General Discussion

ellisonz

(27,776 posts)

17. Yeah there are people opposed to this...

Wed Jun 17, 2015, 11:48 AM

Jun 2015

There are also very smart people for it. I've seen enough on DU and enough in the press to not fully buy what either side is saying. Will the TPP cost some jobs? Yeah probably, but many of those jobs are going away anyways. Will the TPP advance the US interest in fair trade? Yeah probably, but it won't be a cure-all. I would need something further than a fact sheet from a think-tank with a dog in the fight and Michael Hiltzik who I respect very much but isn't exactly the international trade expert. Most of what's in that fact sheet is vague and only indirectly about this agreement. It makes a philosophical argument, not a direct argument against this agreement.

I get the fierce opposition to globalization broadly and to trade agreements more specifically on DU, but I consider the source. I respect the judgment of the President and the capabilities of his expert advisors and negotiators that this is in the national interest.

Sorry.

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There is a jaw dropping line in an article today- "President Barack Obama and his Republican allies" [View all] NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 OP

Only Nixon could go to China... Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #1

Boom. hifiguy Jun 2015 #53

And only Big Dog Clinton could undo the Great Society and New Deal salib Jun 2015 #68

and no one notices because - Democrats! LiberalElite Jun 2015 #98

The one where the TPP is a huge priority nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #2

Ah can ya feel it? Finally all the reaching across the isle has paid off. L0oniX Jun 2015 #9

You have it all wrong they don't hate his guts, they hate his skin. But they all love the TPP. n/t A Simple Game Jun 2015 #35

Doing some reading on the hyper partisanship nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #85

My jaw is still firmly in place. No amount of speculation "in an article" makes my jaw move, Fred Sanders Jun 2015 #3

"Speculation"? What are you talking about? Marr Jun 2015 #99

Some people have blinders. truebluegreen Jun 2015 #102

....x10 840high Jun 2015 #118

Obama has found Hillary's Warm Purple Space Fumesucker Jun 2015 #4

The republican base is not his "ally" in this or anything else. Only the Democratic base is. n/t pampango Jun 2015 #5

Whoa, wait: So Republicans are going to vote against him on this and Democrats LondonReign2 Jun 2015 #23

If politicians listened to their bases that might happen. That is not the world we live in. n/t pampango Jun 2015 #25

The politicians from by part of my state listened and they voted NO. Northern MN. jwirr Jun 2015 #33

As the Romans might ask, "post hoc ergo prompter hoc?" LanternWaste Jun 2015 #54

that is simply incorrect. by any definition congressional republicana cali Jun 2015 #39

I don't consider politicians to be the "base". If you do that is fine. pampango Jun 2015 #93

That seems like quite the tap dance truebluegreen Jun 2015 #103

Polls show that Democrats do support the president's trade agenda. pampango Jun 2015 #105

Link please. truebluegreen Jun 2015 #107

Here you go: pampango Jun 2015 #112

This poll is ridiculous. They never define any of the terms except to indicate Obama wants them. hedda_foil Jun 2015 #120

The Republican Party platform fully supports TPP and TPA Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #130

I know, right? When polls show that Democrats don't agree with us, either pampango Jun 2015 #138

Same world but with the veil a little lifted Man from Pickens Jun 2015 #6

With Democrats like that who fucking cares about the next SCJ. L0oniX Jun 2015 #8

Yea ...2 things noted... L0oniX Jun 2015 #7

I have never blamed him for what he could not get through because the Rs did everything in the jwirr Jun 2015 #37

He didn't need any Republican Senators for ACA yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #84

He squandered those precious first two years when he could have gotten things through. L0oniX Jun 2015 #96

And I agree with that but at the time I doubt that he understood the depth of the hatred that the jwirr Jun 2015 #117

Berb'd voter, I like that. n/t A Simple Game Jun 2015 #38

Also known as a rare creature called bipartisanship. yallerdawg Jun 2015 #10

Actually, it's called "corruption" brentspeak Jun 2015 #15

On this there is 'bipartisanship' all around. The tea party was happy to see TAA and TPA die. pampango Jun 2015 #19

A two for one deal, and Obama set the table for that one mrdmk Jun 2015 #132

I suspect the tea party will claim ownership of the demise of TAA, not Democrats. pampango Jun 2015 #140

