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Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)

209. You do realize your last statement is blatantly false, also, just a couple of observations...

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:49 PM

Jun 2015

First off, Marriage wasn't a sacrament until about the 12th century A.D.

(source)

Before then, marriages were tolerated, but not as important as celibacy and keeping the faith for when Jesus returns.

Civil marriages predate any Christian church, and they have existed parallel to the Church for a long time. Different countries handle it differently, as did different cultures. As far as Martin Luther King Jr. here's an interview with one of his fellow civil rights leaders, who was an openly gay man at the time:

http://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/people/2015/01/19/bayard-rustin-martin-luther-king-s-views-gay-people

I think MLK Jr. would have evolved as his wife did, as an advocate for LGBT rights and even same-sex marriage. That's not rewriting history, that's informed speculation based on the facts.

Also, I frankly don't care about speculations in the Bible, its irrelevant in a secular society. Some churches will be pro-same sex marriage, some will be anti-same sex marriage based on their interpretations of the text. Its so contradictory that neither would have an upper hand on what is actually true.

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Does being adamantly opposed to same-sex marriage make someone a bigot? [View all] skepticscott Jun 2015 OP

Of course it does madokie Jun 2015 #1

I would almost agree with you, except that I plead for a little understanding Betty Karlson Jun 2015 #44

I stand by what I said madokie Jun 2015 #54

He was both a bigot and a victim of an intolerant upbringing. MADem Jun 2015 #87

You're viewing this as a needlessly black-white issue Boomer Jun 2015 #128

In other words a sinner Betty Karlson Jun 2015 #142

In YOUR words, not mine Boomer Jun 2015 #152

I should explain that in Christian-Reformed Church circles, Betty Karlson Jun 2015 #153

I get wgat youre saying, but.... Adrahil Jun 2015 #182

Does opposition to interracial marriage make someone a bigot? Yes. n/t pampango Jun 2015 #2

Exactly. n/t OneGrassRoot Jun 2015 #26

Yes, and a homophobe Rob H. Jun 2015 #3

Yes Sparhawk60 Jun 2015 #4

In 2006 a DU poll on same sex marriage was 70% for and 30% against Recursion Jun 2015 #5

Absolutely. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #6

Yep! Those Are Smokescreens ProfessorGAC Jun 2015 #9

Agree times a million. randys1 Jun 2015 #252

Yep. Wrapping bigotry in religion doesn't make it any less bigotry. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #17

I wouldn't have even bothered with the word 'adamantly'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #7

You have it backwards jberryhill Jun 2015 #8

In this case, I meant "make" skepticscott Jun 2015 #10

no that doesn't work. The set of bigots contains and is larger than the set of Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #13

I hope so. 'Cause otherwise they're just stupid. Iggo Jun 2015 #11

absolutely. Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #12

Probably not here, cheapdate Jun 2015 #127

yes! nt m-lekktor Jun 2015 #14

I used to think that a federal civil union contract Revanchist Jun 2015 #15

The problem with that approach nichomachus Jun 2015 #32

You don't have to rewrite all 1300 bills. One bill Exilednight Jun 2015 #193

That's essentially what France did to create "gay marriage" many years ago. jeff47 Jun 2015 #37

While the practical rights and privileges skepticscott Jun 2015 #52

Sorry, but safeinOhio Jun 2015 #16

No need to be sorry. Jester Messiah Jun 2015 #20

what marriage even means anymore in today's world. AlbertCat Jun 2015 #38

True, it is a pre-written form contract treestar Jun 2015 #64

Meaning what, exactly? skepticscott Jun 2015 #21

Me, I wouldn't get on an airplane safeinOhio Jun 2015 #23

A poor analogy skepticscott Jun 2015 #27

I did apologize first. safeinOhio Jun 2015 #30

As I said, poor analogy skepticscott Jun 2015 #34

No, I safeinOhio Jun 2015 #43

You are against having a legal agreement to avoid financial & property entanglements? uppityperson Jun 2015 #68

