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the peoples summit

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306. Um...that's not what many vegetarians eat...

Reply to GoCubsGo (Reply #14)

Sat May 12, 2012, 11:54 AM

May 2012

But judging from your name, you are stuck on...genius...

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Dieting results in long term changes to hormones and muscle fibers. [View all] eridani May 2012 OP

Breaking news: maintaining a healthy weight is not easy Taitertots May 2012 #1

"Self control" being defined as eridani May 2012 #6

Self control being defined as eating the right foods in the right quantities Taitertots May 2012 #15

"Right" being defined as whatever it takes, no matter how crappy you feel eridani May 2012 #19

No one said it would be easy. If they won't accept a little discomfort... Taitertots May 2012 #31

Gay people could become straight is they were willing to accept discomfort also eridani May 2012 #72

Gay people could pretend to be straight and have major emotional suffering Taitertots May 2012 #79

No healthier than heterosexuality--depends on the individual in either case eridani May 2012 #101

LOL, you are not what I call an understanding person. But I bet you know that! Logical May 2012 #243

What I understand is that insecure people who need validation eridani May 2012 #278

No they could not. Equating the two is stupid Codeine May 2012 #84

It is certainly possible for gay people to live as straight eridani May 2012 #100

They can masquerade as straight, Codeine May 2012 #112

For 5% of the population. eridani May 2012 #113

Then I guess weight loss is simply impossible. nt Codeine May 2012 #115

No. Merely statistically improbable, at least when talking about significant poundage. eridani May 2012 #121

Conflating being fat with being gay? Nye Bevan May 2012 #125

Not if you are being rational about the subject. eridani May 2012 #147

Interesting. laundry_queen May 2012 #151

Just to confirm, mythology May 2012 #204

The analogy is 100% accurate in describing the way society treats both eridani May 2012 #220

Ah so you do think it's genetics 4th law of robotics May 2012 #225

Genetics and other factors that we can't do jackshit about except politically eridani May 2012 #232

Ah so the Japanese and Europeans must be a different species from us 4th law of robotics May 2012 #245

Bullshit. Obesity is increasing all over the world eridani May 2012 #263

Interesting, you point out how the Japanese and Europeans 4th law of robotics May 2012 #265

You can't change genetics, and you can't change environmental factors either as an individual eridani May 2012 #271

This is an incorrect statement: noamnety May 2012 #291

The same exercise and diet program leads to widely disparate results for different people eridani May 2012 #292

Nobody said you should be concerned about your riding results. noamnety May 2012 #293

And intervals can be extremely dangerous for people over 65 eridani May 2012 #294

Why? Drahthaardogs May 2012 #284

But, healthy doesn't *need* to mean discomfort. Really! Habibi May 2012 #36

Great advice. nobodyspecial May 2012 #41

This is why Weight Watchers is so successful. YellowRubberDuckie May 2012 #45

Weight Watchers has no documented long term success whatsoever. eridani May 2012 #68

That is not true. YellowRubberDuckie May 2012 #76

They neither track nor publish their long term results eridani May 2012 #102

I'm convinced Weight Watchers makes people fat spinbaby May 2012 #77

Personally, I think WW is a bit cookie-cutter. Habibi May 2012 #82

Before the bypas nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #91

Thank you spinbaby May 2012 #122

Healthy eating does not imply weight loss. eridani May 2012 #66

Well said! JNelson6563 May 2012 #78

I appreciate the supportive tone BUT hairy krishna May 2012 #295

As far as weight loss goes, I think calories are "equal." Habibi May 2012 #296

NO. They are NOT equal. the peoples summit May 2012 #307

I did understand you. Habibi May 2012 #308

It DOES matter because the food functions differently. banana convention. May 2012 #309

Give it up. Habibi May 2012 #312

I think it really depends on how YOU DO IT nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #64

For plenty of people "listening to your body" leaves you fat eridani May 2012 #70

But for plenty of people it doesn't nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #90

Actually, they don't need to feel hungry. Habibi May 2012 #33

The article in the OP would suggest otherwise Taitertots May 2012 #34

You need to read more closely nobodyspecial May 2012 #37

Yes, yes, yes! Habibi May 2012 #51

You are correct regarding the content of the article Taitertots May 2012 #80

Sorry, what? I missed that in the article.Who wouldn't feel hungry on a 500-calorie-per-day diet? Habibi May 2012 #38

