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PowerToThePeople

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85. NAFTA did not create more prosperity, the tech balloon did. Lasted until 2000 when it popped. n/t

Reply to Recursion (Reply #19)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:32 AM

Jun 2015

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My main concerns with the TPP, TISA, TTIP, etc. are not job losses but the [View all] cali Jun 2015 OP

I think the word is fascism, and I think your right . orpupilofnature57 Jun 2015 #1

Agree peacebird Jun 2015 #5

Completely agree Betty Karlson Jun 2015 #52

Easiest solution in the world is to better regulate corporations. randome Jun 2015 #2

except as has been demonstrated repeatedly over recent years, it's one cali Jun 2015 #3

Yes, well, I meant 'easy' in concept. randome Jun 2015 #4

True, but it will happen sooner or later because they always go too far! Dustlawyer Jun 2015 #39

You really do buy into the corporate mind set. fasttense Jun 2015 #21

Corporations are given the right to function by the state. The state has every right to regulate Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #46

Thank you. Cannot be said too often. So many people do not think about this undeniable JDPriestly Jun 2015 #79

Exactly n/t fasttense Jun 2015 #88

Unfortunately, the intent of our founding Fathers to limit corporate power... Human101948 Jun 2015 #151

Thank you for the additional information and link, Human. Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #153

You are surely welcome, Shirley! Human101948 Jun 2015 #154

That would be from the ongoing war on public education and misinformation from the media. Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #155

Well stated Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #48

"Corporations have no right to anything, nothing. " SusanCalvin Jun 2015 #53

Corporations are not people but they are owned and run by people. randome Jun 2015 #58

I think that is what Mitt Romney was trying to get to as well when he said corporations are people. fasttense Jun 2015 #90

I have an LLC alc Jun 2015 #135

NO, your LLC should have absolutely NO Rights to anything. fasttense Jun 2015 #149

That is precisely why the TPP and its trade arbitration courts are such a bad idea. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #103

You wouldn't have to worry about "trade arbitration courts" if it were not for FDR and Truman. pampango Jun 2015 #116

Actually, Wilson favored more trade too. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #122

Color me a Wilson, FDR, Truman and Scandanavian Democrat then. pampango Jun 2015 #137

You have it exactly backwards. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2015 #62

Not easy at all BlindTiresias Jun 2015 #78

Do you prefer for there not to be a WTO arbitrater between corporations and countries? Recursion Jun 2015 #6

Because ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #8

You owe me a keyboard, 1SBM Recursion Jun 2015 #9

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #10

Lol! I'm flattered. bettyellen Jun 2015 #130

Disaster capitalism at work here. salib Jun 2015 #12

We are doing something that works for the 99% Recursion Jun 2015 #14

Again, simply because you have identified an issue salib Jun 2015 #17

People said the same thing about NAFTA. But things got better after it. Recursion Jun 2015 #19

define "better" and provide a source please Fast Walker 52 Jun 2015 #23

Higher median wages, lower unemployment, lower discouraged worker rate, higher household income Recursion Jun 2015 #26

source? Fast Walker 52 Jun 2015 #34

post hoc ergo proctor hoc, no? Vattel Jun 2015 #54

I think you are confusing the tech "dot com boom" bubble that was being inflated at that time... cascadiance Jun 2015 #84

Don't be silly. The dot com bubble destroyed tens of millions of jobs. More than a trade agreement Recursion Jun 2015 #123

They built jobs to start with when you quote statistics on what happened with NAFTA... cascadiance Jun 2015 #125

No, it destroyed jobs to start with. It was *entirely* about replacing people with software Recursion Jun 2015 #127

You obviously don't understand the software industry either! cascadiance Jun 2015 #131

I'm a UNIX sysadmin and programmer. The only thing software does is replace people Recursion Jun 2015 #132

People's salary since around NAFTA, have flattened out or gone down... cascadiance Jun 2015 #136

Your own chart shows they were up more after 1994 than before Recursion Jun 2015 #139

You are ignoring productivity gains over that time... cascadiance Jun 2015 #141

I'm looking at the real wage level Recursion Jun 2015 #144

Climate change got better after NAFTA? raouldukelives Jun 2015 #29

No, that got worse. Recursion Jun 2015 #31

Global greenhouse gas emmissions closely track global economic growth bhikkhu Jun 2015 #55

actually this makes sense as we only get world GDP by burning cheap fossil fuels. airplaneman Jun 2015 #65