All of those items can be safeinOhio Jun 2015 #75

I read the marriage statute before signing it. In that state, it was who owned what, who got what if uppityperson Jun 2015 #81

Post hoc ergo prompter hoc. The comforting ally of the myopic and dogmatic. LanternWaste Jun 2015 #86

Also would apply to safeinOhio Jun 2015 #93

No, it wouldn't skepticscott Jun 2015 #125

Yes it would safeinOhio Jun 2015 #126

Many people actually survive a divorce ... JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2015 #49

In this society treestar Jun 2015 #63

I remember a lady comedian once say safeinOhio Jun 2015 #77

lol treestar Jun 2015 #79

You are against couples having legal protections in their partnership? That is odd, to me. uppityperson Jun 2015 #66

Note, one can be against all military and still think that the military if it must exist should Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #85

Such a simple question you asked and yet you never received an answer. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #137

False equivalent. I can make an argument as Exilednight Jun 2015 #194

Marriage is a civil contract, not a religious ceremony, the religious part is an optional add on Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #220

This is where you lose me. If marriage is nothing more than Exilednight Jun 2015 #225

Centuries of case law with established court precedence. n/t ieoeja Jun 2015 #230

In most cases, I'd say 'yes'. Captain Stern Jun 2015 #18

I call foul on this argument me b zola Jun 2015 #211

Where's the foul? Captain Stern Jun 2015 #259

Vice-versa I think, but close enough. Jester Messiah Jun 2015 #19

Yes. Arkana Jun 2015 #22

People seem to forget that President Obama was opposed to same goldent Jun 2015 #24

Well, he couldn't have been that adamantly opposed skepticscott Jun 2015 #29

he was promoting a bigoted position at that point in time. Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #33

Well, a few years ago, when President Obama opposed it, it was a "social policy" position. goldent Jun 2015 #113

it was always bigoted, as were the laws prohibiting interracial marriage. Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #119

They also forget that he was for same sex marriage before he was against it LostOne4Ever Jun 2015 #45

Politicians stick their finger in the wind. News at 11! LeftyMom Jun 2015 #91

that was for political reasons but it was still a bigoted position JI7 Jun 2015 #114

So does that mean he was a "public bigot" but privately not a bigot? goldent Jun 2015 #116

It's not complicated... MellowDem Jun 2015 #205

He, like most politicians, adopted a bigoted position for political reasons Recursion Jun 2015 #129

I kind of wonder too what his real feelings were then and are now. goldent Jun 2015 #148

Well of course you don't. Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #149

Conservative and libertarian approaches to same-sex marriage are bigoted. DemocraticWing Jun 2015 #25

Probably, but LWolf Jun 2015 #28

it also makes them a parasite living off of societies ignorance olddots Jun 2015 #31

It's hard to use that word toward people you love. qwlauren35 Jun 2015 #35

So if a couple has a child skepticscott Jun 2015 #36

Nope. qwlauren35 Jun 2015 #40

My mother doesn't feel hatred. My sister doesn't feel hatred. AlbertCat Jun 2015 #39

Call it what you will. qwlauren35 Jun 2015 #41

there is no disgust, there is no "sin". AlbertCat Jun 2015 #50

I don't think it's rational. qwlauren35 Jun 2015 #60

Having read many of your posts about other people's bigoty I think you are either far too generous Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #89

Unforgiving of others. qwlauren35 Jun 2015 #98

something really ugly about "bigot" AlbertCat Jun 2015 #260

My mother actually once told me she would have had a problem if I dated a black girl... Humanist_Activist Jun 2015 #76

