General Discussion

Shamash

(597 posts)

41. Maybe you are, but I'm not

Sat Jun 20, 2015, 10:07 AM

Jun 2015

I've consistently advocated for improvements in and better enforcement of violations in the background check system, training requirements, nationwide standards for licensing and improved education, safety and integration of mental health records with all of the above.

I've also consistently opposed knee-jerk measures that affect people who are not the problem in the vague hope of accidentally nabbing someone who is. Much like I oppose NYC's "stop & frisk" and Arizona's "papers please" laws.

Think about it. If the background check system showed the Charleston shooter had a conviction making it illegal to own a firearm, he would have been committing a felony just by trying to buy that gun, and the police could have arrested him that same day. Everything we needed to stop that shooting was already in place. Criminal records were there, a background check system was there. If the two had been connected and there was a will to do something, the NICS system could have called the Charleston police and he would have walked out of that gun store in handcuffs.

Go look up how many background checks are failed each year by felons dumb enough to walk into a gun store to buy a gun. Then see how many of them were actually prosecuted.

Get back to me on new laws after we implement the ones we have, ones which could and should have prevented this crime.

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Why gun control is doomed [View all] damnedifIknow Jun 2015 OP

The pro-massacre lobby won. NuclearDem Jun 2015 #1

Because the Bible study group wasn't packing enough heat themselves? Are you fucking kidding me? Electric Monk Jun 2015 #10

No, because a possibly mentally ill white supremacist fuckwit was able to get a gun. NuclearDem Jun 2015 #37

I will not call this young man mentally ill nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #112

Shooter reportedly motivated in part by black on white violent crime. ed_shaw Jun 2015 #151

I read the statement in full nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #155

Yes, it sounds like he did. ed_shaw Jun 2015 #170

Well lone wolves are far more common than they used to be nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #171

cowards won Skittles Jun 2015 #12

Yep shenmue Jun 2015 #126

I happen to be in favof of total SheilaT Jun 2015 #2

guns are the perfect 4 yr old's toy: loud noise, bright flash, breaks stuff nt msongs Jun 2015 #3

... GGJohn Jun 2015 #5

It does not matter if the majority of firearms owners are law abiding. SheilaT Jun 2015 #7

Hey Sheila Shamash Jun 2015 #20

"And I'm perfectly happy with the way things are now..." daleanime Jun 2015 #33

Maybe you are, but I'm not Shamash Jun 2015 #41

There needs to be an investigation to see where NICS failed EL34x4 Jun 2015 #49

I agree. Virginia's broke down in the VT killings, yet its reporting system was 2nd only to CA. Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #68

Get back to you never, the pro-gun side talks well.... daleanime Jun 2015 #50

Here is the dilemma you are in: Wanting pro-gunners to do what you can't... Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #67

You never fail to come thru, El! CTyankee Jun 2015 #115

Every tragedy pipoman Jun 2015 #116

more of the same old, same old...I know you guys have your "sources." I see them CTyankee Jun 2015 #131

And the gun control usual suspects were the first on the scene pipoman Jun 2015 #133

so I guess it's "impossible" so just give up and don't try anything anymore... CTyankee Jun 2015 #134

There's actually a lot of things which could be done pipoman Jun 2015 #139

let's get them done then... CTyankee Jun 2015 #141

Get what done? The possible? pipoman Jun 2015 #143

And the NRA opposes absolutely all of the things that can be done mythology Jun 2015 #168

I'm not an NRA member and most of the things which could be done pipoman Jun 2015 #169

another guy whooping and hollering... CTyankee Jun 2015 #135

I have no idea what this has to do with what I said... pipoman Jun 2015 #140

think harder... CTyankee Jun 2015 #142

barely since it has nothing to do with DU... pipoman Jun 2015 #144

as long as some people blame the victims for their deaths by gun violence we avoid CTyankee Jun 2015 #145

you'll have to give me a post number for the problems and solutions as you see it.... pipoman Jun 2015 #157

It is there and I think you'll find what you are looking for. CTyankee Jun 2015 #162

Who was first in line with the animosity, CT? THAT is what never fails. Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #163

I disagree strongly with your ideas on this issue, it is not personal animosity. CTyankee Jun 2015 #165

