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MFrohike

(1,980 posts)

346. That doesn't make pessimism elitist

Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:58 PM

Jun 2015

It does make the speaker at least sound elitist. That being said, there's a difference between being elitist and being correct about something that is confused in the popular mind. I don't think this is one of those cases, but it does happen.

I wouldn't dismiss Mencken out of hand. Racist and believing in elite rule describes most Americans throughout history. We see plenty of unconscious, and sometimes conscious racism, in everyday life. Given that slavery and its continuing infection are the history of the country, it's not something we're likely to escape soon. As for elite rule, I see plenty of posts on DU everyday attesting to that preference. Everytime I see someone essentially say it's a matter of just electing the right people, I have to shake my head. The right people have never done anything without public pressure.*

*I've read enough of your posts to realize that you know this quite well. Please don't take it as lecturing. Think of it as stating the obvious.

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frankly, what I think we're doing here, is documenting the last gasps of democracy. Updated [View all] cali Jun 2015 OP

Sadly I agree. MuseRider Jun 2015 #1

Agree. octoberlib Jun 2015 #2

I wish I didn't agree olddots Jun 2015 #3

+1 daleanime Jun 2015 #83

Doen't the surge of Benie Sanders provide some hope for the future? olegramps Jun 2015 #315

Agree Katashi_itto Jun 2015 #4

Diebold for the win. Jesus Malverde Jun 2015 #5

Yep--nothing like a good "don't blame me, I can't do anything about it" excuse brooklynite Jun 2015 #33

... 2banon Jun 2015 #47

of course you don't. you think the elites are just dandy. you don't cali Jun 2015 #53

I said nothing about the issues....I disputed the "last gasps of Democracy" brooklynite Jun 2015 #131

Well said Omnith Jun 2015 #231

Dude where you been...nt Jesus Malverde Jun 2015 #56

He thinks he's being helpful ~ TBF Jun 2015 #121

No one actually IN the elite would be posting here Divernan Jun 2015 #144

Interesting analogy - TBF Jun 2015 #151

Wonderful analogy! RufusTFirefly Jun 2015 #164

To partially quote Matt Taibbi hifiguy Jun 2015 #176

Great imagery. nt valerief Jun 2015 #326

1%ers are the remora, 0.1%ers are the sharks. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #193

John D. MacDonald had a great description of the remora in one of his books. malthaussen Jun 2015 #318

...! Good Analogy....will add KoKo Jun 2015 #353

At a salon. Whatever the fuck that is. nt Guy Whitey Corngood Jun 2015 #246

not just diebold questionseverything Jun 2015 #67

It's crazy that anyone believes a corporate made computerized vote counting machine is honest. C Moon Jun 2015 #269

Frank Zappa explained it well hifiguy Jun 2015 #6

So Spot On. 2banon Jun 2015 #55

+1 Enthusiast Jun 2015 #78

+1 daleanime Jun 2015 #86

Exactly!!! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2015 #65

+1 Enthusiast Jun 2015 #76

Yep awoke_in_2003 Jun 2015 #212

The man was genius. Jamastiene Jun 2015 #276

Sadly, I agree. dgibby Jun 2015 #7

Yep, I recall when that Russian professor said that some years ago and I thought he was correct. RKP5637 Jun 2015 #88

Agreed. dgibby Jun 2015 #129

Then we need to push to close and empty military bases in red states ;) nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #201

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2015 #347

I think this is so, esp. the wide gulf between the 2 opposing ideologies which I appalachiablue Jun 2015 #125

I know for a fact that I am not presently in an area that will end up Blue Horse with no Name Jun 2015 #198

There was an author who wrote a book on various forms of democracies JonLP24 Jun 2015 #226

You might be thinking of Alexis de Tocqueville Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #255

It could be but don't think so JonLP24 Jun 2015 #259

Found it JonLP24 Jun 2015 #261

Wow, glad you found it. BlancheSplanchnik Jun 2015 #307

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jun 2015 #8

well I was referring to our country, but in the longer term I think it's endangered cali Jun 2015 #11