You're ignorant, at the very least. LeftyMom Jun 2015 #97

I lived in a single parent home. qwlauren35 Jun 2015 #105

So you're okay with single parents as long as they're not women? LeftyMom Jun 2015 #107

wow. just wow olddots Jun 2015 #110

+1. Wow! nt riderinthestorm Jun 2015 #120

People calling it bigotry does not make it so. goldent Jun 2015 #115

I used to work with an awesome gay guy who thought that gays should not be allowed to marry. prayin4rain Jun 2015 #42

And did he ever give you skepticscott Jun 2015 #47

I remember it clearly. ..but, no, I didn't get any substantive answer. prayin4rain Jun 2015 #48

I have met older gay people who felt the same way, but not because they were religious. yardwork Jun 2015 #178

Of course it does LostOne4Ever Jun 2015 #46

I voted no, because valerief Jun 2015 #51

But if someone believes skepticscott Jun 2015 #53

That wasn't the question, but by definition that person is a bigot. S/he'd be intolerant. nt valerief Jun 2015 #55

Just to clarify, it was not a trick question skepticscott Jun 2015 #65

Absolutely positively yes! William769 Jun 2015 #56

It's interesting, if not a bit telling, to watch people parse it. Behind the Aegis Jun 2015 #58

it's also very telling on looking at the poll. William769 Jun 2015 #61

Well uppityperson Jun 2015 #69

Thanks for the back up. William769 Jun 2015 #70

That was a long time coming. Behind the Aegis Jun 2015 #130

Excellent news! Spazito Jun 2015 #171

Bi.got (n.) KamaAina Jun 2015 #57

I strongly dislike... harrose Jun 2015 #108

Not sure if repukes qualify as a "group". KamaAina Jun 2015 #109

Repukes are most certainly a group... harrose Jun 2015 #121

I think there is a difference in disliking people for choosing/holding certain beliefs Arugula Latte Jun 2015 #111

Perhaps.... harrose Jun 2015 #122

Interesting point. DeadLetterOffice Jun 2015 #257

Denying rights that you possess to others is bigotry me b zola Jun 2015 #59

+1000 beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #132

YUP! Behind the Aegis Jun 2015 #134

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2015 #234

I'm sorry, but this is just a silly argument me b zola Jun 2015 #238

Believing a person or a group of people does not have the same rights... Matrosov Jun 2015 #62

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2015 #229

... William769 Jun 2015 #67

Theoretically No, Practically Yes One_Life_To_Give Jun 2015 #71

This message was self-deleted by its author William769 Jun 2015 #73

personally, I prefer to evaluate actions/behavior/beliefs rather than label individuals fishwax Jun 2015 #72

Well, you're right skepticscott Jun 2015 #78

I'm down with that fishwax Jun 2015 #80

Yet, oddly, the Hillary-backers don't Damansarajaya Jun 2015 #74

the straight people timeline for Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #92

Conclusion--"Hillary is less evil than a lot of Dems." Damansarajaya Jun 2015 #150

I'm not here to endorse Hillary, I support Bernie, what I am talking about is the hypocrisy of Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #219

I remem ber hearing his speech irisblue Jun 2015 #207

Yes, this gay Hillary-backer doesn't have a problem with that. Next question. yardwork Jun 2015 #179

Like many things in this life melm00se Jun 2015 #82

In the US, all law is secular, there is not a state religion. Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #95

bingo melm00se Jun 2015 #118

Well, let's clarify skepticscott Jun 2015 #124

I think you have to find out the motivation. n/t Yo_Mama Jun 2015 #83

Motivation to deny a civil right? William769 Jun 2015 #84

Two gay guys I have known have commented in my presence that they don't think it's right. Yo_Mama Jun 2015 #174

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2015 #231

No more and no less than opposition to inter-racial marriages illustrates one as a bigot. LanternWaste Jun 2015 #88

It depends on how they feel towards gay people. You can have people who hate gays but believe they craigmatic Jun 2015 #90

Bigotry motivated by religion is one of the most common brands of bigotry, closely followed by Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #94

you put this better then I could today. irisblue Jun 2015 #208

I think if they feel that that gay people shouldn't be married for religion or cultural beliefs then Juicy_Bellows Jun 2015 #96