??? SheilaT Jun 2015 #38

I'm an older guy Shamash Jun 2015 #42

Okay, you win. SheilaT Jun 2015 #44

Yes, I -will- be surprised Shamash Jun 2015 #46

At around 10k non suicide deaths annually pipoman Jun 2015 #120

"There's another readily identifiable minority" - guns are a choice you make to own. The Straight Story Jun 2015 #62

Because committing violent crimes is a matter of desire/intent. Which invites comparison. n/t Shamash Jun 2015 #130

So start the process to repeal the 2A, GGJohn Jun 2015 #29

With your rationale we would have to reinstate Prohibition. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #58

I would say that 80+ million gun owners downright disagree with that. beevul Jun 2015 #80

That "culture war thingy"... Chan790 Jun 2015 #32

LOL. GGJohn Jun 2015 #34

Have you ever even considered the logistics of a "total gun confiscation"?? It would NEVER happen, Ghost in the Machine Jun 2015 #6

It happened in Australia. SheilaT Jun 2015 #8

The bad guys in Australia just build their own now. davepc Jun 2015 #11

And the cops have got them off the street. Are you claiming gun control doesn't work here? n/t Violet_Crumble Jun 2015 #14

"Gun control" is not a panacea. They problem is the "why" - why these mass shootings? jonno99 Jun 2015 #55

Which means they're not available to ordinary members of the public. SwissTony Jun 2015 #17

Oh. I guess I've missed their frequent mass murders as well. SheilaT Jun 2015 #39

I'm not a fan of our then Prime Minister John Howard SwissTony Jun 2015 #16

Nor me, but he was awesome when it came to gun control... Violet_Crumble Jun 2015 #36

Just like Electronic Frontier Foundation members are all responsible for child porn friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #18

Even Australians did not put up with it Shamash Jun 2015 #21

Let me tell you how the gun control laws help us as a whole... Violet_Crumble Jun 2015 #31

If one is correlating crime with gun ownership Shamash Jun 2015 #43

Um, I didn't expect my home to be less likely to be burgled... Violet_Crumble Jun 2015 #127

If I were PM of Australia... Shamash Jun 2015 #132

And the Australian public would have had four words for you... Violet_Crumble Jun 2015 #147

I didn't ask the Australian public, I asked -you- Shamash Jun 2015 #150

And I'm telling you how the vast majority of Australians felt... Violet_Crumble Jun 2015 #152

Post removed Post removed Jun 2015 #153

yes there are gejohnston Jun 2015 #123

I disagree. One can support a civil liberty and still condemn those who exploit it to do harm aikoaiko Jun 2015 #22

Actually, no, they *bought* them. You ready to pony up market prices for 350 million guns? X_Digger Jun 2015 #65

"Fuck you. You are, each and every one of you, responsible for Charleston and every single other.. Ghost in the Machine Jun 2015 #66

Classy, huh? Lizzie Poppet Jun 2015 #98

Yep, a real class act there... Ghost in the Machine Jun 2015 #113

This has gone out of control ed_shaw Jun 2015 #172

Happened in Australia because their people consented to it LittleBlue Jun 2015 #77

These people are playing with matches- Lulu Belle Jun 2015 #148

Well, that changes everything. beevul Jun 2015 #81

The United States has almost FOURTEEN TIMES the population of Australia. n/t cherokeeprogressive Jun 2015 #83

Disgustingly, this vulgar, irrational, insulting POS post was (barely) sustained. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2015 #97

Not surprising here Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #104

and legal gun ownership is the same gejohnston Jun 2015 #121

And if you go to, enjoy, or have a swimming pool pipoman Jun 2015 #122

Pass laws to freeze the assets of people with guns Cali_Democrat Jun 2015 #9

How do you propose to get the 20-25% of Americans that own guns to go along with that... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #13

Those Americans will have bank accounts Cali_Democrat Jun 2015 #47

even if such a law were possible, which it isn't, you wouldn't know where to look in most cases. aikoaiko Jun 2015 #24

Pass laws to freeze the assets of people convicted of DUI Ghost in the Machine Jun 2015 #73

Have you read the Bill of Rights lately? delta17 Jun 2015 #119

You do it how Japan did it. Chan790 Jun 2015 #35

Thanks for that information, as I didn't know that about Japan. SheilaT Jun 2015 #40

