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In reply to the discussion: Hillary Clinton Addressed TPP in Iowa Event [View all]leveymg
(36,418 posts)69. Here's a NYT article that lays it out based upon a Wikileaks copy of the January draft TPP
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/business/trans-pacific-partnership-seen-as-door-for-foreign-suits-against-us.html
WASHINGTON An ambitious 12-nation trade accord pushed by President Obama would allow foreign corporations to sue the United States government for actions that undermine their investment expectations and hurt their business, according to a classified document.
The Trans-Pacific Partnership a cornerstone of Mr. Obamas remaining economic agenda would grant broad powers to multinational companies operating in North America, South America and Asia. Under the accord, still under negotiation but nearing completion, companies and investors would be empowered to challenge regulations, rules, government actions and court rulings federal, state or local before tribunals organized under the World Bank or the United Nations.
(. . . )
The chapter in the draft of the trade deal, dated Jan. 20, 2015, and obtained by The New York Times in collaboration with the group WikiLeaks, is certain to kindle opposition from both the political left and the right. The sensitivity of the issue is reflected in the fact that the cover mandates that the chapter not be declassified until four years after the Trans-Pacific Partnership comes into force or trade negotiations end, should the agreement fail.
Conservatives are likely to be incensed that even local policy changes could send the government to a United Nations-sanctioned tribunal. On the left, Senator Elizabeth Warren, Democrat of Massachusetts, law professors and a host of liberal activists have expressed fears the provisions would infringe on United States sovereignty and impinge on government regulation involving businesses in banking, tobacco, pharmaceuticals and other sectors.
Members of Congress have been reviewing the secret document in secure reading rooms, but this is the first disclosure to the public since an early version leaked in 2012.
This is really troubling, said Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York, the Senates No. 3 Democrat. It seems to indicate that savvy, deep-pocketed foreign conglomerates could challenge a broad range of laws we pass at every level of government, such as made-in-America laws or anti-tobacco laws. I think people on both sides of the aisle will have trouble with this.
The United States Trade Representatives Office dismissed such concerns as overblown. Administration officials said opponents were using hypothetical cases to stoke irrational fear when an actual record exists that should soothe worries.
Such Investor-State Dispute Settlement accords exist already in more than 3,000 trade agreements across the globe. The United States is party to 51, including the North American Free Trade Agreement. Administration officials say they level the playing field for American companies doing business abroad, protect property from government seizure and ensure access to international justice.
But the limited use of trade tribunals, critics argue, is because companies in those countries do not have the size, legal budgets and market power to come after governments in the United States. The Trans-Pacific Partnership could change all that, they say. The agreement would expand that authority to investors in countries as wealthy as Japan and Australia, with sophisticated companies deeply invested in the United States.
U.S.T.R. will say the U.S. has never lost a case, but youre going to see a lot more challenges in the future, said Senator Sherrod Brown, Democrat of Ohio. Theres a huge pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for these companies.
One 1999 case gives ammunition to both sides of the debate. Back then, California banned the chemical MTBE from the states gasoline, citing the damage it was doing to its water supply. The Canadian company Methanex Corporation sued for $970 million under Nafta, claiming damages on future profits. The case stretched to 2005, when the tribunal finally dismissed all claims.
To supporters of the TPP, the Methanex case was proof that regulation for the public good would win out. For opponents, it showed what could happen when far larger companies from countries like Japan have access to the same extrajudicial tribunals.
But as long as a government treats foreign and domestic companies in the same way, defenders say, it should not run afoul of the trade provisions. A government that conducts itself in an unbiased and nondiscriminatory fashion has nothing to worry about, said Scott Miller, an international business expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, who has studied past cases. Thats the record.
Similar chapters exist in the North American Free Trade Agreement and the Central American Free Trade Agreement, but their use has been limited against the United States. Over 25 years, according to the trade representatives office, the United States has faced only 17 investor-state cases, 13 of which went before tribunals. The United States has lost none.
Civil courts in the United States are already open to action by foreign investors and companies. Since 1993, while the federal government was defending itself against those 17 cases brought through extrajudicial trade tribunals, it was sued 700,000 times in domestic courts.
In all, according to Public Citizens Global Trade Watch, about 9,000 foreign-owned firms operating in the United States would be empowered to bring cases against governments here. Those are as diverse as timber and mining companies in Australia and investment conglomerates from China whose subsidiaries in Trans-Pacific Partnership countries like Vietnam and New Zealand also have ventures in the United States.
