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jwirr

(39,215 posts)

51. LOL nice job turning the arguement upside down. Those old FDR trade agreements were about

Wed Jun 17, 2015, 01:16 PM

Jun 2015

actual trade of products not multi-national corporations profit and power over both the workers and the buyer. The laws to allow the FDR type of trade are still in force as far as I know. They do not give the new people = corporations power over the real people.

As to tariffs they should actually be in any trade deal we make because they are actually a good tool to use when labor laws and environmental laws are not met in other countries. They also do not need a deal with other countries to put them in place (except NAFTA outlawed them). But we do not put them in our deals because they would impact the profits of the 1%.

As far as I can see the only enforcement we have in the TPP is the multi-national corporations themselves. Good luck with that. They left the US because of the same laws we expect them to enforce in the other countries. Not happening.

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There is a jaw dropping line in an article today- "President Barack Obama and his Republican allies" [View all] NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 OP

Only Nixon could go to China... Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #1

Boom. hifiguy Jun 2015 #53

And only Big Dog Clinton could undo the Great Society and New Deal salib Jun 2015 #68

and no one notices because - Democrats! LiberalElite Jun 2015 #98

The one where the TPP is a huge priority nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #2

Ah can ya feel it? Finally all the reaching across the isle has paid off. L0oniX Jun 2015 #9

You have it all wrong they don't hate his guts, they hate his skin. But they all love the TPP. n/t A Simple Game Jun 2015 #35

Doing some reading on the hyper partisanship nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #85

My jaw is still firmly in place. No amount of speculation "in an article" makes my jaw move, Fred Sanders Jun 2015 #3

"Speculation"? What are you talking about? Marr Jun 2015 #99

Some people have blinders. truebluegreen Jun 2015 #102

....x10 840high Jun 2015 #118

Obama has found Hillary's Warm Purple Space Fumesucker Jun 2015 #4

The republican base is not his "ally" in this or anything else. Only the Democratic base is. n/t pampango Jun 2015 #5

Whoa, wait: So Republicans are going to vote against him on this and Democrats LondonReign2 Jun 2015 #23

If politicians listened to their bases that might happen. That is not the world we live in. n/t pampango Jun 2015 #25

The politicians from by part of my state listened and they voted NO. Northern MN. jwirr Jun 2015 #33

As the Romans might ask, "post hoc ergo prompter hoc?" LanternWaste Jun 2015 #54

that is simply incorrect. by any definition congressional republicana cali Jun 2015 #39

I don't consider politicians to be the "base". If you do that is fine. pampango Jun 2015 #93

That seems like quite the tap dance truebluegreen Jun 2015 #103

Polls show that Democrats do support the president's trade agenda. pampango Jun 2015 #105

Link please. truebluegreen Jun 2015 #107

Here you go: pampango Jun 2015 #112

This poll is ridiculous. They never define any of the terms except to indicate Obama wants them. hedda_foil Jun 2015 #120

The Republican Party platform fully supports TPP and TPA Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #130

I know, right? When polls show that Democrats don't agree with us, either pampango Jun 2015 #138

Same world but with the veil a little lifted Man from Pickens Jun 2015 #6

With Democrats like that who fucking cares about the next SCJ. L0oniX Jun 2015 #8

Yea ...2 things noted... L0oniX Jun 2015 #7

I have never blamed him for what he could not get through because the Rs did everything in the jwirr Jun 2015 #37

He didn't need any Republican Senators for ACA yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #84

He squandered those precious first two years when he could have gotten things through. L0oniX Jun 2015 #96

And I agree with that but at the time I doubt that he understood the depth of the hatred that the jwirr Jun 2015 #117

Berb'd voter, I like that. n/t A Simple Game Jun 2015 #38

Also known as a rare creature called bipartisanship. yallerdawg Jun 2015 #10

Actually, it's called "corruption" brentspeak Jun 2015 #15

On this there is 'bipartisanship' all around. The tea party was happy to see TAA and TPA die. pampango Jun 2015 #19

A two for one deal, and Obama set the table for that one mrdmk Jun 2015 #132

I suspect the tea party will claim ownership of the demise of TAA, not Democrats. pampango Jun 2015 #140

