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frazzled

(18,402 posts)

26. You know, this doesn't even come close to

Sat Jun 13, 2015, 06:42 PM

Jun 2015

being a convincing or useful argument, if your aim is to drive people away from Hillary Clinton. Anyone who listened to the speech did not come away with anything like a "pro-slaughter" sentiment (she talked about bringing all the other diplomatic and economic powers to bear), and your statement that a "war president can't be progressive" is patently absurd: I thought of FDR immediately, too.

Indeed, I watched Bernie Sanders on Charlie Rose the other night, and he sounded pretty hawkish, by your standards. He was asked if he agreed with Obama's decision to send 450 more troops as advisors. He started to agree and then said he hadn't fully studied it, but that (insert positive things here about Obama's policies in that regard) we needed to defeat ISIS. "Slaughterer?"

Hyperbole is not effective argumentation. Distorting speech isn't effective argumentation. Any presidential candidate is going to have to say they will keep this country safe. If you see blood dripping out the sides of their mouths, that's your problem. The rest of America will see it as a kind of basic requirement.

Fail on the attempt to scare people.

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With her speech today, HRC made herself the pro-slaughter candidate. [View all] Ken Burch Jun 2015 OP

"A war president can't be progressive." Horizens Jun 2015 #1

+1 - better response than mine! OKNancy Jun 2015 #3

Stop stating facts. Its not nice. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #4

If you consider WWII like the mess we are in now then I understand you being confused. nt Logical Jun 2015 #5

My good sir I may be confused on many things but at this moment I am not. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #7

FDR was great, but he was unable to do anything progressive domestically AFTER 12/7/41. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #11

Yet he was a progressive man. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #13

Yes. But not a progressive president after 1941. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #17

Very true but he did not do it in peace time as well. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #19

What else can "whatever it takes" mean? Ken Burch Jun 2015 #24

She is telling people she will defend this nation. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #28

FDR did "whatever it takes" to defend this nation OnyxCollie Jun 2015 #71

Is Hillary going to put Americans in camps? hrmjustin Jun 2015 #75

What's her position on domestic surveillance? OnyxCollie Jun 2015 #80

Are you saying she is going to put Americans in camps? i don't. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #85

Stop putting words in my mouth. OnyxCollie Jun 2015 #94

You said. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #99

"Turn Japanese" as in give up your Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights. OnyxCollie Jun 2015 #101

No i am not cool with killing Americans without trial. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #102

Educate me about what? OnyxCollie Jun 2015 #105

Hillary's positions on issues. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #106

Since you were content with Hillary doing "whatever it takes" to "defend the nation," OnyxCollie Jun 2015 #112

Never been to Chipotle. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #113

Put that right below "Hillary Clinton's position on domestic surveillance" OnyxCollie Jun 2015 #114

You do not know a damn thing about me. In any event this conversation is at an end. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #115

I know you're clueless about the candidate you're supporting. OnyxCollie Jun 2015 #116

Why should we assume she wouldn't? Ken Burch Jun 2015 #118

Are you for real? hrmjustin Jun 2015 #119

If Obama is capable of keeping Gitmo open, why assume HRC would be above anything? Ken Burch Jun 2015 #121

Bye now. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #124

I'm sorry, but I can't restrain myself from posting this: Ken Burch Jun 2015 #138

No need to apologize. OnyxCollie Jun 2015 #162

He was very progressive in peace time. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #30

More war just raises the poverty levels at home. It enriches the MIC and Goldman-Sachs rhett o rick Jun 2015 #160

It could be, unless we fight like hell to stop it. n/t. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #164

Seems the neocons have influence in the Democratic Party. nm rhett o rick Jun 2015 #171

Thanks for that. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #8

+1000 nt Logical Jun 2015 #79

The point wasn't a comparison of the wars Blue_Tires Jun 2015 #123

You reversed my meaning. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #174

That would be the FDR who said "Dr. New Deal has been replaced by Dr. Win-The War". Ken Burch Jun 2015 #6

