Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

DFW

(60,462 posts)
26. It isn't a crime to take your own money out of the bank
Sat May 30, 2015, 11:46 AM
May 2015

There's just a reporting requirement, that's all.

It's the case in most countries now, although some over-eager agencies use it as an excuse to terrorize their population, and steal what they can.*

In the USA, it must be reported, but even on customs forms when you enter the country, explaining that you have to report if you are bringing in $10,000 or more in cash or negotiables, it specifically states that ANY amount is legal, it just needs to be reported.

One time, an auction firm back home in Dallas freaked out when they held a rare coin auction in California. Some Russian guy bought some high priced rarities for $300,000 and opened up a briefcase full of cash with which to pay for them. He showed them the customs form stating clearly that he had declared the cash when he entered the country. The auction firm accepted the cash and made a photocopy of the customs declaration. When they brought the cash to their bank in Dallas, the bank freaked out, too, but accepted the customs declaration, and filled out the paperwork. When the yearly audit came, the IRS examined the documents, said everybody had done what the law required, and declared they were happy with the compliance.

That said, I agree in principle that if it's your money, you came by it legally, and have no intention of avoiding any kind of law when you do whatever it is you planned to do with it, you should be allowed to do so without the KGB looking over your shoulder all the time. In my experience in the States, however, in recent years, there are very few transactions that would warrant amounts of cash over $10,000. Everyone seems to have a credit card or at least a checking account. Sure, if someone wants to show off at a fancy wedding or restaurant there might be occasion to need over $10,000, but that's more the exception than the rule.

*The one case that brought this to mind was when an acquaintance of mine was raided and dumped in jail for three weeks (no charges, they can do that with no reason in Belgium). He was detained on suspicion of "money laundering." He owns a precious metals business, which means he works with large sums of money on razor thin margins and works with banks who sometimes refuse to even wait 24 hours for a wire to clear. They need cash by the close of the business day- So, his business had withdrawn 900 million euros over the course of a couple of years--from the Central Bank of Belgium!! Hardly the Belgian institution most likely to be looking to launder money. After three weeks in a jail cell, held on no charges at all, he came before an appeals judge. The authorities started yelling about 900 million euros. The guy addressed the judge, asking if there was any logic at all to obtaining money from the country's central bank in order to somehow make it black, with the intention of subsequently laundering it white again. The judge agreed that the scenario was ludicrous. The cops started whining about "900 million euros!!" and the judge reminded them that the money's origin had been explained and backed up by government documents. Since they couldn't provide any argument why the guy needed further incarceration, the judge ordered him set free immediately, wondering why he had been locked up in the first place. After all, he was a white guy in Brussels, not a black guy in Georgia.

This is happening all over France and Belgium these days, by the way. When merchandise is seized, somehow there is always less of it when it is returned after the (almost inevitable) finding that the victim had not done anything wrong. Sometimes, they really get creative. They once seized about $10 million of top grade diamonds from a Jewish diamond dealer Antwerp, kept them for two or three years, "found" that the guy was innocent, and returned his diamonds. Only-- they had somehow magically been transformed from gem quality diamonds to industrial quality diamonds (worth less than 10% of the original value) while in police custody. The leader of the Socialists in the Belgian Senate, an acquaintance of mine, told me the government knew about it, but couldn't do anything about it. She didn't elaborate, but I got the feeling she thought it wasn't healthy to delve into such cases too deeply.