They did this restrictive diet for two months nobodyspecial May 2012 #43

Right. Craziness. Nobody can feel good on a 500-cal-a-day diet. It's wrong and stupid and harmful. Habibi May 2012 #50

Your name is making me hungry! dixiegrrrrl May 2012 #42

And that's why I don't believe in diets. Habibi May 2012 #29

Reasonable portion sizes should leave you feeling content and not gaining weight 4th law of robotics May 2012 #167

Or not eridani May 2012 #181

So far you have argued that what you eat doesn't matter 4th law of robotics May 2012 #187

What doesn't matter is the weight loss results from eating less and exercising more eridani May 2012 #198

Let's take an extreme example 4th law of robotics May 2012 #215

Given the reality that human metabolic controls prefer fat to lean body weight-- eridani May 2012 #221

That is utterly false 4th law of robotics May 2012 #224

I got if from the course I taught in metabolic biochemistry eridani May 2012 #227

Post removed Post removed May 2012 #247

Energy input required for burning protein is lower that required for burning fat eridani May 2012 #274

This! Vehl May 2012 #18

That's very true eridani May 2012 #20

well Vehl May 2012 #28

The irony of your name cracks me up... trumad May 2012 #208

I've heard about this effect before. CaliforniaPeggy May 2012 #2

300 lb people who lose 50 lbs are still fat eridani May 2012 #5

"300 lb people who lose 50 lbs are still fat" Habibi May 2012 #12

Keeping on with what you are doing does not necessarily result in further weight loss eridani May 2012 #16

I understand. But rapid weight loss from a crash diet and Habibi May 2012 #40

Word that AnnieBW May 2012 #65

Losing 40 pounds is an exceptional accomplishment mythology May 2012 #205

That is just rude. YellowRubberDuckie May 2012 #46

I'm around me, and connected to the real world that fat people live in eridani May 2012 #153

Yeah. I know, I'm in that bracket. YellowRubberDuckie May 2012 #171

Since when does reporting how the rest of the world reacts to a 50 lb weight loss-- eridani May 2012 #177

You are doing it exactly right, Peggy! Habibi May 2012 #7

Portion control worked for me and I've kept the weight off for years. alfredo May 2012 #25

Good grief, what a load of bollocks this study is. Habibi May 2012 #3

People go for extreme diets when moderation doesn't work eridani May 2012 #4

It might be predictable, Habibi May 2012 #8

Because weight loss eventually flatlines eridani May 2012 #10

Possibly. But people can shake things up when they flatline, too. Habibi May 2012 #13

Or not. eridani May 2012 #17

Or, just continue to make excuses nobodyspecial May 2012 #39

But if the physical activity you enjoy and have time for does not result in significant weight loss- eridani May 2012 #67

I'm not talking about burning another 500 calories on the elliptical. Habibi May 2012 #44

I agree. Upping the activity level isn't normally doable or even helpful. noamnety May 2012 #133

What you are suggesting (though you probably don't mean to) eridani May 2012 #144

No, I'm not really suggesting that. noamnety May 2012 #155

What you are talking about is a mindfulness about training that many aren't motivated to share. eridani May 2012 #197

I don't do any athletic competitions. noamnety May 2012 #199

I just watched a not overweight friend have a stroke eridani May 2012 #201

Plantar fasciitis is related to being overweight, among other things. noamnety May 2012 #211

Since I fixed it without losing a single pound, the correlation is meaningless in the real world eridani May 2012 #222

It's possible the mayo clinic is wrong. noamnety May 2012 #241

Not wrong, just misguided eridani May 2012 #257

Losing weight Dorian Gray May 2012 #238

Not defeated--I have just made a choice to have a life eridani May 2012 #256

How you live is your choice Dorian Gray May 2012 #281

Don't confuse "judgement" with public abuse. eridani May 2012 #285

That means it's time to up the exercise Codeine May 2012 #87

Unless you decide that you would prefer to have a life eridani May 2012 #103

Exercise should be part of everybody's life. Codeine May 2012 #116

Yes, it should. But is is absolutely nutz to assume that it will lead to significant weight loss eridani May 2012 #118

Oh stuff that. Codeine May 2012 #120

You can make changes to your habits, but that may or may not result in significant weight loss eridani May 2012 #123

That doesn't make it right! YellowRubberDuckie May 2012 #47

Yup. That is an insanely small caloric number... truebrit71 May 2012 #168

That is why my motto is: It's not how much you eat; it is what you eat. JDPriestly May 2012 #9

When I tried out being a vegetarian, I discovered the discomfort eridani May 2012 #11