Roosevelt established his progressive policies and set out in a progressive direction JDPriestly Jun 2015 #47

LOL but that's not what was said... Drunken Irishman Jun 2015 #62

He was less progressive in his second term(and agreed, there was no excuse for that). Ken Burch Jun 2015 #82

He also was able to do things because he had a massive congress and a great depression... Drunken Irishman Jun 2015 #168

Forcing 120,000 Japanese nationals and Japanese Americans OnyxCollie Jun 2015 #70

Uh, Nazi Germany truly posed an existential threat to everything good and decent cheapdate Jun 2015 #83

In 1932 FDR did not run as a war president dflprincess Jun 2015 #155

I rewrote the phrase you're mocking. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #188

Oh good grief OKNancy Jun 2015 #2

The best way to keep this country safe is to leave the rest of the world alone for once. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #9

+1 "leave the rest of the world alone" They don't have the guts to do that. L0oniX Jun 2015 #46

I watched the little ant doing the infinity sign on your post with that thought till I realized nightscanner59 Jun 2015 #65

Bernie doesn't the guts to do it either... brooklynite Jun 2015 #144

We have inadvertently provided weapons to groups like ISIS because of our excessive JDPriestly Jun 2015 #59

It wasn't inadvertent. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #64

Please pm me with the directions for that "smilie". Ken Burch Jun 2015 #74

It's right here, Enthusiast Jun 2015 #165

Indeed, it wasn't. SammyWinstonJack Jun 2015 #90

Thank you OKNancy! ellisonz Jun 2015 #12

When you say whatever it takes you include zeemike Jun 2015 #58

See post #66 Rex Jun 2015 #67

You miss the point. We have more important issues than spreading democracy in the Middle East. rhett o rick Jun 2015 #161

Yeah, like spreading democracy HERE in the USA, instead of digging us deeper into the hole of PatrickforO Jun 2015 #167

Exactly. nm rhett o rick Jun 2015 #170

If our leaders cared about "spreading democracy in the Middle East" Ken Burch Jun 2015 #175

Democracy isn't like peanut butter, you can't spread it. The best one can do is rhett o rick Jun 2015 #181

True. In this day and age, a country can only become democratic from within and from below. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #184

Americans want progressive domestic policy and... JaneyVee Jun 2015 #10

They don't want a perpetually massive war budget. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #15

Ok, but Americans very much want a strong defense. JaneyVee Jun 2015 #20

The best way to make this country more secure Ken Burch Jun 2015 #23

Which nations? JaneyVee Jun 2015 #29

A stronge defense, yes. Not a strong offense. SaranchaIsWaiting Jun 2015 #56

The military budget is bloated and few would disagree unless they profit directly. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #69

Our military is not set up primarily for defense and hasn't been for a long time. A Simple Game Jun 2015 #93

"No war can ever be progressive or liberating again, and none can ever be feminist." OilemFirchen Jun 2015 #35

What's so weird about it? Ken Burch Jun 2015 #72

Go tell the people of BiH. OilemFirchen Jun 2015 #100

Bosnia was twenty years ago, and that was a negotiated settlement, not any military victory. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #117

Oh bullshit. OilemFirchen Jun 2015 #128

What is "trippy" about my definition of war? Ken Burch Jun 2015 #130

Yet you excuse WWII. OilemFirchen Jun 2015 #131

I excuse that because wars can never have that effect again. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #142

Place All You Are Over OilemFirchen Jun 2015 #147

"PLACE ALL YOU ARE OVER"? is that a thing? Ken Burch Jun 2015 #150

You're confusing me. OilemFirchen Jun 2015 #152

The difference between us is Ken Burch Jun 2015 #154

I didn't attack you. OilemFirchen Jun 2015 #156

You've personally mocked me. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #158

This is the same attitude of the KKK XemaSab Jun 2015 #14

Exactly. Thank you for that. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #16

