General Discussion

Igel

(37,550 posts)

38. The guy who went from Baltimore to NYC and killed the cops.

Thu Jun 18, 2015, 03:46 PM

Jun 2015

Mentally ill? Who first insisted he was mentally ill--and was that view accepted by the MSM?

Before that was accepted, what was the "diagnosis"?

I don't mean "what did DUers say they'd seen reported somewhere?" I mean what actually was the common description?

As with many other instances--the shooter at the army base in Texas, the guy in NC who ran into people near a student union, etc., etc.--I hear some voices on the margin making claims that are taken as "what everybody in the media" thinks, but when I look I see a lot of people saying, "We don't know. Yes, I have two people on my show, with one saying 'terrorist', but there's the other talking head saying 'mentally ill' and parents or friends saying how he's a nice guy." However, all some hear is the guy saying "terrorist" if that's what we want to hear, and at other times the guy saying "mentally ill."

It's like HRC's recent statement about the TPP. "I need more information." Some heard it as a defense and whole-hearted support; they have a dog in this fight. Some heard it as a condemnation; they also have a dog in this fight. That's what fast thinking gets you. (Great, now I'll have two groups of people seeking to tombstone me--one group insisting I just used coded language to call HRC the b-word, and another group insisting I just called Sanders a 'dog' and somehow that's anti-something-or-other.)

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Shooters of color are called �terrorists� and �thugs.� Why are white people called �mentally ill�? [View all] Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 OP

Yep!!! oldandhappy Jun 2015 #1

If I, a born and bred WASP, get seethingly angry over this, what must POC feel? Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #2

I think they have SO much experience with this, SO Many years of HORRIFIC treatment randys1 Jun 2015 #26

Impossible even to imagine. Most AA crime is black on black. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #28

I was thinking of this as I watched the oldandhappy Jun 2015 #115

Humbling and gratifying. We should all be grateful for their Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #122

I see him as a terrorist and I can't help but wonder if the diagnosis of MI is the modern world Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #3

Terrorism by definition is evil as it targets the innocent and helpless. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #8

Demonic possession? That explains it. immoderate Jun 2015 #12

I think people are quite capable of creating their own evil. To claim demonic possession would be to Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #17

I'm sure that in his mind, he was acting responsibly. immoderate Jun 2015 #30

Mental illness leads to abhorrent behavior but not all abhorrent behavior is mental illness. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #32

OTOH, I cannot point to a cold-blooded killer, and say, "There goes a normal person." immoderate Jun 2015 #35

I don't see how that is different from what I offered. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #39

You offered "evil" as an explanation for something, or other. immoderate Jun 2015 #41

Mental illness is a psychophysiological condition, a disease of the body. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #44

That's why mentally ill people, ... make rational decisions...?! immoderate Jun 2015 #84

this indivdual is a heaven05 Jun 2015 #46

If he is one of many, why did he distinguish himself by acting out? immoderate Jun 2015 #88

nerve enough heaven05 Jun 2015 #97

Doesn't your description refer to someone 'mentally different' than normal? immoderate Jun 2015 #98

all racist brains are "fucked up" heaven05 Jun 2015 #99

He carried a gun into a Bible study meeting in a church. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #47

Pretty much my point. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #49

This, to you, is a sign of sanity? immoderate Jun 2015 #92

So, someone knowing what they're doing is evil and choosing to do it anyway Dark n Stormy Knight Jun 2015 #96

People with a disease cannot be responsible for their actions. One might as well condemn Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #100

Your first three sentences are correct. The last one is not. Dark n Stormy Knight Jun 2015 #102

Then no murderer would be responsible for their actions. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #103

Ultimately true. Mental health is the final frontier. Dark n Stormy Knight Jun 2015 #104

'A sick society creates sick people.' Amen! Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #121

There was a great article on this subject in the print version of Psychology Today. Dark n Stormy Knight Jun 2015 #107

Thanks for posting this. Indeed, 'a challenge to traditional notions...' Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #123

Hopefully such thinking will lead to society realizing importance of Dark n Stormy Knight Jun 2015 #155

Let's call it what it was: a political act. Extreme RW ideology taken to its logical conclusion: leveymg Jun 2015 #76