More than 18,000 companies based in the United States would gain new powers to go after the other 11 countries in the accord.
A similar accord under negotiation with Europe has already provoked an outcry there.
( . . . )
Under the terms of the Pacific trade chapter, foreign investors could demand cash compensation if member nations expropriate or nationalize a covered investment either directly or indirectly. Opponents fear indirect expropriation will be interpreted broadly, especially by deep-pocketed multinational companies opposing regulatory or legal changes that diminish the value of their investments.
Included in the definition of indirect expropriation is government action that interferes with distinct, reasonable investment-backed expectations, according to the leaked document.
The cost can be high. In 2012, one such tribunal, under the auspices of the World Banks International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes, ordered Ecuador to pay Occidental Petroleum a record $2.3 billion for expropriating oil drilling rights.
Under the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a member nation would be forbidden from favoring goods produced in its territory.
Critics say the texts definition of an investment is so broad that it could open enormous avenues of legal challenge. An investment includes every asset that an investor owns or controls, directly or indirectly, that has the characteristic of an investment, including regulatory permits; intellectual property rights; financial instruments such as stocks and derivatives; construction, management, production, concession, revenue-sharing and other similar contracts; and licenses, authorizations, permits and similar rights conferred pursuant to domestic law.
This is not about expropriation; its about regulatory changes, said Lori Wallach, director of Global Trade Watch and a fierce opponent of the Pacific accord. You now have specialized law firms being set up. You go to them, tell them what country youre in, what regulation you want to go after, and they say Well do it on contingency.
In 2013, Eli Lilly took advantage of a similar provision under Nafta to sue Canada for $500 million, accusing Ottawa of violating its obligations to foreign investors by allowing its courts to invalidate patents for two of its drugs.
All of those disputes would be adjudicated under rules set by either the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes or the United Nations Commission on International Trade Law.
( . . .)
There are other mitigating provisions, but many have catches. For instance, one article states that nothing in this chapter should prevent a member country from regulating investment activity for environmental, health or other regulatory objectives. But that safety valve says such regulation must be consistent with the other strictures of the chapter, a provision even administration officials said rendered the clause more political than legal.
One of the chapters annexes states that regulatory actions meant to protect legitimate public welfare objectives, such as public health, safety and the environment do not constitute indirect expropriation, except in rare circumstances. That final exception could open such regulations to legal second-guessing, critics say.
WASHINGTON An ambitious 12-nation trade accord pushed by President Obama would allow foreign corporations to sue the United States government for actions that undermine their investment expectations and hurt their business, according to a classified document.
The Trans-Pacific Partnership a cornerstone of Mr. Obamas remaining economic agenda would grant broad powers to multinational companies operating in North America, South America and Asia. Under the accord, still under negotiation but nearing completion, companies and investors would be empowered to challenge regulations, rules, government actions and court rulings federal, state or local before tribunals organized under the World Bank or the United Nations.
(. . . )
The chapter in the draft of the trade deal, dated Jan. 20, 2015, and obtained by The New York Times in collaboration with the group WikiLeaks, is certain to kindle opposition from both the political left and the right. The sensitivity of the issue is reflected in the fact that the cover mandates that the chapter not be declassified until four years after the Trans-Pacific Partnership comes into force or trade negotiations end, should the agreement fail.
Conservatives are likely to be incensed that even local policy changes could send the government to a United Nations-sanctioned tribunal. On the left, Senator Elizabeth Warren, Democrat of Massachusetts, law professors and a host of liberal activists have expressed fears the provisions would infringe on United States sovereignty and impinge on government regulation involving businesses in banking, tobacco, pharmaceuticals and other sectors.
Members of Congress have been reviewing the secret document in secure reading rooms, but this is the first disclosure to the public since an early version leaked in 2012.
This is really troubling, said Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York, the Senates No. 3 Democrat. It seems to indicate that savvy, deep-pocketed foreign conglomerates could challenge a broad range of laws we pass at every level of government, such as made-in-America laws or anti-tobacco laws. I think people on both sides of the aisle will have trouble with this.
The United States Trade Representatives Office dismissed such concerns as overblown. Administration officials said opponents were using hypothetical cases to stoke irrational fear when an actual record exists that should soothe worries.
Such Investor-State Dispute Settlement accords exist already in more than 3,000 trade agreements across the globe. The United States is party to 51, including the North American Free Trade Agreement. Administration officials say they level the playing field for American companies doing business abroad, protect property from government seizure and ensure access to international justice.