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jun 2015 #22

we're not fine now. we have the illusion of democracy. enough people buy into cali Jun 2015 #29

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jun 2015 #62

I didn't say that the current situation wherein money controls elections cali Jun 2015 #70

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jun 2015 #75

do they? I've long thought that humans buy into a heap of mythology cali Jun 2015 #95

Agreements like the TPP totally usurp govt. powers Divernan Jun 2015 #184

I don't disagree with what you say, dgibby Jun 2015 #12

right. democracy as national mythology rather than political reality cali Jun 2015 #20

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jun 2015 #28

I agree. SamKnause Jun 2015 #9

. MohRokTah Jun 2015 #10

smilies indicate an inability to express cogent thought cali Jun 2015 #15

. MohRokTah Jun 2015 #39

...... daleanime Jun 2015 #91

. MohRokTah Jun 2015 #124

...... daleanime Jun 2015 #133

. MohRokTah Jun 2015 #134

. Yorktown Jun 2015 #214

. MohRokTah Jun 2015 #218

. Yorktown Jun 2015 #223

. MohRokTah Jun 2015 #225

. Yorktown Jun 2015 #227

Sounds like someone who needs a hug. Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jun 2015 #209

Agreed. The reins of power are firmly in the hands of the few. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2015 #13

I'm another pebble - this time Independent. 840high Jun 2015 #172

I think you're way overstating things. Truly. MineralMan Jun 2015 #14

no, we functionally do not. cali Jun 2015 #21

And the key part of the illusion is that we do. zeemike Jun 2015 #145

Exactly. They must drive us to despair slowly so we each pound on the castle door one at a time GoneFishin Jun 2015 #253

I call it the best show on earth. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #264

Read Nomi Prins' "It Takes A Pillage" and "All the Presidents' Bankers" hifiguy Jun 2015 #34

...! KoKo Jun 2015 #351

We can't even get people to understand that we need to change how our government works. Many are rhett o rick Jun 2015 #157

And that is why I am 100% behind Bernie Sanders. hifiguy Jun 2015 #173

We have to shake up the system. HRC stands for more of the same. Those that are comfortable rhett o rick Jun 2015 #237

We do not have a functioning democracy. Our elected officials spend Exilednight Jun 2015 #189

Not my elected officials. MineralMan Jun 2015 #191

i call bullshit. Your Senator panders just as much as mine. Exilednight Jun 2015 #195

Call whatever you wish. MineralMan Jun 2015 #197

Who are your Senators? Exilednight Jun 2015 #199

Franken and Klobuchar. MineralMan Jun 2015 #203

Thanks for proving my point. Exilednight Jun 2015 #207

OOOO, dude, you must live near me. I feel sorry for us both. I've tried on this Nay Jun 2015 #324

60% my ass Agony Jun 2015 #216

Your ass? MineralMan Jun 2015 #219

with 45% of registered voters in our precinct casting their ballots Agony Jun 2015 #220

My State had 69.3% turnout in the last election. That was low for us. Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #303

You are right about our MN elected officials - except of course Michelle Bachmann and Tim jwirr Jun 2015 #257

I so much agree. I will be watching the titanic sink ...mostly because I loved the movie. L0oniX Jun 2015 #16

If Hillary is the Nominee. I will not be bothering to vote, nor will I plan to Katashi_itto Jun 2015 #24

Same. I'm not going to play in the 1%'s democracy. L0oniX Jun 2015 #27

I may vote Green or Socialist Workers for POTUS hifiguy Jun 2015 #37

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jun 2015 #183

The sad thing is you may well be right. hifiguy Jun 2015 #192

I'll vote but not for Hillary. 840high Jun 2015 #175

democracy as defined, perhaps bigtree Jun 2015 #17

Have you noticed how easy anymore for people to say your not a democrat when you will Katashi_itto Jun 2015 #18