+1000 BeanMusical Jun 2015 #108

this much we pledge -- and more... wyldwolf Jun 2015 #18

And with that, JFK doomed us to Vietnam. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #21

Name a Democratic president who felt differently? wyldwolf Jun 2015 #25

None did. And it's a tragedy that none did. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #27

Do you consider yourself a big 'D' Democrat? wyldwolf Jun 2015 #33

big-D and small-d. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #36

Gives me a better perspective of your ideology wyldwolf Jun 2015 #37

It's about both. BTW, I don't have an "ideology"-just sincere personal convictions. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #81

Christ on a trailer hitch, do you know nothing of context? He was a young WW II veteran.... Hekate Jun 2015 #32

George McGovern was a World War II veteran, too. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #84

Seems that JFK also doomed his own crew with negligence. L0oniX Jun 2015 #49

is there any candidate who disagrees with that ? JI7 Jun 2015 #22

Exactly...a mundane statement that every candidate will make at some point BeyondGeography Jun 2015 #53

No, this is just silly imo. nt Rex Jun 2015 #68

You know, this doesn't even come close to frazzled Jun 2015 #26

And that's probably OK.... daleanime Jun 2015 #40

I kind of doubt it frazzled Jun 2015 #51

So people should give you the benefit of a doubt..... daleanime Jun 2015 #55

I read the whole of the foreign policy section of the speech. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #145

I think he's trying the RDSL technique. OilemFirchen Jun 2015 #103

Hillary Clinton madokie Jun 2015 #31

So you prefer a president who wouldn't do what ever it takes to keep this country safe? EX500rider Jun 2015 #34

I suspect most ordinary folks expect their leaders to keep them safe.../NT DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #38

Keeping us safe and going to war are 2 different things..It sounds movonne Jun 2015 #48

That does not even begin to surface in Hillary's statement treestar Jun 2015 #98

You are confusing political rhetoric with reality. They have nothing in common Jack Rabbit Jun 2015 #60

I'd prefer one who at least kept that within the bounds of morality and human decency. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #87

... SidDithers Jun 2015 #39

Concise and to the point. randome Jun 2015 #42

Hillary has sent DU over the collective edge... SidDithers Jun 2015 #44

Only ones who have a mind to lose, Sid. leveymg Jun 2015 #127

Like this? JoePhilly Jun 2015 #179

Only if Brad Pitt is available: freshwest Jun 2015 #194

Don't knock it! As it's a great place to practice creative writing skills and dramatic fiction: freshwest Jun 2015 #195

Well, maybe we should just PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #41

Oh good grief! leftofcool Jun 2015 #43

Unless you think Bernie Sanders is going to be an isolationist/pacifist brooklynite Jun 2015 #45

You mean the ones where he tells Middle Easern countries to fight their own battles? Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2015 #77

He won't see force as the default solution to most problems Ken Burch Jun 2015 #88

Funny, I thought she was working for President Oabama... brooklynite Jun 2015 #109

She hasn't been SoS since 2013. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #111

I love "it's pretty clear"... brooklynite Jun 2015 #140

Bernie is not versed on foreign affairs, lacks enough experience. He has not shown he is willing to Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #50

lol. bernie has served in Congress for 25 years, and his choices and decisions cali Jun 2015 #63

Then he has a problem and one of the responsibilities of a president is making the Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #73

you don't have to be a hawk to protect this country. people who vote for cali Jun 2015 #86

If you would have given the true story instead of the talking point we would discuss this further. Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #95

Totally agree with you. BeanMusical Jun 2015 #110

I, for one, am confident Bernie is well versed on foreign affairs mountain grammy Jun 2015 #92

He will be elected, even if he gets the nomination he can't beat the republicans and he knows. Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #151

Lol! zappaman Jun 2015 #52

K&R Cleita Jun 2015 #54

when's she ever met a war she didn't like? MisterP Jun 2015 #57

Another victim of Hillary Derangement Syndrome. n/t pnwmom Jun 2015 #61

So, hmmm...every MALE candidate has probably said that or would say that Rex Jun 2015 #66