Delusional. salib Jun 2015 #64

NAFTA did not create more prosperity, the tech balloon did. Lasted until 2000 when it popped. n/t PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #85

The tech balloon was entirely about replacing people with software Recursion Jun 2015 #129

Record stores didn't go out of business until more recently with the advent of Itunes, etc. cascadiance Jun 2015 #138

If things had gotten better after NAFTA, we would not be arguing against the TPP. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #106

Things got better only for the .01%. Not for me and the rest of us 99.99% Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #156

If corporations and Republicans are supporting TPP, it's bad, period n/t eridani Jun 2015 #80

Who benefits from the TPP? JDPriestly Jun 2015 #105

Trade negotiations with the general public's interests fully represented at the negotiating table Tom Rinaldo Jun 2015 #13

Way to think outside the corporate entitlement box Tom. fasttense Jun 2015 #30

exactly! It's the secrecy that gets me. Fast Walker 52 Jun 2015 #35

+1 Marr Jun 2015 #37

Very well said, Tom. jomin41 Jun 2015 #38

China and India! raindaddy Jun 2015 #15

Sure, and they've done that. They've also taken millions of jobs Recursion Jun 2015 #16

I'd say the American middle class lost way more jobs than were gained... raindaddy Jun 2015 #20

Huh? China and India have taken more jobs than countries with free trade agreements Recursion Jun 2015 #22

And Vietnam let's not forget them... raindaddy Jun 2015 #32

Is it your contention that the US actually *has* enforced standards elsewhere? Jim Lane Jun 2015 #33

Excellent Jim Lane! raindaddy Jun 2015 #44

Well, there's Metalclad versus Mexico Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #51

Even the judge selected by Mexico agreed with the decision. In any event, Metaclad lost its plant. Hoyt Jun 2015 #57

Oh, FFS Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #59

You lame attempts at citing example is more shameful. You never go further than some headline Hoyt Jun 2015 #60

Mexico can't possibly have any better use for its tax dollars than using them-- eridani Jun 2015 #81

Mexico asked to be part of TPP. Why? Because they want the jobs Hoyt Jun 2015 #89

Whatchu mean "Mexico," Kemosabe? Most of the people who live there, or eridani Jun 2015 #92

I mean the elected Mexican government trying to move their people from 50 cent a day jobs. Hoyt Jun 2015 #93

Sure. Just like after NAFTA fucked them over in the 90s, they'll react by moving here eridani Jun 2015 #94

Look at situation today, not 10 years ago. Do you actually think these type Hoyt Jun 2015 #96

The analysis took place 10 years after NAFTA eridani Jun 2015 #97

Yet the officials signing/supporting these agreements keep getting reelected. Hoyt Jun 2015 #98

Whores get lots of money for campaigning n/t eridani Jun 2015 #99

We get it, you have no respect for Mexicans. Do you feel that way about all poor foreign Hoyt Jun 2015 #100

Yay! Let's hear it for poor people in rich countries providing financial aid to eridani Jun 2015 #101

No respect for the Mexican government. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #113

Corruption. And the proof that the corruption is the reason is the killing fields of Mexico. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #111

Folks are going to find a rationale(s) to turn our backs on Mexico. That's the way it's always Hoyt Jun 2015 #114

I live on a tiny bit of land we "stole" from Mexico. It is quite Mexican. Trust me on that. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #124

Maybe they think they'll be able to sue us for the ag subsidies we give to big ag here... cascadiance Jun 2015 #142

Mexico asked to be part of the TPP? Who in Mexico asked to be part of the TPP?? JDPriestly Jun 2015 #108

So all government officials, even in Bernie Sanders' favorite Scandinavian countries, are Oligarchs Hoyt Jun 2015 #109

You mean the case that Metalclad lost in a WTO appeals court? Recursion Jun 2015 #70

What the blazes are you talking about? Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #72

The Mexican government was required to buy back the property Metalclad had bought Recursion Jun 2015 #73

Mexico disagreed with the decision Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #74

I have no doubt Mexico would have prefered not to buy the property back Recursion Jun 2015 #75