Yep. GoCubsGo May 2012 #14

I Dunno Vehl May 2012 #22

I found studying the diets of Asia and the Mideast taught me how to spice vegetables. alfredo May 2012 #27

:) Vehl May 2012 #30

I wasn't making any points about vegetarian diets. GoCubsGo May 2012 #53

ah, I misunderstood. Vehl May 2012 #59

Naw. GoCubsGo May 2012 #63

It's the same here obamanut2012 May 2012 #61

That is NOT a healthy vegetarian diet nobodyspecial May 2012 #26

Yes, I know. GoCubsGo May 2012 #52

What in the world do you think vegetarians eat? obamanut2012 May 2012 #60

Sigh. GoCubsGo May 2012 #62

Good thing there is an abundance of fat and protein in vegetarian food. Codeine May 2012 #85

Um...that's not what many vegetarians eat... the peoples summit May 2012 #306

That's because you need some protein and fat with every meal to feel full nobodyspecial May 2012 #23

+1 Vehl May 2012 #32

Thank you. nobodyspecial May 2012 #35

While I hate Chick Fil A... YellowRubberDuckie May 2012 #48

It's WHAT you eat. ananda May 2012 #21

Wrong nobodyspecial May 2012 #24

Yes. Although I'd argue with your numbers. Habibi May 2012 #56

So would I nobodyspecial May 2012 #57

I think it really depends on your current weight, your goal weight, Habibi May 2012 #75

Except that if you try to adjust caloric intake and energy output by force of will-- eridani May 2012 #69

Yup that's why people starve to death or real nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #93

I no longer agree with simple calories in/calories out. noamnety May 2012 #96

Great post! Habibi May 2012 #99

Can you share with us some of that reading material? truebrit71 May 2012 #170

No problem. noamnety May 2012 #172

Awesome thanks! from your earlier post I thought one of them was the 4-hour body.. truebrit71 May 2012 #212

In addition to what noamety has suggested, you might find "Fuck Calories" Habibi May 2012 #180

Thanks! I just downloaded it. noamnety May 2012 #218

It is both. YellowRubberDuckie May 2012 #49

Thank you! GoCubsGo May 2012 #54

Pot smoking & masturbating frequently to porn are two of the best things men can do for their health Warren DeMontague May 2012 #55

It's possible to avoid this effect varelse May 2012 #58

I had a friend who did that, but then sustained a serious knee injury eridani May 2012 #71

Have Her Join A Gym That Has A Pool HangOnKids May 2012 #73

She's on SSDI and can't afford dues eridani May 2012 #74

And there are still ways to exercise nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #94

You are talking to someone who has biked all over Europe a few times eridani May 2012 #104

Here s a medical fact nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #124

I'm realistic, and I represent 95% of fat people eridani May 2012 #141

More than 5% of people lose and maintain nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #145

If you cheat and have 86% of your subjects be male, of course you will get better results eridani May 2012 #148

As predicted nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #149

You failed to discuss my analysis of the actual results. eridani May 2012 #152

First of all. laundry_queen May 2012 #154

Hi, my name is 'Edweird' and I have dieted strictly out of vanity. Edweird May 2012 #206

My local YWCA has a low-income program Lydia Leftcoast May 2012 #182

Good idea n/t eridani May 2012 #228

Exercise can be adapted to a person's ability varelse May 2012 #81

That is truly inspiring! Habibi May 2012 #83

Spark People - it is free and has a food and fitness journal built in varelse May 2012 #131

Very good. Habibi May 2012 #136

I had not heard of myfitnesspal varelse May 2012 #159

I agree with them. Habibi May 2012 #161

Spark people Dorian Gray May 2012 #239

There are only 99 other people like her who did the same thing and didn't lose much weight eridani May 2012 #105

There are over 2 million users on the site I am using varelse May 2012 #130

And there are no statistics or any kind of scientific tracking, right? n/t eridani May 2012 #142

No, just a huge social network varelse May 2012 #158

Which has nothing to do with proving or disproving the statement that eridani May 2012 #178

To me, what is important is *why* weight loss is not maintained varelse May 2012 #210

That's good advice. noamnety May 2012 #216

Yes, the feedback loop is what makes this technique so valuable varelse May 2012 #244

That's just nonsense. I'm far too busy to bother with food journals, and also eridani May 2012 #223