You think WE have it bad? There's a lot more (or less, depending on how you look at it) to that country than chocolate, waffles and the canals of Brugge.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Currency Transaction Reports have been around a lot longer than Laura PourMeADrink May 2015 #1
And $10,000 was a lot more back then. MH1 May 2015 #17
That is true! DawgHouse May 2015 #61
One less thing to be annoyingly tested on every year. arcane1 May 2015 #51
Ah, so you are pro-money laundering. And this has been true for longer than the Patriot Act. KittyWampus May 2015 #2
Pro money laundering Jesus Malverde May 2015 #21
Are you really a defense attorney? Thinkingabout May 2015 #3
Read the USA Patriot Act, just for fun. DefenseLawyer May 2015 #12
How about reading when bt he Patriot was passed. The rule of reporting transactions over Thinkingabout May 2015 #33
So I recently redid my kitchen yeoman6987 May 2015 #56
You don't have to report it, the banking industry does it for you. Thinkingabout May 2015 #58
Thank you. yeoman6987 May 2015 #62
Only applies to cash not checks MichMan May 2015 #67
This message was self-deleted by its author tammywammy May 2015 #71
Yet another legacy of the "War on Drugs" CanonRay May 2015 #4
Yes, but maybe you think its a good thing when Historic NY May 2015 #9
All we have to do is end the disastrous and phony Drug War and we will get back our rights that sabrina 1 May 2015 #31
Supply and demand, cut off the demand and the supply withers. Historic NY May 2015 #32
A guy I know owned a nightclub in Miami in the late 70d, early 80s. AngryAmish May 2015 #36
+++ I agree nt newfie11 May 2015 #5
It wasn't the Patriot Act that mandated reporting large cash withdrawals. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2015 #6
Speaking of tax evasion.. IphengeniaBlumgarten May 2015 #15
It wasn't a gift jberryhill May 2015 #27
They also have to report putting more than 10K into a bank treestar May 2015 #7
10K in 1970 is the equivalent of about 60K now Gormy Cuss May 2015 #16
It isn't. It is a crime to use your money for criminal acts. on point May 2015 #8
No, "structuring" is a crime that doesn't in any way require that money is used for a "criminal act" DefenseLawyer May 2015 #40
When queried as to what you did with the money, tell them. End of story if legit on point May 2015 #42
Not necessarily strategery blunder May 2015 #45
not structuring MichMan May 2015 #50
You would be wrong. NutmegYankee May 2015 #52
It shouldn't be considered structuring, because the intent is not to evade reporting. strategery blunder May 2015 #55
I don't want the government snooping around my bank records... DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #10
Just a couple is enough MichMan May 2015 #13
I once need $400.00 cash on a weekend and the grocery store was closer to the ATM DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #14
Card got shut off? n/t Wilms May 2015 #28
Precisely. I had to call the Fraud Department to get the freeze removed. DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #29
All I had to do was try to pay for dinner while out of town. Wilms May 2015 #30
your bank got suspicious and shut off the card? Liberal_in_LA May 2015 #57
Most stores offer cash back, but up to $50.. SoCalDem May 2015 #66
People are funny sometimes MichMan May 2015 #11
Why should a report be files that I am depositing or taking out my money??? I would be pissed if Pisces May 2015 #19
Been the law for decades MichMan May 2015 #22
Money laundering, it is a crime. Thinkingabout May 2015 #59
If I sell some jewelry and furniture in my house and go deposit 11k in my account. I don't think I Pisces May 2015 #60
Meh. peecoolyour May 2015 #18
This is why there isn't as much outcry. I'll bet it would be just as easy to track anomalies within Pisces May 2015 #20
If you were at a bank and a man was depositing his $1,000.00 pay check every week DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #24
Your hypothetical isn't suspicious because it's a check. Jim Lane May 2015 #37
I always wondered how folks launder their money... DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #38
And where is the law that says it is a crime to take your money out of the bank? Citation please. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #23
Denny got hoisted by his own petard! yortsed snacilbuper May 2015 #25
It isn't a crime to take your own money out of the bank DFW May 2015 #26
Back in the '80s I worked for a small non-profit. Igel May 2015 #34
And a good accountant nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #35
Our credit union questioned our deposits EVERY TIME Holly_Hobby May 2015 #39
I don't understand this knee-jerk response of "Government is evil!" randome May 2015 #41
It isn't, and the Patriot Act has nothing to do with it frazzled May 2015 #43
Oh, how dis howwid and twadjick tale bwakes my widdle heart! struggle4progress May 2015 #44
Hey! Pederasts have rights, too! randome May 2015 #46
Agreed. NaturalHigh May 2015 #47
To a statistical slant on this; the Russian mob is nearly a $1 TRILLION empire, with about $200 Exilednight May 2015 #48
I agree completely. nt hifiguy May 2015 #49
I can only wish I had this problem, but alas, 'twas not to be. libdem4life May 2015 #53
It shouldn't be a crime to transport your own money in a wad of cash, either Warpy May 2015 #54
I didn't realize that you had to report withdrawals at all. DawgHouse May 2015 #63
I don't know that "you" do, but the bank does (nt) Recursion May 2015 #69
Ah, yes. They have their own reporting regulations. DawgHouse May 2015 #70
I agree.nt m-lekktor May 2015 #64
If you do not put it in the bank no one's the wiser SoCalDem May 2015 #65
And it's still not a crime, is it? (nt) Recursion May 2015 #68
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Dennis Hastert aside, it ...»Reply #26