Bipartisan screwing of the people is what's happening. lark Jun 2015 #29

Buypartisanship. Where corporate interests purchase access to and influence Ed Suspicious Jun 2015 #36

What planet are you living on ohnoyoudidnt Jun 2015 #40

+1, apologists are having a really tough time finding an angle on this one. /nt Marr Jun 2015 #100

what a laugh. where is the bipartisanship in things that we on the left want? NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 #56

I'll let our Democratic president explain: yallerdawg Jun 2015 #60

and you trust this why, esp. when Reich and Krugman, along with Warren and others, have a different NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 #61

Because all the accusations and fears... yallerdawg Jun 2015 #65

TPP is NOT a trade deal. It is an investment/outsourcing/corporate power grab deal. Elwood P Dowd Jun 2015 #69

Not a little over the top? yallerdawg Jun 2015 #71

Why don't you check who has been running the USTR the past few years. Elwood P Dowd Jun 2015 #75

Froman, this guy. yallerdawg Jun 2015 #92

That is soooo funny. Elwood P Dowd Jun 2015 #113

And there is this about Citigroup sending it's executives to work in govt agencies to grease the Elwood P Dowd Jun 2015 #114

YESSSSSSSS! HE'S GOT IT EXACTLY RIGHT!!! cascadiance Jun 2015 #110

100,000 mutherfukers are expected to lose their jobs and he is pushing this? elehhhhna Jun 2015 #63

100,000 American workers? yallerdawg Jun 2015 #66

read the fastback bill, or Google retraining funds for 100k lost jobs, elehhhhna Jun 2015 #95

Unknowing smartass? yallerdawg Jun 2015 #97

I'm sorry, that was very rude. elehhhhna Jun 2015 #144

TPP has fuckall to do with trade--except for 5 of 29 articles eridani Jun 2015 #109

If you haven't been aware of this until now, you must have been asleep. also 'reply 16 in Doctor_J Jun 2015 #11

I've been well aware of it for a long long time. Just disappointing and deserving of being NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 #57

I wish Democrats would ally with our Democratic President on the issue of trade. tridim Jun 2015 #12

Rather than the current Republican adminstration? brentspeak Jun 2015 #16

I wish we had a President that acted like a Democrat LondonReign2 Jun 2015 #24

He was kidding about the moderate part. nt. hay rick Jun 2015 #91

Future R administration = multi-national corporation's stooges. jwirr Jun 2015 #44

Current R administration = multi-national corporation's stooges truebluegreen Jun 2015 #104

I wish the president would ally with the large majority of democrats on this fiasco Doctor_J Jun 2015 #45

So you believe it is "good" that the Democrats are letting the GOP handle trade? tridim Jun 2015 #49

That is what you want, to pass FastTrack so that the TeaPubliKlans will have control of the TheKentuckian Jun 2015 #133

and fuck unions, fuck every environmental org, fuck public intetest groups cali Jun 2015 #47

and fuck the 100k that they admit will lose their jobs... elehhhhna Jun 2015 #64

It will be more than that, this is the allotment for those who will qualify and jump the hoops. TheKentuckian Jun 2015 #134

The one where the Democratic Party abandons free trade by default. ellisonz Jun 2015 #13

More than a trade deal. That's why so much opposition. madfloridian Jun 2015 #14

Yeah there are people opposed to this... ellisonz Jun 2015 #17

There are very smart people opposed as well. madfloridian Jun 2015 #18

It's just not as simple as either side makes it out to be... ellisonz Jun 2015 #20

Others of us think Warren, Sanders and unions have good points. merrily Jun 2015 #28

Cheerio! ellisonz Jun 2015 #34

You want smart people: Paul Krugman, Robert Reich, Joseph Stiglitz and many more economists. jwirr Jun 2015 #48

Very smart people can still be fascists. [n/t] Maedhros Jun 2015 #82

Are you calling POTUS a fascist? ellisonz Jun 2015 #83

No, the "very smart people" you claim are in favor of the TPP. Maedhros Jun 2015 #86

Like POTUS and his administration? ellisonz Jun 2015 #89

Ceding powers traditionally held by government, such as settling lawsuits, Maedhros Jun 2015 #90

"Old" liberal Democrats like FDR, Truman and Kennedy pushed 'freer' trade and the institutions pampango Jun 2015 #22