Almost inspires a click of the bootheals and a straight-armed salute, doesn't it? FiveGoodMen Jun 2015 #154

The Democrats definitely played a role this Primary season daredtowork Jun 2015 #19

The DLC, the Turd Way crowd and hifiguy Jun 2015 #40

Yeah I read some sad and surprising stuff about Carter in Howard Zinn daredtowork Jun 2015 #45

I know I sound like a broken record, but Gregorian Jun 2015 #23

An economic ideology, and that is what it is, hifiguy Jun 2015 #44

Well said! Even as a small child the notion of infinite growth made absolutely RKP5637 Jun 2015 #92

I sadly agree with both of you. Paka Jun 2015 #188

Ultimately Mother Nature will have her revenge hifiguy Jun 2015 #194

I don't know who ever though unlimited growth on a finite planet was a good idea, CrispyQ Jun 2015 #316

Oy. hifiguy Jun 2015 #327

Obviously I agree with you. malthaussen Jun 2015 #323

Yes. N/t PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #25

What is this in reference to? oberliner Jun 2015 #26

no they aren't. I've said repeatedly cali Jun 2015 #41

"The general election will be Bush v Clinton" oberliner Jun 2015 #57

you realize that statistically the candidate with the most money wins the vast majority cali Jun 2015 #77

Maybe Bloomberg will enter the race oberliner Jun 2015 #85

unlikely cali Jun 2015 #96

theoretically we still have the power questionseverything Jun 2015 #87

Really the only thing the Democrats offered us in the '08 primaries A Simple Game Jun 2015 #296

Nothing prevents people from voting for someone else. NYC Liberal Jun 2015 #116

Try to hold those thoughts back, Cali dear, Paka Jun 2015 #190

What makes you say this? Scootaloo Jun 2015 #30

Somebody has to report it... kentuck Jun 2015 #31

Much of the swamp we are now is is directly attributable hifiguy Jun 2015 #46

I could see how someone could argue... kentuck Jun 2015 #112

I think you're probably right...democracy is in clear decline, and not just here in the USA... First Speaker Jun 2015 #32

great post. thanks cali Jun 2015 #43

Very thought-provoking. kentuck Jun 2015 #50

If democracies have one flaw, it's their tendency to be indecisive Zamen Jun 2015 #63

Corporate elites have never been fond of Democracy and these free trade agreements are a octoberlib Jun 2015 #35

Your are describing the Ted Cruz Plan for North America. n/t DhhD Jun 2015 #295

Very insightful article about a powerful theory Divernan Jun 2015 #333

If we have to go down.. sonofspy777 Jun 2015 #36

". I don't want to face a future generation " < You won't. You will be dead and so will they. jtuck004 Jun 2015 #68

I don't think that any of us are saying we surrender. But we do recognize that we are up against jwirr Jun 2015 #38

The enemy within? kentuck Jun 2015 #52

Multinational corporations and the rethugs. Their claws are deep into us already. jwirr Jun 2015 #59

Sheldon Walin calls it Inverted Totalitarianism hifiguy Jun 2015 #64

Thank you. The materialism got its hold on us long ago and they have been teaching us to accept jwirr Jun 2015 #80

Wolin wrote a whole book about it hifiguy Jun 2015 #84

Thanks.... daleanime Jun 2015 #98

I think you are correct with the time period also. kentuck Jun 2015 #115

Pogo was right: dgibby Jun 2015 #126

I think Robespierre said something like that Jackpine Radical Jun 2015 #42

Considering both sides seem to be begging for a dictatorship, I'm worried. Oneironaut Jun 2015 #48

Sheldon Walin called it Inverted Totalitarianism hifiguy Jun 2015 #60

Sheldon Wolin. Democracy Incorporated. Fuddnik Jun 2015 #81

Operator error on my part. hifiguy Jun 2015 #89

Very true. We ceased to be considered "citizens" long ago, truebluegreen Jun 2015 #229

