidency we will all lose. bklyncowgirl May 2015 #171

I mean, I know I'm influential and shit, PeaceNikki May 2015 #172

I think if we kept in mind that the Democratic party is made up of all kinds of Democrats justiceischeap May 2015 #29

That's where I am. Starry Messenger May 2015 #30

I agree. This race is about SCOTUS more than anything else. PeaceNikki May 2015 #32

Yes, for me it is climate change. I think the next decade will be the nail in the coffin. raouldukelives May 2015 #40

They won't listen, they want their straight white male-dominated "economic populism" YoungDemCA May 2015 #81

The comfortably well off and relatively secure squealing like stuck pigs because there is finally TheKentuckian May 2015 #37

The comfortably well off and relatively secure? YoungDemCA May 2015 #79

Well yes, that does in a broad way describe the Third Wayers LondonReign2 May 2015 #154

Sounds like you like to throw out some lame, know nothing last refuge, got nothing bullshit. TheKentuckian May 2015 #183

is it 100% or GTFO? alc May 2015 #39

It's a divide on a message board, not one that seems to exist much on the ground. N/T Chathamization May 2015 #41

It isn't real, it's a disguise. The real issue is identity politics; Bernie is a white guy. lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #42

Oh, the poor white men. Lyric May 2015 #43

... DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #46

interesting. there is a lot of story in this song. tentacles hitting a lot of directions. nt seabeyond May 2015 #52

Exhibit #1 n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #102

you might want to start by looking at the replies, dismissing, insulting, ridiculing members that seabeyond May 2015 #44

Social issues ARE economic and vice versa. alarimer May 2015 #45

this is where you are wrong. many minorities have pointed out the flaw in this argument. seabeyond May 2015 #55

This one should cut every single du-er JustAnotherGen May 2015 #113

second. as a sander supporter i called the demographics. middle/upper middle, white, man, educated seabeyond May 2015 #48

and... this is only the beginning. there is so much more. OR. we can pretend i am the boogey man seabeyond May 2015 #49

Was that post in a GD thread? JustAnotherGen May 2015 #56

and he reiterated to me personally in replies, that it is a silly issue to discuss, one way or seabeyond May 2015 #58

Oooh boy JustAnotherGen May 2015 #72

The Republicans have effectively take control of local and state governments seabeyond May 2015 #78

This is why I think I'm going to run for Town Council JustAnotherGen May 2015 #85

i have another year. then i can jump in. the last four years, i have learned a lot. what we need. seabeyond May 2015 #87

Ahh - I've been pretty blunt IRL JustAnotherGen May 2015 #88

I cannot WAIT to knock on doors for you, sister! bettyellen May 2015 #173

I agree except the 'privileged college students' part AgingAmerican May 2015 #61

you did not fulling understand what i am saying. it is not ALL of the college students jumping on seabeyond May 2015 #64

My anxiety about focusing strictly on the collegiate bound JustAnotherGen May 2015 #84

so many issues. and yes, to all you say. seabeyond May 2015 #91

Agree totally AgingAmerican May 2015 #94

Who called you a name? NaturalHigh May 2015 #100

I think - nothing can or should be done about the divide(?) JustAnotherGen May 2015 #54

here is another angle. every time the posters tell us social is connected to economic, seabeyond May 2015 #59

Name one country with no economic justice AgingAmerican May 2015 #67

again, you did not discuss the concern of the oppressed minority in my post, only your concern of seabeyond May 2015 #70

There are no countries without economic justice AgingAmerican May 2015 #76

all about economic justice. i got that. i get that is the argument. i have listened to sander seabeyond May 2015 #80

"do not ask me for a link. it is right here." NaturalHigh May 2015 #86

It's all tied in together, you cannot separate them AgingAmerican May 2015 #96

i am not cutting off my nose to spite shit. fiscally? sanders is all about me, taking care of me. seabeyond May 2015 #98

Sanders is all about you? AgingAmerican May 2015 #103

look at his demographics and get back to me. seabeyond May 2015 #104

So lack of economic opportunity helps blacks/people of color? AgingAmerican May 2015 #107

No, but several countries have neared economic justice because they first had social justice KitSileya May 2015 #116

