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stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

109. But one could envision that being fixable. We are stuck with a system that is not fixable

Fri May 29, 2015, 08:41 PM

May 2015

Last edited Fri May 29, 2015, 09:22 PM - Edit history (1)

Skinner and EarlG could very well tell mods to go get informed about diversity issues regarding LGBT, women, people of color, religion, etc., or be booted off the mod team. And mod decisions could be removed and if necessary reversed.

How are you supposed to tell seven random anonymous jurors that? And the jury's results are not addressable/reverse-able. I hope Skinner doesn't mind me saying I've seen responses from him to folks about jury decisions along the lines of "yeah, your hide wasn't really fair/right." or "that should have been hidden", but nothing can be done.

I absolutely stipulate to what you said regarding the problems with the old mod system, but Skinner as much as admitted in his mending fences and other posts that those were as much about things he should have done better as anything else.

The average juror seems woefully uninformed about diversity issues and what constitutes biased language and dog whistles, and it is impossible to ensure otherwise. That doesn't seem a good remedy for the issues with the mod system to me.

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I was a moderator on DU way back when. [View all] Avalux May 2015 OP

You take your chances Capt. Obvious May 2015 #1

Yeah, I see a LOT of the "The other person deserves it" bullshit. PeaceNikki May 2015 #2

amen! n/t chillfactor May 2015 #78

Thanks MannyGoldstein May 2015 #3

Yes they were. Avalux May 2015 #5

Do you think the no-personal-attacks policy helped? MannyGoldstein May 2015 #8

Well, we already have that. Avalux May 2015 #15

"No personal attacks" MannyGoldstein May 2015 #24

Some of us are so jaded nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #4

I don't serve on juries and I don't alert on anybody. m-lekktor May 2015 #9

speaking of the cave carolinayellowdog May 2015 #18

And likely here under another name nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #19

hmmm. mopinko May 2015 #127

I hear ya - you're probably better off with that approach. Avalux May 2015 #21

The site nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #40

Your assumption is that people are objective and reasonable. Renew Deal May 2015 #6

That would be idea wouldn't it? Avalux May 2015 #14

The only time I let things slide is trolls Prism May 2015 #7

Thanks for that, Avalux. The jury system is broken. Hekate May 2015 #10

Admin disagree Capt. Obvious May 2015 #11

I actually like the system... Avalux May 2015 #17

The first rule of jury duty is there are no rules. geek tragedy May 2015 #12

This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger May 2015 #13

Yes I read that. Avalux May 2015 #16

Skinner has also repeatedly written "You take your chances." Gormy Cuss May 2015 #20

I disagree. NaturalHigh May 2015 #22

Sorry, it didn't work that way. It wasn't perfect, Avalux May 2015 #23

Okay, I guess we just see it differently. NaturalHigh May 2015 #25

yes they were TransitJohn May 2015 #27

I can vouch for that dreamnightwind May 2015 #39

The issue wasn't who was moderating things Lithos May 2015 #44

Thanks for adding to this thread Lithos. Avalux May 2015 #57

Thanks! Lithos May 2015 #96

I do too. Avalux May 2015 #105

Fuck yeah it was! TransitJohn May 2015 #26

Was Stalin a moderator? Capt. Obvious May 2015 #29

No. TransitJohn May 2015 #31

Skinner needs to hire this guy to clean this place up. Elwood P Dowd May 2015 #28

A lot of good DUers have left or gone silent over crap like we have now Omaha Steve May 2015 #30

hear hear paulkienitz May 2015 #32

The mod system needed to have a few things fixed but they were fixable. The jury system isn't. stevenleser May 2015 #33

Heck ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #58

A cadre of mods getting direction from Skinner and EarlG have a much better chance of stevenleser May 2015 #107

I take my role as juror perhaps too seriously. arcane1 May 2015 #34

arcane1 was much more clear... SoapBox May 2015 #37

I'm sorry.... Avalux May 2015 #59

Serving on MIRT makes up for it somewhat arcane1 May 2015 #65

Well... SoapBox May 2015 #35

I would like to go bck to the admin days, I don't think skinner cares. I would volunteer to be one. Logical May 2015 #36

Possibly you don't understand that the Admins are 3 people who founded the site & own it. Hekate May 2015 #47

I see no problem at all with the contributors to the discussion handling the job. cherokeeprogressive May 2015 #38

I've noticed what you say regarding jury decisions. lpbk2713 May 2015 #41

I agree with your conclusion. Avalux May 2015 #60

I liked the old system and you guys did an excellent job 99.9% of the time. Cleita May 2015 #42

and don't forget, IRL jurors must deliberate before voting . Gormy Cuss May 2015 #56

I'm sure you're right about "on a whim" C Moon May 2015 #43

Yes, what we have here doesn't allow for discussion among jurors. Avalux May 2015 #62

I am convinced tha the practice of Jury nullificaton is alive and well at DU Agnosticsherbet May 2015 #45

I think that's how it should be. Avalux May 2015 #63

I served three terms... awoke_in_2003 May 2015 #46

I keep saying we should add moderators to review 3-4 and 4-3 Flying Squirrel May 2015 #48