I think this idea of "dictatorship" may have started during the Reagan years? kentuck Jun 2015 #61

Required reading: James Thurbers' "The Royal Astronomer" FSogol Jun 2015 #49

never read the Thurber story. thanks. cali Jun 2015 #54

Frankly, I think democracy and capitalism faded in the 80s when a plutocracy took over Rex Jun 2015 #51

Democracy and neoliberal capitalism are not at all compatible. hifiguy Jun 2015 #108

Reagan made greed and idocy fashionable Skittles Jun 2015 #142

They legitimized white collar crime and flaunted the laws with gusto. Rex Jun 2015 #153

I felt the same way after watching Kerry's "campaign" in 2004, bvar22 Jun 2015 #58

As it continues, that is basically what is going to have to happen for survival. The economy is RKP5637 Jun 2015 #69

You encouraged me dgibby Jun 2015 #143

One of my favorite series of blog postings Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #205

What is the statistical probability Jesus Malverde Jun 2015 #287

Now, if only more nucleated elements would do that. malthaussen Jun 2015 #332

"Dropped Out" ? bvar22 Jun 2015 #356

We spend so much of our lives in openly undemocratic workplaces RufusTFirefly Jun 2015 #66

That, too, is very much by design. hifiguy Jun 2015 #79

Indeed. I find the analogy that the President is the CEO of the country to be appalling. n/t RufusTFirefly Jun 2015 #119

Indeed. hifiguy Jun 2015 #120

Much truth in this! haikugal Jun 2015 #130

Cali, it hasn't been a democracy since the first people walked away from "one big union". n/t jtuck004 Jun 2015 #71

I don't agree OKNancy Jun 2015 #72

Pendulum? daleanime Jun 2015 #102

yep DirtyHippyBastard Jun 2015 #73

Probably not democracy, but liberalism - yes. You can have a democracy even if only the 1% can vote. LiberalArkie Jun 2015 #74

Democracy is a lot more than just having elections. TheKentuckian Jun 2015 #339

So I'm not the only one.... daleanime Jun 2015 #82

I wholeheartedly agree with you. n/t jaysunb Jun 2015 #90

not over by a long shot, but... quickesst Jun 2015 #93

reality is a harsh mistress. And I didn't say it doesn't matter who is president cali Jun 2015 #100

By that reasoning, dgibby Jun 2015 #135

haha... quickesst Jun 2015 #138

so go fly a kite. And try improving your reading comprehension cali Jun 2015 #159

really... quickesst Jun 2015 #185

True. Many have given up, so many more have never even tried. raouldukelives Jun 2015 #305

This message was self-deleted by its author CrispyQ Jun 2015 #325

I've had that same thought for a long time. Fuddnik Jun 2015 #94

GREAT post. hifiguy Jun 2015 #97

"frankly, what I think we're doing here, is documenting the last gasps of capitalism." Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2015 #99

I wish. I don't see that at all cali Jun 2015 #101

I do. With the overreach.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2015 #127

I was here in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. DrBulldog Jun 2015 #103

I go all the way back to the 40s. Paka Jun 2015 #204

Yes, we're having to refight too many battles that we thought we had won in the '60s. Blue_In_AK Jun 2015 #104

More like the last gasp at capitalism RoccoR5955 Jun 2015 #105

I do think capitalism, especially neoliberal capitalism hifiguy Jun 2015 #114

Absolutely! What's being discussed in this thread is a reflection of a global process. GliderGuider Jun 2015 #170

Not if we do what it says RoccoR5955 Jun 2015 #215

Totally agree. We are not just facing the end of capitalism - that is bad enough but then we must jwirr Jun 2015 #263

Damage control. malthaussen Jun 2015 #106

the undoing of democracy is manifested in the hopemountain Jun 2015 #107

And I am thankful it is in it's last gasps. MyNameGoesHere Jun 2015 #109

Fascism is closing its talons around us, and the trains don't even run on time. Arugula Latte Jun 2015 #110