Yes. Iggo Jun 2015 #4

people are already arguing this on other baords, hollysmom Jun 2015 #5

If his family are the racist hatemongers that we suspect, I hope they are at least Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #18

"Just another Adam Lanza." truebluegreen Jun 2015 #6

Yes, it's general knowledge that Lanza was frustrated at the invasion of Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #20

Saw that, too, did ya? Iggo Jun 2015 #57

I was trying to imagine how this would NOT be an act of terrorism. immoderate Jun 2015 #7

Yes, he allowed one of his potential victims to escape and told her to tell the world. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #9

Attribution bias - Media represents white culture, therefore white culture is their ingroup ck4829 Jun 2015 #10

Mental 'issues' = easy, expedient rationalization. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #11

Great post. nt raccoon Jun 2015 #64

It's white privilege for white people not to be responsible for the sins of one of their own AZ Progressive Jun 2015 #13

Using the 'mentally ill' label automatically individualizes the perp and exculpates his 'tribe'. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #15

The guy who went from Baltimore to NYC and killed the cops. Igel Jun 2015 #38

Totally off topic, but is your sig quotation from a French translation of E. A. Poe's 'The Raven'? Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #45

HELLO exactly. AT this point I no longer have any time for the racists, at all, which includes randys1 Jun 2015 #27

My question is can the father be prosecuted exboyfil Jun 2015 #14

In SC? Now, that WOULD be a first! Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #16

You claimed racism is mental illness. Have you changed your mind? HereSince1628 Jun 2015 #19

Sorry you're confused. Perhaps you failed to notice the "..." Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #23

A LOT of people are calling him a terrorist, actually. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2015 #21

And a lot are looking for any other excuse, too, at least Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #22

Some on the right are calling it anti-Christian terrorism, too. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2015 #31

There are several posts in GD which make a case for the main culprits being... Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #36

Any other explanation will do to avoid connecting the dots--RW indoctrination creates racists. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #66

And I agree with you. The immediate effect is to legitimize racism. Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #130

Depends Crabby Appleton Jun 2015 #24

Had forgotten about that rare and unusual incident. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #25

one out of a thousand heaven05 Jun 2015 #56

Actually about 50% are deemed mentally ill riderinthestorm Jun 2015 #59

You can't be a terrorist and also mentally ill? alarimer Jun 2015 #29

Well, in my very personal opinion, terrorists by definition display mentally aberrant behavior Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #33

Right. And considering there were many exposed to the same influences, who didn't commit mass murder immoderate Jun 2015 #34

Racism did this heaven05 Jun 2015 #42

That's it exactly. HappyMe Jun 2015 #138

A good question, but you have to admit this guy looks nuttier than a fruitcake. Vinca Jun 2015 #37

I'd rather say he looks like a spoiled, nasty brat with a big chip on his shoulder. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #85

Seen just that expression on a lot of twerps looking for a fight. Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #131

Curled lip and all! Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #133

two words, simple really heaven05 Jun 2015 #40

Yep!^^^ LovingA2andMI Jun 2015 #48

And, it's so insidious that it pervades most public discourse with impunity. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #83

I've been wondering the same thing. Thanks so much for posting this. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #43

You're welcome. It struck home with me, and I'm a WASP. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #51

Some people want to turn this into another gun debate.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2015 #50

NOBODY, except the occasional invited, token black intellectual. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #53

As we are now in a speculative state, I realize it's human nature to nirvana555 Jun 2015 #65

We will know all about them if they run to Hannity. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2015 #70

I have often wondered if some white people want to label racism a mental illness so they Solly Mack Jun 2015 #52

I DO see what you're saying and point well taken. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #60

Exactly. Thank you. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #63

... Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #68

Because the word thug implies that they are not redeemable. A mentally ill person can get help. Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #54

I think that is an aspect of it. White America can be redeemed Solly Mack Jun 2015 #58

The need has become exceedingly apparent for real treatments for society's abuser mindset. Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #71

We do indeed. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #73

And if people are saying "you're wrong" then listen and evaluate what they are saying Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #110

Studies show people actually become more entrenched in their beliefs Solly Mack Jun 2015 #111