+1 YoungDemCA May 2015 #161

People need to stop being jerks Prism May 2015 #66

Well put. [n/t] Maedhros May 2015 #82

nice post n/t fishwax May 2015 #140

It's easy to focus on money when your basic civil and human rights aren't under constant threat YoungDemCA May 2015 #69

Who benefits by division? The 1%, of course. guillaumeb May 2015 #83

They are both necessary. kentuck May 2015 #97

will you acknowledge a minority can have economic comfort and still experience social injustice? nt seabeyond May 2015 #99

And could we acknowledge that we can have social justice and economic injustice? kentuck May 2015 #117

i have repeatedly stated and acknowledge we can have both. hence supporting sanders. the struggle is seabeyond May 2015 #122

I think that is only a temporary illusion... kentuck May 2015 #128

and again. of course we need both. hence supporting sanders WHILE asking to sit at table for social seabeyond May 2015 #152

You have as much right to sit at the table as anyone else. n/t. Ken Burch May 2015 #181

If Matthew Robinson, PhD is correct in defining social justice as... LanternWaste May 2015 #123

Good point. kentuck May 2015 #134

Tangentially, rather than closely connected. LanternWaste May 2015 #141

The notion that "social" and "economics" are NOT the same comes from capitalism. McCamy Taylor May 2015 #124

I think it would help if self-proclaimed leftists quit targeting ordinary Democrats BainsBane May 2015 #125

*mic drop* Starry Messenger May 2015 #129

As you can see BainsBane May 2015 #131

You should write that up and submit it somewhere. Starry Messenger May 2015 #133

It is beautiful. And I agree completely. freshwest Jun 2015 #188

I wish I could recommend your post. KMOD May 2015 #135

I feel like I need a cigarette now. sufrommich May 2015 #137

That is perfection ismnotwasm May 2015 #146

Oh hell yeah Bobbie Jo May 2015 #155

This is one of the best posts I've ever seen here YoungDemCA May 2015 #158

You all are very kind. nt BainsBane May 2015 #165

You are dangerous and I love you! Thanks again. n/t freshwest Jun 2015 #189

Good Lord. You are absolutely WASTED on this web site. Number23 May 2015 #182

Daily life like a roof over our heads, food on the table, decent neighborhood, keeping the lights on TheKentuckian May 2015 #185

Just finding this now. An amazing articulation kjones Jul 2015 #190

Well I think people enjoy feeling superior to other people el_bryanto May 2015 #136

Straight white men will need to acknowledge their privledged status. nt ismnotwasm May 2015 #143

I want to start by saying I think social issues we want solved are VERY important too! cascadiance May 2015 #144

+ 1000 !!! orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #157

How about just embrace both? Marr May 2015 #148

BOOM. +1,000 LondonReign2 May 2015 #156

Who is saying the reverse? YoungDemCA May 2015 #160

Who PowerToThePeople May 2015 #162

Because centrists are similar to republicans on economic issues, and can't Zorra May 2015 #175

I for one do not think they can be disconnected from each other. jwirr May 2015 #149

can a minority have economic comfort and still experience social injustice? nt seabeyond May 2015 #151

They are not mutually exclusive AgingAmerican May 2015 #170

There is no divide, social and economic issues are a Siamese twin sharing a single heart. Dont call me Shirley May 2015 #163

Step 1. Ban the outrage trolls, Step 2. There is no step 2. Sen. Walter Sobchak May 2015 #164

Listen. n/t lovemydog May 2015 #166

We wouldn't be arguing about this dichotomy if it was Elizabeth Warren vs Hillary Clinton. lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #167

i disagree. warren is running on an even more narrow agenda. it will appeal to only the same seabeyond May 2015 #168

Hells no. Warren's history of GOP supports leaves her bettyellen May 2015 #174

Waiting for all the links to previous attacks on Warren for being Bonobo May 2015 #178

waiting for when she declared she was jumping in the primary. duh seabeyond May 2015 #179

If you read my user name this is how I feel RunInCircles May 2015 #180

Right wing economic policies must be purged from the Democratic party AgingAmerican May 2015 #186