Serious props for the historical allusion to Mussolini and the deeper truth your KingCharlemagne Jun 2015 #202

Thank you, Comrade! Arugula Latte Jun 2015 #250

Neo-McCarthyism and the US Media--Russia/Ukraine "The Nation" KoKo Jun 2015 #354

Too many politicians & corporate types seriously loved the Fascism of the 1930's DJ13 Jun 2015 #111

I agree with the 'I find it fascinating'. I get a lot of heat Purveyor Jun 2015 #113

The National Security State. We've gone from idealism to fear and not by accident. jalan48 Jun 2015 #117

Raygun + PNAC + MIC + Big $$$ = Fascist Amerikkka. hifiguy Jun 2015 #123

said that very thing to Mrs. Lib this morning rurallib Jun 2015 #118

No. 63splitwindow Jun 2015 #122

Are you saying that Cali is just upset because she didn't get her pony? Maedhros Jun 2015 #208

Well, there's your problem... 63splitwindow Jun 2015 #230

yes indeedy, CU never happened. the post 2010 gerrymandering didn't cali Jun 2015 #278

Justifying a thread title of... 63splitwindow Jun 2015 #322

continue living in fantasy land. cali Jun 2015 #330

Imagine it's 1812, and the British have just burnt down the White House. It would feel like the end grahamhgreen Jun 2015 #128

The problem is that neoliberal capitalism has the power hifiguy Jun 2015 #139

Good point. n/t vkkv Jun 2015 #141

Why can't we return to THE GOOD OLD DAYS of Democracy..... brooklynite Jun 2015 #132

"With the thoughts you'd be thinkin', you could be another Lincoln" RufusTFirefly Jun 2015 #147

Well said. Thank you. nt truebluegreen Jun 2015 #232

That's not our only choice, but you clearly don't care. nm rhett o rick Jun 2015 #160

I however am not giving up on Democracy... brooklynite Jun 2015 #186

Would you care to expand on that? I love America, I love Mother, I love apple pie. rhett o rick Jun 2015 #235

By working hard to elect people who can make a difference... brooklynite Jun 2015 #252

" By working hard to elect people who can make a difference...". Did you type that rhett o rick Jun 2015 #262

Imo it's due to entering stage iii capitalism where in capitalism goes cannibalistic HereSince1628 Jun 2015 #136

We are not just observing plutocracy in action, sadoldgirl Jun 2015 #137

What I hope we're seeing... justaddh2o Jun 2015 #140

The End of Democracy Koinos Jun 2015 #171

except history proves the exact opposite. KittyWampus Jun 2015 #146

what? do explain. cali Jun 2015 #162

If a Republican yuiyoshida Jun 2015 #148

Doubtful they would SHUT down the gov't Merlot Jun 2015 #174

Ted Cruz and his friends yuiyoshida Jun 2015 #177

They would transform what is left of the government hifiguy Jun 2015 #180

Oh the humanity... giftedgirl77 Jun 2015 #149

care to refute that money now completely dominates our political system? cali Jun 2015 #158

When your OP provides anything of context I'll be happy to do so. giftedgirl77 Jun 2015 #165

Well, now that you've shown up to mock the OP Maedhros Jun 2015 #210

Here's some context for you: OnyxCollie Jun 2015 #258

With some exceptions of people who lovemydog Jun 2015 #282

here you go, girl cali Jun 2015 #283

I just finished watching a documentary on Free Speech TV, "Pay to Play". Fuddnik Jun 2015 #238

Yup nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #150

People don't realize we're on the edge, every time we knuckle under Democracy is lost, orpupilofnature57 Jun 2015 #152

Agreed - Citizens United - Worst Development In My Lifetime cantbeserious Jun 2015 #155

that really is a pivotal event, and at just the most dangerous time cali Jun 2015 #166