Ahh Ye Olde Liberalism ellisonz Jun 2015 #42

LOL nice job turning the arguement upside down. Those old FDR trade agreements were about jwirr Jun 2015 #51

Great reply jwirr. The recent so called "free trade" deals are from another planet compared Elwood P Dowd Jun 2015 #70

"Those old FDR trade agreements" included the ITO which dealt with labor rights, investor protection pampango Jun 2015 #94

Notice that they did not include multi-national corporations profits and power. That is what I am jwirr Jun 2015 #116

The ITO did include "investment protection" in addition to labor standards, business regulation and pampango Jun 2015 #137

I have nothing against an insurance for investors as long as investors are also regulated. Otherwise jwirr Jun 2015 #141

Agreed. That is a good point. n/t pampango Jun 2015 #142

I think back to the bailout of AIG. They were going broke because they were the insurance company jwirr Jun 2015 #143

When they were pushing trade, the U.S. was the manufacturer to the world. hedda_foil Jun 2015 #127

So FDR and Truman were short-sighted and could not imagine a future world where Europe and Asia pampango Jun 2015 #139

Define "free trade". There really is no such thing. grahamhgreen Jun 2015 #88

Stockholm Syndrome? kentuck Jun 2015 #21

What do our international partners think of us? yallerdawg Jun 2015 #26

Waah, Jaime Daimon won't get all the goodies he wants. lark Jun 2015 #31

It's a totally bizzarro world today. lark Jun 2015 #27

Many folks recognized fredamae Jun 2015 #30

K & R Duppers Jun 2015 #50

Funny how Dems are always helpless against republicans even when they're the majority n/t arcane1 Jun 2015 #58

Exactly and factor in all fredamae Jun 2015 #62

I heard on NPR that the Republicans actually applauded him on TPP..... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2015 #32

I read David Brooks today... Cracklin Charlie Jun 2015 #41

Brooks Punx Jun 2015 #59

A ridiculous notion. Cracklin Charlie Jun 2015 #72

Payback time for Jami & the bank boys! Happened also when the 'public option' was deleted from... dmosh42 Jun 2015 #43

his new allies will do all they can to destroy his presidency first chance they get samsingh Jun 2015 #46

Except This time fredamae Jun 2015 #55

it seems that way samsingh Jun 2015 #74

Obama's trade deal is dividing our Democratic Party. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #52

I just hope that when the TAA is revived in the House sadoldgirl Jun 2015 #67

"The president says U.S. products must reach wider markets." Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #73

What US products, our war machines? What do we exactly manufacture? This is about lowering us to mother earth Jun 2015 #78

The US the worlds leader in weapons manufacture, it could stand a buzzcut! Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #79

Yes it could, sad that is how we "lead". nt mother earth Jun 2015 #80

We are living Orwellian times, my friend. K & R nt mother earth Jun 2015 #76

we sure are. NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 #81

It is called "third way world." n/t PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #77

How sad that Barak allies himself with those who despise him:( grahamhgreen Jun 2015 #87

We've got a whole troupe of apologists for this garbage, who, a few short years ago, Marr Jun 2015 #101

Yup. nt truebluegreen Jun 2015 #106

Is this really ... NanceGreggs Jun 2015 #108

That is one utterly idiotic post, Nance - so what do you think is not correct? NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 #111

What I think it utterly ridiculous ... NanceGreggs Jun 2015 #115

Yeah, he and the *Republicans* think it's good. His own party does not. Marr Jun 2015 #119

thank you. NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 #122

And running around ... NanceGreggs Jun 2015 #123

It's Sharks vs. Jets for *you*, I know. Others are interested in policy, and are sick of Marr Jun 2015 #124

Ah, yes. NanceGreggs Jun 2015 #126

correction grasswire Jun 2015 #128

.. Cha Jun 2015 #129

And some are confused Aerows Jun 2015 #121

Gosh, you really feel so! I feel very sorry for you akbacchus_BC Jun 2015 #125

The media printed something about Obama Cali_Democrat Jun 2015 #131

the OP is really jonesing for the TPP. i am thinking that is not good. pansypoo53219 Jun 2015 #135

NAFTA was such a success, why wouldn't we want to repeat the experience? the band leader Jun 2015 #136