Thanks for the link, Solly. Bookmarked for later.. Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #112

People exert a lot of effort to cling to their beliefs. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #113

For many, being wrong carries a huge emotional reaction, which clouds reason. Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #128

No clue. I really don't know. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #134

I think we need to keep talking about Caring, Loving, and Peace. And do not stop. Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #136

Good idea. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #137

^^^AMEN to this^^^! Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #118

In self-analysis it it easy to get stuck in the trap of being aware of ones own shortcomings Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #129

Until evidence otherwise this a thug in my book. gordianot Jun 2015 #55

I prefer domestic terrorist and racist killer. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #69

Correct gordianot Jun 2015 #77

That's what happens when those who have the privelege make the labels. n/t jtuck004 Jun 2015 #61

I think this needs to be bolded and repeated: raccoon Jun 2015 #62

There was SO much to highlight in that piece. You're right--this phrase deserves to be Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #75

Because a true racist has a mental issue. nt 7962 Jun 2015 #67

And, terrorists are mentally aberrant. That doesn't mean they cannot control their behavior. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #72

But how many mass murdering shooters were people of color? I can't remember even one! 1monster Jun 2015 #74

I think some 'highway snipers' were POC a few years ago, no? Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #78

The motives of the 'Beltway Snipers' Lilith Rising Jun 2015 #91

Thanks for taking the trouble to find it... Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #94

You're welcome :) Lilith Rising Jun 2015 #101

Aaron Alexis ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jun 2015 #108

Off the top of my head... linuxman Jun 2015 #125

Kicked and recommended a whole bunch! Enthusiast Jun 2015 #79

... Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #87

... Enthusiast Jun 2015 #89

The premise of your subject line is patently false George II Jun 2015 #80

MY subject line? You'll have to take that up with Ms. Butler of WAPO. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #90

see post 90. LeftOfWest Jun 2015 #117

stochastic terrorism ish of the hammer Jun 2015 #81

Perhaps you'd like to enlarge on this? Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #93

Could the 'random variable' in this killer terrorist's case be a racist family environment? Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #95

SC state Rep Todd Rutherford says it's cause they're egged on by Faux News... countryjake Jun 2015 #106

Obvious...'it's cause they're egged on by Faux News...' Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #119

From Daily Kos: backscatter712 Jun 2015 #109

^^^This!^^^ Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #116

It's a two-for-one deal. hunter Jun 2015 #82

^^^This!^^^ Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #86

Even unarmed people of color trying to swim are called thugs and Jamastiene Jun 2015 #105

Reminds me of these photos from Katrina. Remember the divergence in 'labelling'? Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #124

Sanders called it an act of terror. LWolf Jun 2015 #114

Good on him. Call it what it is. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #120

I've seen plenty of people Dorian Gray Jun 2015 #126

Well, the 'usual suspects' are pushing the meme of 'an attack on religion' and Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #127

I remember that the DC shooter was believed to be a white man Tipperary Jun 2015 #132

Racism = mental aberration, but that doesn't mean Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #135

DURec. bvar22 Jun 2015 #139

Yesss! I posted this unforgettable and damning contrast in another thread. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #141

Somebody send this to Chuck Todd. sinkingfeeling Jun 2015 #140

NRA B Calm Jun 2015 #142

humanizing him, compared to narrative spun about anyone not white. BlancheSplanchnik Jun 2015 #143

The very core of systemic racism and discrimination... Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #145

I put this *thing* into the same column as McVeigh. roamer65 Jun 2015 #144

Let's hope the FBI carries through and brings this sub-human before a FEDERAL court. Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #146

The murders dont fit the rules for being tried in federal court, they could charge him with a hate cstanleytech Jun 2015 #150

The only reason that someone could DELIBERATELY walk into a BLACK church rocktivity Jun 2015 #147

Ya think? Surya Gayatri Jun 2015 #148

The current director of the FBI doesn't think rocktivity Jun 2015 #149

Labeling any crime that scares the crap out of us as terrorism needs to be resisted, people!!! Freelancer Jun 2015 #151

Sickening get the red out Jun 2015 #152

Uhhhhh.... peace13 Jun 2015 #153

the overlay on all this is 1000 coordinated radio stations certainot Jun 2015 #154