But the limited use of trade tribunals, critics argue, is because companies in those countries do not have the size, legal budgets and market power to come after governments in the United States. The Trans-Pacific Partnership could change all that, they say. The agreement would expand that authority to investors in countries as wealthy as Japan and Australia, with sophisticated companies deeply invested in the United States.
U.S.T.R. will say the U.S. has never lost a case, but youre going to see a lot more challenges in the future, said Senator Sherrod Brown, Democrat of Ohio. Theres a huge pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for these companies.
One 1999 case gives ammunition to both sides of the debate. Back then, California banned the chemical MTBE from the states gasoline, citing the damage it was doing to its water supply. The Canadian company Methanex Corporation sued for $970 million under Nafta, claiming damages on future profits. The case stretched to 2005, when the tribunal finally dismissed all claims.
To supporters of the TPP, the Methanex case was proof that regulation for the public good would win out. For opponents, it showed what could happen when far larger companies from countries like Japan have access to the same extrajudicial tribunals.
But as long as a government treats foreign and domestic companies in the same way, defenders say, it should not run afoul of the trade provisions. A government that conducts itself in an unbiased and nondiscriminatory fashion has nothing to worry about, said Scott Miller, an international business expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, who has studied past cases. Thats the record.
Similar chapters exist in the North American Free Trade Agreement and the Central American Free Trade Agreement, but their use has been limited against the United States. Over 25 years, according to the trade representatives office, the United States has faced only 17 investor-state cases, 13 of which went before tribunals. The United States has lost none.
Civil courts in the United States are already open to action by foreign investors and companies. Since 1993, while the federal government was defending itself against those 17 cases brought through extrajudicial trade tribunals, it was sued 700,000 times in domestic courts.
In all, according to Public Citizens Global Trade Watch, about 9,000 foreign-owned firms operating in the United States would be empowered to bring cases against governments here. Those are as diverse as timber and mining companies in Australia and investment conglomerates from China whose subsidiaries in Trans-Pacific Partnership countries like Vietnam and New Zealand also have ventures in the United States.
More than 18,000 companies based in the United States would gain new powers to go after the other 11 countries in the accord.
A similar accord under negotiation with Europe has already provoked an outcry there.
( . . . )
Under the terms of the Pacific trade chapter, foreign investors could demand cash compensation if member nations expropriate or nationalize a covered investment either directly or indirectly. Opponents fear indirect expropriation will be interpreted broadly, especially by deep-pocketed multinational companies opposing regulatory or legal changes that diminish the value of their investments.
Included in the definition of indirect expropriation is government action that interferes with distinct, reasonable investment-backed expectations, according to the leaked document.
The cost can be high. In 2012, one such tribunal, under the auspices of the World Banks International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes, ordered Ecuador to pay Occidental Petroleum a record $2.3 billion for expropriating oil drilling rights.
Under the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a member nation would be forbidden from favoring goods produced in its territory.
Critics say the texts definition of an investment is so broad that it could open enormous avenues of legal challenge. An investment includes every asset that an investor owns or controls, directly or indirectly, that has the characteristic of an investment, including regulatory permits; intellectual property rights; financial instruments such as stocks and derivatives; construction, management, production, concession, revenue-sharing and other similar contracts; and licenses, authorizations, permits and similar rights conferred pursuant to domestic law.
This is not about expropriation; its about regulatory changes, said Lori Wallach, director of Global Trade Watch and a fierce opponent of the Pacific accord. You now have specialized law firms being set up. You go to them, tell them what country youre in, what regulation you want to go after, and they say Well do it on contingency.
In 2013, Eli Lilly took advantage of a similar provision under Nafta to sue Canada for $500 million, accusing Ottawa of violating its obligations to foreign investors by allowing its courts to invalidate patents for two of its drugs.
All of those disputes would be adjudicated under rules set by either the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes or the United Nations Commission on International Trade Law.
( . . .)
There are other mitigating provisions, but many have catches. For instance, one article states that nothing in this chapter should prevent a member country from regulating investment activity for environmental, health or other regulatory objectives. But that safety valve says such regulation must be consistent with the other strictures of the chapter, a provision even administration officials said rendered the clause more political than legal.
One of the chapters annexes states that regulatory actions meant to protect legitimate public welfare objectives, such as public health, safety and the environment do not constitute indirect expropriation, except in rare circumstances. That final exception could open such regulations to legal second-guessing, critics say.