That and the ' Patriot Act ' and you know the TPP will starve people in to orpupilofnature57 Jun 2015 #169

I Disagree! Ideas are Very Powerful mckara Jun 2015 #156

mouths are powerful, but they don't constitute reality cali Jun 2015 #161

Good Ideas Never Die if People Survive mckara Jun 2015 #249

I disagree. Democracy is easy when you have resouces. When Goldman-Sachs and Wall Street rhett o rick Jun 2015 #167

That has been the end game of the plutocracy hifiguy Jun 2015 #182

How far do you think we will sink before the idiots wake up and smell the plutocratic-oligarchy. nm rhett o rick Jun 2015 #236

Probably about the same level of hifiguy Jun 2015 #242

It May Take Thousands of Years mckara Jun 2015 #247

I'm not gonna say 'why bother' because I've been where you are. PatrickforO Jun 2015 #163

Wish I didn't - I do agree. 840high Jun 2015 #168

I'd like not to agree that we are documenting the last gasp of democracy, but . . . Jack Rabbit Jun 2015 #178

Well said. Maedhros Jun 2015 #213

Back at ya Jack Rabbit Jun 2015 #224

Here's the Little Sparrow: malthaussen Jun 2015 #336

Agreed. Sadly nt riderinthestorm Jun 2015 #179

We can all blame the Politicians, the Lobbyists, The Big Money Koch Bros factor BUT it starts truedelphi Jun 2015 #181

Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want Zorro Jun 2015 #187

The quoting of Mencken perfectly demonstrates the shallow thinking of the negative minded. Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #233

Lighten up, Francis Zorro Jun 2015 #239

Nice personal attack there, sport. You made the citation, and what I say stands about what Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #243

Voters get what they vote for in democratic elections Zorro Jun 2015 #248

Poining out that Mencken was a racist bigot and literally an anti democratic elitist who favored Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #300

I agree with you Cali Horse with no Name Jun 2015 #196

Anything that can be done can be undone. Kevin from WI Jun 2015 #200

It's certainly in critical condition. immoderate Jun 2015 #206

Democracy would probably be stronger moondust Jun 2015 #211

I think.. sendero Jun 2015 #217

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Jun 2015 #221

Will you defeatists kindly move the fuck out of the way? Paladin Jun 2015 #222

You may have work to do. sendero Jun 2015 #244

Thanks for that vote of confidence, Sunshine. (nt) Paladin Jun 2015 #299

You know what posts like yours raise my hackles. sendero Jun 2015 #312

Well, we wouldn't want to raise your hackles, would we? Paladin Jun 2015 #314

Keep.. sendero Jun 2015 #317

I agree. truebluegreen Jun 2015 #228

My wife and I were discussing this at dinner tonight - we agree. NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 #234

Why? What's the reason? And what does "the last gasps if democracy" mean? DanTex Jun 2015 #240

Pessimism is an elitist habit, for the affluent and the fully franchised. The rest need hope. Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #241

Beautiful quote from Howard Zinn. Thank you for lighting a candle instead of cursing the darkness.nt Hekate Jun 2015 #260

Well said! bettyellen Jun 2015 #265

Elitist? MFrohike Jun 2015 #267

Yes, elitism has a blind appeal. Look at the chosen verbiage in this thread. It's all about self Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #301

That doesn't make pessimism elitist MFrohike Jun 2015 #346

I respect the hell out of Zinn hifiguy Jun 2015 #271

Zinn repeated: Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #306

We've had monumental levels of corruption and malfeasance in the past Babel_17 Jun 2015 #245

Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt. I have to ask wtf are any of you doing at a place like this? Hekate Jun 2015 #251

I strongly disagree with you. herding cats Jun 2015 #254

That's the ticket! You have it exactly right! Hekate Jun 2015 #268

Thank you! herding cats Jun 2015 #352

sorry, history and statistics prove you wrong. cali Jun 2015 #279

No, they don't. herding cats Jun 2015 #344

**before anyone says to me:** Raine1967 Jun 2015 #256

I'd like to respond to your elegiac OP with . . . what else? . . . a poem: KingCharlemagne Jun 2015 #266