I don't know I'm just saying that people like that probably exist. craigmatic Jun 2015 #101

Yes, I think we agree - and I would hope those folks come around. nt. Juicy_Bellows Jun 2015 #106

What specifically leads you to believe that religious-motivations for bigotry are not in fact, bigot LanternWaste Jun 2015 #99

Because people are crazy and I've seen some crazy shit. I've seen some white people who would craigmatic Jun 2015 #102

Muslims overwhelmingly say that homosexual behavior is morally wrong oberliner Jun 2015 #100

Yep. And it's also a reason to not put religious beliefs in some protective bubble Arugula Latte Jun 2015 #112

oh my gosh, you mean to say religion promotes biogtry? Skittles Jun 2015 #140

At one time, a great deal of the world was engaged in the slave trade, Muslims were at it before Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #221

Do morals evolve? oberliner Jun 2015 #222

You were asked a question you did not answer. You should answer it. Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #224

"If Muslims bigoted views are subject to change, then they should change them without delay." oberliner Jun 2015 #227

If your religion allows you to commit what you later see are atrocities, simply halting that Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #233

According to the definition of the word bigot, yes. guillaumeb Jun 2015 #103

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2015 #232

Only if they do not accept opposition as permissible whatthehey Jun 2015 #246

Yes. Because this is about equal status Skidmore Jun 2015 #104

Of course it does EvolveOrConvolve Jun 2015 #117

Kick! beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #123

Why do you care about same sex marriages? akbacchus_BC Jun 2015 #131

Don't you care about lgbt rights? beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #133

This message was self-deleted by its author Behind the Aegis Jun 2015 #135

I am seeing lots of that lately. Behind the Aegis Jun 2015 #136

Unfortunately so am I. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #139

Gee, I don't know, why the hell should anybody care skepticscott Jun 2015 #146

This is such a messed up post LostOne4Ever Jun 2015 #156

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2015 #235

YES YES YES Skittles Jun 2015 #138

Bigotry is still bigotry even if someone thinks they have some religious justification for it. Warren DeMontague Jun 2015 #141

No, of course not. Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #143

So people who are opposed to interracial marriage aren't bigots either? beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #144

I'm sure that some are. Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #155

Apparently, you're equally sure that some aren't skepticscott Jun 2015 #158

Lgbt rights are human rights, if you are opposed to marriage equality you are a bigot. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #175

How do you justify your complete distortion of what I said? Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #217

Marriage is included in the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 16 Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #223

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2015 #236

Indeed, you are correct. Thank you. Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #248

I see Bluenorthwest already corrected your error. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #249

Your continued misrepresentation of what others say is noted. Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #250

You're an apologist for religious bigotry, Tack, your posts here prove it. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #254

He's not still trying to marry his bike is he? truebrit71 Jun 2015 #255

Anything is possible, he did compare lgbt people to hamsters and dogs. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #256

tojo'Qa', yIntagh t'ooho'mIrah Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #258

Apparently you need clarification too skepticscott Jun 2015 #147

I'm curious if you're opposed to gay marriage EvolveOrConvolve Jun 2015 #160

Well he did compare it to marrying his dog, hamster, brother, mother and bicycle: beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #176

He is not the only poster who is ambivalent when it comes to LGBT rights. n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2015 #184

I wouldn't even call it skepticscott Jun 2015 #187

I think it is more about your confusion than my ambivalence Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #215

"Marriage is a social convention" Rob H. Jun 2015 #168

I disagree. It is not that simple Starboard Tack Jun 2015 #216

'If You Oppose Equal Marriage, You Are a Bigot' beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #145

Of course it does- just as being opposed to interracial marriage does NT Lee-Lee Jun 2015 #151

IMO, this whole thing is about nomenclature, which is why gov't should get out of the marriage biz Algernon Moncrieff Jun 2015 #154