Bipartisan screwing of the people is what's happening. lark Jun 2015 #29

Buypartisanship. Where corporate interests purchase access to and influence Ed Suspicious Jun 2015 #36

What planet are you living on ohnoyoudidnt Jun 2015 #40

+1, apologists are having a really tough time finding an angle on this one. /nt Marr Jun 2015 #100

what a laugh. where is the bipartisanship in things that we on the left want? NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 #56

I'll let our Democratic president explain: yallerdawg Jun 2015 #60

and you trust this why, esp. when Reich and Krugman, along with Warren and others, have a different NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 #61

Because all the accusations and fears... yallerdawg Jun 2015 #65

TPP is NOT a trade deal. It is an investment/outsourcing/corporate power grab deal. Elwood P Dowd Jun 2015 #69

Not a little over the top? yallerdawg Jun 2015 #71

Why don't you check who has been running the USTR the past few years. Elwood P Dowd Jun 2015 #75

Froman, this guy. yallerdawg Jun 2015 #92

That is soooo funny. Elwood P Dowd Jun 2015 #113

And there is this about Citigroup sending it's executives to work in govt agencies to grease the Elwood P Dowd Jun 2015 #114

YESSSSSSSS! HE'S GOT IT EXACTLY RIGHT!!! cascadiance Jun 2015 #110

100,000 mutherfukers are expected to lose their jobs and he is pushing this? elehhhhna Jun 2015 #63

100,000 American workers? yallerdawg Jun 2015 #66

read the fastback bill, or Google retraining funds for 100k lost jobs, elehhhhna Jun 2015 #95

Unknowing smartass? yallerdawg Jun 2015 #97

I'm sorry, that was very rude. elehhhhna Jun 2015 #144

TPP has fuckall to do with trade--except for 5 of 29 articles eridani Jun 2015 #109

If you haven't been aware of this until now, you must have been asleep. also 'reply 16 in Doctor_J Jun 2015 #11

I've been well aware of it for a long long time. Just disappointing and deserving of being NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 #57

I wish Democrats would ally with our Democratic President on the issue of trade. tridim Jun 2015 #12

Rather than the current Republican adminstration? brentspeak Jun 2015 #16

I wish we had a President that acted like a Democrat LondonReign2 Jun 2015 #24

He was kidding about the moderate part. nt. hay rick Jun 2015 #91

Future R administration = multi-national corporation's stooges. jwirr Jun 2015 #44

Current R administration = multi-national corporation's stooges truebluegreen Jun 2015 #104

I wish the president would ally with the large majority of democrats on this fiasco Doctor_J Jun 2015 #45

So you believe it is "good" that the Democrats are letting the GOP handle trade? tridim Jun 2015 #49

That is what you want, to pass FastTrack so that the TeaPubliKlans will have control of the TheKentuckian Jun 2015 #133

and fuck unions, fuck every environmental org, fuck public intetest groups cali Jun 2015 #47

and fuck the 100k that they admit will lose their jobs... elehhhhna Jun 2015 #64

It will be more than that, this is the allotment for those who will qualify and jump the hoops. TheKentuckian Jun 2015 #134

The one where the Democratic Party abandons free trade by default. ellisonz Jun 2015 #13

More than a trade deal. That's why so much opposition. madfloridian Jun 2015 #14

Yeah there are people opposed to this... ellisonz Jun 2015 #17

There are very smart people opposed as well. madfloridian Jun 2015 #18

It's just not as simple as either side makes it out to be... ellisonz Jun 2015 #20

Others of us think Warren, Sanders and unions have good points. merrily Jun 2015 #28

Cheerio! ellisonz Jun 2015 #34

You want smart people: Paul Krugman, Robert Reich, Joseph Stiglitz and many more economists. jwirr Jun 2015 #48

Very smart people can still be fascists. [n/t] Maedhros Jun 2015 #82

Are you calling POTUS a fascist? ellisonz Jun 2015 #83

No, the "very smart people" you claim are in favor of the TPP. Maedhros Jun 2015 #86

Like POTUS and his administration? ellisonz Jun 2015 #89

Ceding powers traditionally held by government, such as settling lawsuits, Maedhros Jun 2015 #90

"Old" liberal Democrats like FDR, Truman and Kennedy pushed 'freer' trade and the institutions pampango Jun 2015 #22