Insightful flamingdem Jun 2015 #270

Kick. SixString Jun 2015 #272

"Don't waste any time in mourning. Organize" - Joe Hill to Big Bill Haywood struggle4progress Jun 2015 #273

+1 octoberlib Jun 2015 #274

I feel I'm part of a struggle toward more democracy. lovemydog Jun 2015 #275

we do not have one person one vote. that has been massively diluted cali Jun 2015 #277

It's always been diluted. lovemydog Jun 2015 #281

yes, but we've been lurching backwards at a staggering pace, not making progress cali Jun 2015 #284

In many ways I agree. lovemydog Jun 2015 #285

Time to become a doomsday prepper. joshcryer Jun 2015 #280

calm yourself, Josh. saying that we no longer live in a functional cali Jun 2015 #286

Fascism isn't the end of the world? joshcryer Jun 2015 #288

no, it's already an oligarchy. Shitty as it is, it's not the end of the cali Jun 2015 #289

Clickbait. stonecutter357 Jun 2015 #290

not even remotely so cali Jun 2015 #291

I think the traditional conservative power elites deutsey Jun 2015 #292

I think you're right about how changing demographics struck fear into cons cali Jun 2015 #293

it's a whole pile of things that converged MisterP Jun 2015 #350

its not good for sure Cosmocat Jun 2015 #294

Representative democracy has turned into an oligarchy and even that will soon be replaced CJCRANE Jun 2015 #297

Non-verifiable, no-paper-trail, vote switching electronic voting machines Pooka Fey Jun 2015 #298

Not one single voting machine in my State, every ballot is paper, every voter can make a fucking Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #308

I live abroad. Citizens here vote paper, hand counted. Pooka Fey Jun 2015 #311

If it wasn't so, why the Permawar RW Surveillance State that remains no matter who we vote in? Octafish Jun 2015 #302

In 2000 I new the gig was up ctsnowman Jun 2015 #304

We are watching the inevitable full assimilation of the Democratic party into the War/Money Party. leveymg Jun 2015 #309

Harvey Milk on why pessimism is a nasty elitist habit: Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #310

this isn't about pessimism. it's about facing reality and facts cali Jun 2015 #313

This. And how do the "optimists" suggest hifiguy Jun 2015 #331

agreed nt G_j Jun 2015 #319

Like a infection - if intervention doesn't occur, it will spread and kill the whole body. Avalux Jun 2015 #320

You are not alone, by a long shot. We are in the last gasps of Democracy. And we have one chance to sabrina 1 Jun 2015 #321

Is separating "Social" from the "Economic" a horseman of the oligarchic apocalypse? daredtowork Jun 2015 #328

yes to what you wrote cali Jun 2015 #329

I disagree but understand the sentiment. raouldukelives Jun 2015 #334

This is an outstanding thread - with thoughtful, learned comments from many. Divernan Jun 2015 #335

if the Dems lose '16 that means exactly two things: MisterP Jun 2015 #348

Better to Fight than to Whine McKim Jun 2015 #337

Better to grasp the situation realistically than live in ignorant denial cali Jun 2015 #338

unfortunately too many people believe that electing Hillary Clinton is somehow Doctor_J Jun 2015 #342

That delusion is beyond any attempt at quantification. hifiguy Jun 2015 #349

What these kind of things do is just make people madder and more Maraya1969 Jun 2015 #340

last gasps of the American experiment. self government is still thriving in northern Europe Doctor_J Jun 2015 #341

Sadly, the psychopaths are winning, because they are bullies, thieves, liars, abusers and killers. Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #343

The gutting of the voting rights act was the final straw for me. lark Jun 2015 #345

It unleashed the last of the "Terribles" KoKo Jun 2015 #355