Decisions on a whim? ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #49

That's really unfortunate. Avalux May 2015 #64

Agreed ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #87

I have a completely different perspective on the old mod system yardwork May 2015 #50

Thank you for your perspective. Avalux May 2015 #66

I liked the way the mods handled criticism of Jewish people. I think they understood the difference stevenleser May 2015 #112

Yeah some of us oldtimers remember the old moderation system and the inherent flaws in it. Rex May 2015 #85

But one could envision that being fixable. We are stuck with a system that is not fixable stevenleser May 2015 #109

I think it's just a function of cliquishness that's hard to root out of human nature Prism May 2015 #117

This always seems to come up when someone's ox is being gored. zeemike May 2015 #51

Democracy, in any context, only works if the people are involved and take their role seriously. Avalux May 2015 #67

Ot maybe what you are seeing is that the majority are not as concerned zeemike May 2015 #100

Right, who cares about posts that are biased or hateful. Why would progressives care about that? stevenleser May 2015 #114

We are all biased in one way or the other. zeemike May 2015 #120

The jury system sucks. But a question for you: Buzz Clik May 2015 #52

No I'm not the jackwagon who did that to you, lol. Avalux May 2015 #69

Excellent question! Buzz Clik May 2015 #72

Thanks for sharing. Avalux May 2015 #74

70s English punk? Works for me. Buzz Clik May 2015 #79

LGBTers got hosed hard in the old system Prism May 2015 #53

I remember, and I'm happy about the positive changes here for LGBTers. Avalux May 2015 #70

Agreed Prism May 2015 #88

See my #109 above. nt stevenleser May 2015 #113

"Let the post stay. The other person deserves it." - Actually I agree ... progree May 2015 #54

Except 1.) you have no idea if person A's post was alerted on and passed the hide vote or is still seaglass May 2015 #83

If A. clearly starts the nastiness and B. responds in kind, I WILL NOT vote to Hide B. progree May 2015 #84

I heard you the first time. You're not the only one who thinks that way I just don't believe that seaglass May 2015 #90

I don't consider fairness a "game". progree May 2015 #92

It has nothing to do with fairness. When you are judging post B you have no idea what is happening seaglass May 2015 #93

What is happening to Post A is a separate issue. That is one that, in my example, began the progree May 2015 #95

We disagree about what would lead to a more civil DU. n/t seaglass May 2015 #98

And we also disagree with what would lead to a more fair DU. n/t progree May 2015 #99

No, you haven't made a case for fairness so I haven't disagreed. n/t seaglass May 2015 #101

You haven't made any case for fairness at all. Whatever. n/t. progree May 2015 #102

It is up to DUers to create the community standards they want. Also, 1 post must be the first hidden uppityperson May 2015 #55

Great take on a flame war. Avalux May 2015 #71

Yes. Or they outright say they are doing it for reasons of treestar May 2015 #61

That wasn't right. Avalux May 2015 #73

Great post! And then there's always "Voting to leave, let MIRT take care of this..." Rhiannon12866 May 2015 #68

How is MIRT expected so see anything unless the post is hidden?! progree May 2015 #82

Having served several terms on MIRT, I find that very frustrating... Rhiannon12866 May 2015 #86

Yup. I wonder why the forum hosts aren't notified of these majority Leave It posts progree May 2015 #91

I do see your point, since it is tough to contact MIRT directly Rhiannon12866 May 2015 #94

Thanks much. That's good to know. nm progree May 2015 #97

There were just as many complaints about moderator decisions in DU2 Nye Bevan May 2015 #75

so true DonCoquixote May 2015 #76

Maybe we are just a grand experiment by the admins. Avalux May 2015 #80

I can sincerely think that DonCoquixote May 2015 #81

The discriminatory language and dog whistles that do not get hidden are the worst consequence of the stevenleser May 2015 #116

I was a mod way back when as well dlwickham May 2015 #77

That's may be part of it at least. Avalux May 2015 #104

then don't serve dlwickham May 2015 #119

Imagine a jury in a courtroom that has received minimal instructions... stevenleser May 2015 #118

I'm just curious Bobbie Jo May 2015 #89

Interesting. I think someone would need to monitor jury comments. Avalux May 2015 #103

I prefer the new system Starry Messenger May 2015 #106

If they went back to mods i would n8t become one. hrmjustin May 2015 #108

I'm fairly happy with the way things are. I visit other sites and it's either a free-for-all or.. BlueJazz May 2015 #110

Fellow old school mod. I so agree. kcr May 2015 #111

Another old-time mod agreeing--some jurors won't ever vote to hide Maeve May 2015 #128

The answer to you question is yes. Many of us do act like children. For many the internet liberal_at_heart May 2015 #115

I like the jury system. I think its much more fair. You get the board you want. nt Joe the Revelator May 2015 #121

I have never understood ... NanceGreggs May 2015 #122

+1 Hekate May 2015 #125

I would never consider Go Vols May 2015 #123

Hey...were you the one who locked my post in Jan 2005? nt Laura PourMeADrink May 2015 #124

This is DU...anything goes, people with fragile feelings aren't really progressive. ileus May 2015 #126

The thing is different people take this forum with different degrees of seriousness. totodeinhere May 2015 #129

Trolls can and have been jurors. I don't think they were mods very often Number23 May 2015 #130