Actually, food journaling doesn't have to take much time varelse May 2012 #249

That's true about it not taking much time. noamnety May 2012 #250

Only if you make weight loss the most important thing in your life eridani May 2012 #258

It isn't the most important thing in my life varelse May 2012 #297

Correction. For SOME people "it doesn't have to be in order to be achievable" eridani May 2012 #298

I don't think that the woman who started at 460 pounds varelse May 2012 #299

These people are part of a very, very small minority eridani May 2012 #300

Rich people gain wealth by accumulating it at the expense of others varelse May 2012 #301

And there is a difference between maintaining health and losing weight eridani May 2012 #302

if weight loss is not important to a person varelse May 2012 #303

And if you hadn't lost the weight, you could have become healthier anyway eridani May 2012 #304

That's not true. Feron May 2012 #305

An obese person who exercises more and eats a healthier diet will also reap a lot of health benefits eridani May 2012 #310

Those were starvation diets. They were doomed to failure. Codeine May 2012 #86

I've lost 21 pounds in 6 weeks. GaYellowDawg May 2012 #88

Good for you! And best of luck on your journey! Habibi May 2012 #89

Thanks, and I completely agree with you GaYellowDawg May 2012 #95

Good job ... but one more comment on salad dressing: Arugula Latte May 2012 #92

I'll throw in a couple more suggestions noamnety May 2012 #97

+1 I switched from Ranch dressing to the make your own variety a few years ago SlimJimmy May 2012 #98

I've been making my own salad dressing for 25 years eridani May 2012 #107

Definitely. Arugula Latte May 2012 #135

Well bully for you. Very few fat women start out with a habit of eating 4000 calories a day eridani May 2012 #106

My fiance has recently lost weight and it has meant enormous changes Codeine May 2012 #114

I have been dieting my whole life. RebelOne May 2012 #132

No salad dressing? Not even non fat vinaigrette? tawadi May 2012 #251

This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat May 2012 #108

The study is based on a 500 calorie/day diet? Cali_Democrat May 2012 #109

That's what obese people generally do when "sensible" measures eridani May 2012 #110

I think everyone's body is different Cali_Democrat May 2012 #128

And yet people will use this info to convince themselves Codeine May 2012 #117

The info isn't necessary to convince me of that. Reality is sufficient all by itself. eridani May 2012 #119

Good point. Habibi May 2012 #162

The thing about these long threads is that if they go on long enough-- eridani May 2012 #190

OK--Mitt Rmoney sock puppets should 'fess up right now. eridani May 2012 #111

People have shared ideas, tips, experiences and advice nobodyspecial May 2012 #127

I didn't take it that way. noamnety May 2012 #134

I understand what you are saying and know the frustration nobodyspecial May 2012 #137

Pointing out success that occurs only for a small percentage of people-- eridani May 2012 #143

please post this information every time there is a "weight loss thread" Scout May 2012 #163

Modest weight loss leaves fat people with exactly the same levels of public abuse as before. eridani May 2012 #139

Wrong, there is a direct correlation nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #146

Yes, as a matter of fact, all of those SNAPSHOT studies ARE wrong eridani May 2012 #150

You know what nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #164

You can address arguments, or you can appeal to authority eridani May 2012 #173

Social science is not well, science nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #179

I'm well aware of real science, given that I have a doctorate in biochemistry eridani May 2012 #191

You are absolutely right zappaman May 2012 #169

I guess that explains all those skinny athletic kids with type II diabetes 4th law of robotics May 2012 #188

You have everything exactly assbackwards eridani May 2012 #189

You seem to have access to data that is entirely contradictory 4th law of robotics May 2012 #213

There has been no increase in the number of people genetically predisposed toward diabetes eridani May 2012 #226

"You are born diabetic, period." 4th law of robotics May 2012 #248

False? So you read the articles at the links I provided? eridani May 2012 #259

Your first link was broken 4th law of robotics May 2012 #267

Type II diabetes is not "divorced from" obesity. The same genes cause both diabetes and obesity eridani May 2012 #276

The "gene" that causes type 2 diabetes? 4th law of robotics May 2012 #280

Ok, genes eridani May 2012 #283

30% of weight loss nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #138

Portion sizes are too large in the USA. Nye Bevan May 2012 #126

And that is a given nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #129

While biking in Europe, it was flat out impossible for us to finish meals eridani May 2012 #140

Couple of things LASlibinSC May 2012 #160

Yup, I wish this was an OP quite frankly nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #165

I agree--stress is a major stimulus for extra insulin production eridani May 2012 #174