Mexico would have been pleased if all they had to do was refund the purchase price Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #76

Thanks, I missed that they assessed the improvements Recursion Jun 2015 #77

Do you have anything to back up your claim? Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #83

So let's make it clear to companies like Metalclad that they have no right to come in, buy JDPriestly Jun 2015 #115

I want a TA-Trade Agreement for the workers of America, not a Free Market Agreement for the Corp DhhD Jun 2015 #36

Post removed Post removed Jun 2015 #102

One excellent idea would be strong labelling laws... raindaddy Jun 2015 #24

The WTO just rained on that parade. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #117

I was being facetious in my response JD... raindaddy Jun 2015 #134

And you should see all the plastic wrapping in our recycle bins -- wrapping that is necessary JDPriestly Jun 2015 #107

China and India do not have free trade agreements with the US. You keep skipping that Recursion Jun 2015 #110

And we should impose tariffs on their goods in order to protect our industry. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #126

That's lunatic. It's not "because of corruption" it's "because our GDP would shrink 30%" Recursion Jun 2015 #128

No economist takes protectionism seriously YoungDemCA Jun 2015 #147

And economists are wrong. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #148

I would like to see a parallel process for public interest groups and cali Jun 2015 #25

I'd really like that too (nt) Recursion Jun 2015 #27

Yes, fasttense Jun 2015 #28

Yes. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #118

Our model is opening the gap between the uber wealthy and the lower 99% at a startling rate. rhett o rick Jun 2015 #68

No. The past 20 years have been the biggest reduction of global inequality in world history Recursion Jun 2015 #69

I'm sure RoR can defend their statement, but .. this shit again? Comeon... MrMickeysMom Jun 2015 #71

Thank you, you said it much better than I. "walking outside your door to find where in the fuck rhett o rick Jun 2015 #91

I worked for a homeless agency for years. A lot of my bitterness is due to what I saw there. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #120

And the ruination and loss of the American middle class. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #119

No, we've just been treading water Recursion Jun 2015 #121

You are way off. The wealth has gone to the 1%. We have massive joblessness and those with rhett o rick Jun 2015 #133

How does that contradict what I said? Recursion Jun 2015 #140

Treading water means you are not getting any better or worse. The wealth inequality has grown rhett o rick Jun 2015 #143

US inequality has grown. Global inequality has shrunk Recursion Jun 2015 #145

I don't know how that's supposed to make us feel better in the USofA. rhett o rick Jun 2015 #146

And if our own legislators were not so corrupt, we would not permit China and India JDPriestly Jun 2015 #104

Yeah, it's the spread of corporate fascism throughout the world. ananda Jun 2015 #7

K&R Scuba Jun 2015 #11

you are too late to be concern about that Cali, Cryptoad Jun 2015 #18

The Loss Of Citizen Sovereignty Over The Political Process To The Corporations Is cantbeserious Jun 2015 #40

Agree. ananda Jun 2015 #63

Major K&R..... daleanime Jun 2015 #41

An excellent summation. K & R snagglepuss Jun 2015 #42

NO MORE f*%king give aways to the corporations, period. Hotler Jun 2015 #43

Corporations are merely empires for their uber wealthy major shareholder owners. Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #45

What job losses? We're told there'll be no job losses.... except that apparently we need Guy Whitey Corngood Jun 2015 #47

Nitpicking! valerief Jun 2015 #49

that might be the undoing of this trade pact bigtree Jun 2015 #50

I am against Costly Trade Deals? Free Trade? No such thing. grahamhgreen Jun 2015 #56

When ridiculous court judgments happen - there's a trade agreement behind it. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2015 #61

^ Wilms Jun 2015 #66

Sending jobs overseas, importing questionable food products, jacking up pharmaceutical prices, GoneFishin Jun 2015 #67

I have to wonder how the TPP is going to affect the price of prescription medication davidpdx Jun 2015 #82

It's also like that here in Japan Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #86

I know, the price of your Viagra might go up davidpdx Jun 2015 #87

Post removed Post removed Jun 2015 #95

That is my concern also. I am especially concerned about their power regarding smaller less powerful jwirr Jun 2015 #112

And yet the job losses will be catastrophic to those affected. Orsino Jun 2015 #150

In essence they want to Nite Owl Jun 2015 #152