Most of us are just as offended when a male candidate says things like that. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #120

You got a rat in your pocket? (n/t) OilemFirchen Jun 2015 #134

You seriously think that opposing HRC's militarism is the same thing as being Willard? Ken Burch Jun 2015 #146

They all say it, like "Gold bless America". You cannot mean to tell me the sloganeering Rex Jun 2015 #136

It's her JOB to prove that a woman can be a good Commander In Chief.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2015 #76

Yes, yes, of course. NanceGreggs Jun 2015 #78

She's a woman Depaysement Jun 2015 #89

FFS! Every candidate will say the same thing. MineralMan Jun 2015 #91

Every candidate will say they'll try to protect the country. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #133

So they all say it, but you attack her for saying it Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #180

I'd at least expect them to say "I won't launch the nukes first" Ken Burch Jun 2015 #182

There is no way I would take that statement that way treestar Jun 2015 #96

She still has the Scoop Jackson mindset. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #177

I get what you are saying. Kalidurga Jun 2015 #97

The HRC Warhawk Lives Up To Her Reputation cantbeserious Jun 2015 #104

All you Blind Faithful wanna come on in for the big win now ? orpupilofnature57 Jun 2015 #107

This type of anti-Hillary garbage has no place here. DCBob Jun 2015 #122

Not without some limits. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #125

So you assume she has no limits?? DCBob Jun 2015 #126

Based on what she backed in Haiti and Honduras, yes. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #129

She is a typical Democrat when it comes to national security. DCBob Jun 2015 #132

Most Democrats are not ok with abetting right-wing coups in the Americas Ken Burch Jun 2015 #173

Not sure how to break this to you, Bob, but Hillary supporters are in the minority here. leveymg Jun 2015 #135

Surprising since this is supposed to be a pro- Democratic site... DCBob Jun 2015 #141

Didn't really hit that one straight and center, Bob. leveymg Jun 2015 #148

I have no idea what you are implying.. DCBob Jun 2015 #149

You're the one who called the non-Hillary majority here "an infestation." leveymg Jun 2015 #153

That would be the McCarthy and RFK Democrats whose candidates took over 69.9% of the primary vote Ken Burch Jun 2015 #157

Ah yes...the bubble brooklynite Jun 2015 #143

at least they gave us this website JI7 Jun 2015 #163

Amen Brother! Well Said! 2banon Jun 2015 #137

I am convinced Hillary or any of the GOP will keep the US in perpetual war. AtomicKitten Jun 2015 #139

she lifted that line directly from the boilerplate republican speech. let's see which duers cheer Doctor_J Jun 2015 #159

You're right, Ken. If we are to EVER have hope for social, economic and environmental justice, PatrickforO Jun 2015 #166

It didn't start with this speech, Ken TBF Jun 2015 #169

You'd think she'd remember how badly the "vaporize Iran" stance backfired on her. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #172

Well I'm pro Slaughter too ...Mark Slaughter. L0oniX Jun 2015 #176

And yet we have Bernie, has access to security briefings but overlooks any action to halt ISIS. WTH Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #178

We can't do anything to stop ISIS. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #185

Well, it just may be our fight. we have already had the two guys in Texas, maybe just wannabes but Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #186

What do you want us to do? Put boots on the ground in every Arab/Muslim country? Ken Burch Jun 2015 #187

Pssssssst: She's clueless about domestic issues also. Smarmie Doofus Jun 2015 #183

Yeah! Who cares about criminal justice reform... brooklynite Jun 2015 #189

None of which can happen in an adminstration that keeps an interventionist foreign policy going. Ken Burch Jun 2015 #193

I guess that the hyperbole in this place will continue until the election. Beacool Jun 2015 #190

"Whatever it takes" is the same thing as saying "I agree with Cheney on foreign policy". Ken Burch Jun 2015 #192

Unrec. Your hyperbole got out and is running all around the forum! FSogol Jun 2015 #191