A great example about why focusing on weight loss instead of health is a bad idea eridani May 2012 #234

I feel so bad for people with eating disorders. sofa king May 2012 #156

All dysfunctional behaviors are NOT addictions eridani May 2012 #175

Withdrawal symptoms from sugar addiction include: noamnety May 2012 #183

"Sugar" is not a synonym for "food" eridani May 2012 #192

It's not a synonym for food, no. noamnety May 2012 #200

So the solution to "addiction" is fat and protein? eridani May 2012 #229

I'm not entirely sure noamnety May 2012 #242

Yes, but they are similar, are they not? sofa king May 2012 #184

Compulsion and addiction are two very different things eridani May 2012 #195

"Inability to discontinue harmful behavior despite negative consequences." sofa king May 2012 #203

No. The reasons for the inability are completely different eridani May 2012 #219

So the description is the same, but "inability" is defined differently? sofa king May 2012 #240

So it doesn't matter to you whether cold symptoms are caused by viruses or bacteria? eridani May 2012 #260

Someone comes in dying of cold symptoms; what do you do? sofa king May 2012 #264

"Overeating" is diagnosed very differently from alcoholism eridani May 2012 #270

When you learn to not overeat you DO have a greater appetite CBGLuthier May 2012 #157

Yep, crash diets aren't the way to go 4th law of robotics May 2012 #166

It is nothing of the sort eridani May 2012 #176

Science tends to disagree with you on that 4th law of robotics May 2012 #186

That is absolute crap, period. But if human bodies were bomb calorimeters, you'd be right. eridani May 2012 #193

You're right, people are amazing machines, capable of greater than 100% efficiency 4th law of robotics May 2012 #214

The human body is constrained by physics. This does not mean that physics explains eridani May 2012 #230

Funny, you say what we eat is irrelevent 4th law of robotics May 2012 #246

Correct, people can't simply eat less and lose weight eridani May 2012 #261

I take it back, this isn't funny anymore 4th law of robotics May 2012 #266

Wrong. Reducing calorie intake and increasing activity shifts metabolic equilibrium-- eridani May 2012 #273

In other news, Food Is Fuel. flvegan May 2012 #185

I agree. Eating charcoal briquettes or drinking gasoline is a very bad idea n/t eridani May 2012 #194

Be that as it may, I love dieting. truthisfreedom May 2012 #196

Funny, but that's what a lot of anorexic women say a few years before they die n/t eridani May 2012 #202

Anorexics being people who take dieting to an extreme 4th law of robotics May 2012 #268

Losing 20 lbs does not make fat people thin eridani May 2012 #272

That last part is why people are arguing with you. noamnety May 2012 #275

When did I ever say "don't bother changing your diet'? eridani May 2012 #277

I thought the "don't bother" was implied noamnety May 2012 #279

From a psychologist I talked to who had treated many for eating disorders eridani May 2012 #282

Actually, it does. Prometheus Bound May 2012 #311

Do the math: 250lbs - 20 lbs is not "normal" eridani May 2012 #313

Intense physical exertion is the key not starvation. Working out also changes muscles and hormones Edweird May 2012 #207

Agree... trumad May 2012 #209

And if you don't have time to to enough of it to lose signifcant amounts of weight? eridani May 2012 #231

You have time. A high intensity workout does not take long. Edweird May 2012 #236

And it's an extremely bad idea for anyone over 65 eridani May 2012 #237

Then you might as well 'live it up' and just not worry about weight loss and just enjoy the ride... Edweird May 2012 #252

Indeed eridani May 2012 #262

Just thought I'd mention this other part of the puzzle. laundry_queen May 2012 #217

The thing about all these environmental factors is that we can't do anything about them-- eridani May 2012 #233

Maybe someone could start a thread where posters could be irrational about muscle tissue eridani May 2012 #235

Is there any popcorn left? SmileyRose May 2012 #253

I ate it all, sorry. Habibi May 2012 #254

Don't put butter on it. Arugula Latte May 2012 #255

They never talk about auto-immune disease--Hashimoto's thyroiditis, Manifestor_of_Light May 2012 #269

Why are you arguing with everyone on this thread? October May 2012 #286

For the same reason I argue with people who think gay people should stay in the closet eridani May 2012 #287

I'd suggest you start a thread about free will. randome May 2012 #288

Anyone can make the choice to declare permanent war on themselves eridani May 2012 #290

You do know that their is a group on DU for weight loss support, right? eridani May 2012 #289