No, the "whole thing" is about equal treatment, regardless of what you call the arrangement skepticscott Jun 2015 #157

Which is exactly why legal unions should be differentiated from spiritual marriage Algernon Moncrieff Jun 2015 #159

Sorry, but you can't seriously be arguing skepticscott Jun 2015 #164

I absolutely argue that point. Algernon Moncrieff Jun 2015 #167

why all the ho-hum about marriage at all? PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #161

Because important rights are guaranteed to couples who are legally married skepticscott Jun 2015 #163

I know. PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #166

The Bible is homophobic XemaSab Jun 2015 #162

No, but here is why .... Exilednight Jun 2015 #165

Fine, but you're not arguing for opposition to legal same-sex marriage skepticscott Jun 2015 #169

I did answer your question, I just explained my reasoning. In a perfect Exilednight Jun 2015 #192

No, as explained, you answered a different question skepticscott Jun 2015 #195

equal treatment and equal rights are two different things. Exilednight Jun 2015 #197

When I said "equal treatment", I was referring to skepticscott Jun 2015 #200

Just to clarify...again skepticscott Jun 2015 #170

Absolutely yes n/t Spazito Jun 2015 #172

Yes ellisonz Jun 2015 #173

I don't think God is a bigot Omnith Jun 2015 #177

as far as I can think yes. Kali Jun 2015 #180

The Bible is Very Clear on The Subject On the Road Jun 2015 #181

Are you saying you oppose same-sex marriage? Humanist_Activist Jun 2015 #183

As Far as the Poll Question: On the Road Jun 2015 #206

You do realize your last statement is blatantly false, also, just a couple of observations... Humanist_Activist Jun 2015 #209

Civil Marriage Clearly Came Before Christian Marriage On the Road Jun 2015 #212

Marriages in the United States aren't a joint civil/religious institution... Humanist_Activist Jun 2015 #214

Coretta Scott King does not share your view at all. She said this way back in 2000, early and strong Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #228

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2015 #237

So what are your thoughts on the subject? EvolveOrConvolve Jun 2015 #185

Do you have an answer to the question skepticscott Jun 2015 #186

Which bible, the old testament or the new? B Calm Jun 2015 #188

Rewrite history in what way? gollygee Jun 2015 #190

Why should people who don't follow the Bible be forced to conform to it's dictates? LostOne4Ever Jun 2015 #210

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2015 #239

You really don't think I wont alert on that comment? LostOne4Ever Jun 2015 #240

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2015 #241

That's not the truth, its hateful bigotry. Now for MIRT to remove you back to the garbage heap nt LostOne4Ever Jun 2015 #243

MIRT cleaned up the spill. Behind the Aegis Jun 2015 #247

I have a belief to force on your homophobic ass: PeaceNikki Jun 2015 #242

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2015 #244

You know - homophobes PeaceNikki Jun 2015 #245

It didn't used to MannyGoldstein Jun 2015 #189

And yet you have suggested that the stridently and adamently anti gay Pope be given a role of Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #198

Sorry, there are no grounds for an honest discussion with you. MannyGoldstein Jun 2015 #199

Anything to avoid speaking honestly and factually, that's your game. Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #218

Post removed Post removed Jun 2015 #191

I'm fine, thank you skepticscott Jun 2015 #196

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service (re: post #191) Orrex Jun 2015 #201

Thanks for sharing skepticscott Jun 2015 #202

Yeah, I've seen quite a few examples of truly ugly anti-gay bigotry lately on DU Orrex Jun 2015 #203

Marriage is about household property rights. haele Jun 2015 #204

I think it depends hollowdweller Jun 2015 #213

Marriage is a civil right, not a religious one. Lex Jun 2015 #226

No question about it, cannot alter the truth it no matter how hard one try's AuntPatsy Jun 2015 #251

It does make one an asshole because what skin is it off anyone's hide Cleita Jun 2015 #253