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So, she didn't actually address any of the specific issues like ISDS, Fast Tracking, secrecy,
leveymg
Jun 2015
#1
I care enought to do my own reading on issues, and haven't tried to divert this thread.
leveymg
Jun 2015
#12
He needs a better site. It is neither searchable nor indexed - just a long line of Q&A which
leveymg
Jun 2015
#17
Classic revolving door. He's probably fishing for a spot at Treasury under the next Admin.
leveymg
Jun 2015
#79
Hey Janey, I want to hear your take on cali's take on Hines in post #71. Or did the
ChisolmTrailDem
Jun 2015
#88
I don't care what the banksters want and I sure as hell don't listen to them on the TPP
cali
Jun 2015
#83
Here is what Himes sent out to his constituents, of which I am one. When I wrote him
Jefferson23
Jun 2015
#57
He is my congressman, and he will not tell me what is inaccurate in the list of objections
Jefferson23
Jun 2015
#54
" Addressed it, mentioned it, brought it up" -- danced around it. But didn't take a stand
corkhead
Jun 2015
#55
Stop being so defensive. I wasn't criticizing your comment/transcription. nt
ChisolmTrailDem
Jun 2015
#91
There's Warren again, failing to aknowledge the ISDS has been in place for decades, and has not
Hoyt
Jun 2015
#34
You might need to update your defense in light of the US changing it's meat labeling laws
jeff47
Jun 2015
#44
Non State-to-State ISDS is new. What's new about this is that individual companies
leveymg
Jun 2015
#63
Been in some 2500 trade agreements since 1959. Check your beliefs., to ensure they
Hoyt
Jun 2015
#64
The existing ISDS goes through state-to-state mechanisms, as the US Trade Representative
leveymg
Jun 2015
#66
Non state-to-state ISDS is new. That's the difference with the TPP - the new form allows
leveymg
Jun 2015
#68
Here's a NYT article that lays it out based upon a Wikileaks copy of the January draft TPP
leveymg
Jun 2015
#69
So, I guess ISDS suits BY CORPORATIONS against the USA, Canada or Mexico in the 1990s under NAFTA
Hoyt
Jun 2015
#70
There is not a darn bit of difference. Go here and pick some cases www.italaw.com/
Hoyt
Jun 2015
#74
International law and treaties is all about lots of little differences. NAFTA is a treaty between
leveymg
Jun 2015
#76
The NAFTA Ch 11 cases are filed between the states with companies as "Investor of another party"
leveymg
Jun 2015
#75
Same thing in TPP, same rules, same way of selecting arbiters, etc. Not new in TPP.
Hoyt
Jun 2015
#78
Here's an example of how the current state-to-state system in NAFTA requires gov't
leveymg
Jun 2015
#85
I think it matters. Hillary is the presumptive nominee and TPA will be a great benefit
tritsofme
Jun 2015
#11
YEs it matters a great deal. This is a specific example of the kind of decisions
rurallib
Jun 2015
#13
It absolutely matters. She's running for President and would get to use this bill if
neverforget
Jun 2015
#16
It certainly doesn't matter to those that can overlook her selling the lies for IWar
rhett o rick
Jun 2015
#60
she speaks about it like she's detqached from the issues everyone else is discussing
bigtree
Jun 2015
#27
Understood. Mine was a general comment, directed at pretty much everyone.
cherokeeprogressive
Jun 2015
#24
You'd think with that history she'd actually take a position on it in her campaign.
jeff47
Jun 2015
#41
Here's how it seems to me: if I profess unflinching support for something both as a public official
cherokeeprogressive
Jun 2015
#50
So original basically she said nothing other than mentioning the TPP and some trade agreements
Autumn
Jun 2015
#32
So... She didn't really address it, she just name dropped while serving up platitudes.
Exilednight
Jun 2015
#39
A truthful title: Hillary mentions TPP in stump speech, but offers no stance.
Exilednight
Jun 2015
#47
When you leave so much to chance on how you're perceived, when less than candid
Jefferson23
Jun 2015
#56
Yesterday and this morning there has been lots of remarks about Hillary not talking about TPP, this
Thinkingabout
Jun 2015
#58
Every part of the Democratic Party coalition is against it except for big banks and corporations
Cheese Sandwich
Jun 2015
#73
If I were in Congress, I would only vote for a trade deal after a lot of social
JDPriestly
Jun 2015
#84