Ahh Ye Olde Liberalism ellisonz Jun 2015 #42

LOL nice job turning the arguement upside down. Those old FDR trade agreements were about jwirr Jun 2015 #51

Great reply jwirr. The recent so called "free trade" deals are from another planet compared Elwood P Dowd Jun 2015 #70

"Those old FDR trade agreements" included the ITO which dealt with labor rights, investor protection pampango Jun 2015 #94

Notice that they did not include multi-national corporations profits and power. That is what I am jwirr Jun 2015 #116

The ITO did include "investment protection" in addition to labor standards, business regulation and pampango Jun 2015 #137

I have nothing against an insurance for investors as long as investors are also regulated. Otherwise jwirr Jun 2015 #141

Agreed. That is a good point. n/t pampango Jun 2015 #142

I think back to the bailout of AIG. They were going broke because they were the insurance company jwirr Jun 2015 #143

When they were pushing trade, the U.S. was the manufacturer to the world. hedda_foil Jun 2015 #127

So FDR and Truman were short-sighted and could not imagine a future world where Europe and Asia pampango Jun 2015 #139

Define "free trade". There really is no such thing. grahamhgreen Jun 2015 #88

Stockholm Syndrome? kentuck Jun 2015 #21

What do our international partners think of us? yallerdawg Jun 2015 #26

Waah, Jaime Daimon won't get all the goodies he wants. lark Jun 2015 #31

It's a totally bizzarro world today. lark Jun 2015 #27

Many folks recognized fredamae Jun 2015 #30

K & R Duppers Jun 2015 #50

Funny how Dems are always helpless against republicans even when they're the majority n/t arcane1 Jun 2015 #58

Exactly and factor in all fredamae Jun 2015 #62

I heard on NPR that the Republicans actually applauded him on TPP..... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2015 #32

I read David Brooks today... Cracklin Charlie Jun 2015 #41

Brooks Punx Jun 2015 #59

A ridiculous notion. Cracklin Charlie Jun 2015 #72

Payback time for Jami & the bank boys! Happened also when the 'public option' was deleted from... dmosh42 Jun 2015 #43

his new allies will do all they can to destroy his presidency first chance they get samsingh Jun 2015 #46

Except This time fredamae Jun 2015 #55

it seems that way samsingh Jun 2015 #74

Obama's trade deal is dividing our Democratic Party. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #52

I just hope that when the TAA is revived in the House sadoldgirl Jun 2015 #67

"The president says U.S. products must reach wider markets." Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #73

What US products, our war machines? What do we exactly manufacture? This is about lowering us to mother earth Jun 2015 #78

The US the worlds leader in weapons manufacture, it could stand a buzzcut! Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #79

Yes it could, sad that is how we "lead". nt mother earth Jun 2015 #80

We are living Orwellian times, my friend. K & R nt mother earth Jun 2015 #76

we sure are. NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 #81

It is called "third way world." n/t PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #77

How sad that Barak allies himself with those who despise him:( grahamhgreen Jun 2015 #87

We've got a whole troupe of apologists for this garbage, who, a few short years ago, Marr Jun 2015 #101

Yup. nt truebluegreen Jun 2015 #106

Is this really ... NanceGreggs Jun 2015 #108

That is one utterly idiotic post, Nance - so what do you think is not correct? NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 #111

What I think it utterly ridiculous ... NanceGreggs Jun 2015 #115

Yeah, he and the *Republicans* think it's good. His own party does not. Marr Jun 2015 #119

thank you. NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 #122

And running around ... NanceGreggs Jun 2015 #123

It's Sharks vs. Jets for *you*, I know. Others are interested in policy, and are sick of Marr Jun 2015 #124

Ah, yes. NanceGreggs Jun 2015 #126

correction grasswire Jun 2015 #128

.. Cha Jun 2015 #129

And some are confused Aerows Jun 2015 #121

Gosh, you really feel so! I feel very sorry for you akbacchus_BC Jun 2015 #125

The media printed something about Obama Cali_Democrat Jun 2015 #131

the OP is really jonesing for the TPP. i am thinking that is not good. pansypoo53219 Jun 2015 #135

NAFTA was such a success, why wouldn't we want to repeat the experience? the band leader Jun 2015 #136