A wonderful addition to this thread - very informative Pooka Fey Jun 2015 #45

Now this approach is interesting. It sounds similar to what the bad guys have done w Roe v Wade. calimary Jun 2015 #57

Sure put a dent in their suicide rate. Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #69

So, basically, you support Communism? Which Constitutional Right are YOU willing to give up?? Ghost in the Machine Jun 2015 #76

What does revoking RKBA have to do with state ownership of the means of production of capital? Chan790 Jun 2015 #79

Post removed Post removed Jun 2015 #87

"So on...chip chip chip." beevul Jun 2015 #82

Thank goodness the Constitution protects us from people like you. tritsofme Jun 2015 #102

This is exactly why many of us RKBA'ers argue that gun control is a slippery slope. appal_jack Jun 2015 #146

And you see ANY POSSIBILITY of that ever passing any congress? nt Logical Jun 2015 #23

I'm with you, SheilaT. calimary Jun 2015 #53

unless you repeal the 2nd amendment it cant happen rdking647 Jun 2015 #167

It's easy to forget: (1) We really can change things; (2) Changing things takes lots of time struggle4progress Jun 2015 #4

Gun control is not doomed, however given the US' history, it will be akbacchus_BC Jun 2015 #15

That's sounds pretty elitist. LAGC Jun 2015 #61

Remember folks Shamash Jun 2015 #19

Probably no more gun control, per se... but more surveillance, more people control seems possible HereSince1628 Jun 2015 #25

Self-fulfilling prophecy. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #26

Amazing how many Democrats also have this bizzare fetish for guns. DCBob Jun 2015 #27

Yep Shamash Jun 2015 #48

LOL laundry_queen Jun 2015 #78

Its right there in so many anti-gun posts for all to see. beevul Jun 2015 #84

Again LOL laundry_queen Jun 2015 #88

Thats what I'd say if I were in denial of it, myself. N/T beevul Jun 2015 #89

Denial of what? laundry_queen Jun 2015 #91

The behavior you're ignoring. beevul Jun 2015 #94

plenty of hateful behavior laundry_queen Jun 2015 #96

Whatever "hateful" behavior is coming from the pro-gun side, it PALES in comparison... beevul Jun 2015 #99

If there is plenty Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #105

Simply crashing a thread laundry_queen Jun 2015 #107

I see you could not link to any Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #108

I see the search function escapes your capabilities. nt laundry_queen Jun 2015 #109

No, it does not Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #110

and what am I searching for? Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #111

Some folks "like" guns just because the guns are "cool" and go bang. jonno99 Jun 2015 #59

Neither do I. smirkymonkey Jun 2015 #158

I grew up on a farm in the midwest and did alot of hunting. DCBob Jun 2015 #160

Because of Republicans. Same as most everything else. DanTex Jun 2015 #28

Let me fix that title for you: 99Forever Jun 2015 #30

Weapon manufacturers benefit from mass murders. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2015 #51

So if bar owners can be held liable for the murder that's committed when a drunk calimary Jun 2015 #60

No, your analogy is off. X_Digger Jun 2015 #74

Because they bought politicians to make it that way SwankyXomb Jun 2015 #103

apples and oranges and you know it Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #106

President Obama, House Speaker Pelosi, AG Holder ALL advocated banning.... Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #72

There are two ways to get pro-gun legislators to vote on gun bills. valerief Jun 2015 #52

Theres nothing ethical... beevul Jun 2015 #86

It has to be a community project. hunter Jun 2015 #54

It's sick is what it is damnedifIknow Jun 2015 #63

Gun control is a political loser. earthside Jun 2015 #56

I think it should be up to the person who wants a gun to prove they are not a gun pervert... hunter Jun 2015 #64

lol, NM_Birder Jun 2015 #70

White Republican Gun Love is extinct as a political issue in my community. hunter Jun 2015 #85

"Obsessing about tools of death, collecting them, admiring them, is a perverse sick fetish". smirkymonkey Jun 2015 #159

A lot of people in the South had to "prove" they knew constitutional law to vote... Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #75

Don't know anything about that. hunter Jun 2015 #90

Well, you sound like an American! Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #93

This was up until the 1960s (nt) Recursion Jun 2015 #136

I had trouble with the "gun gets you the vote and protects you from the night rider..." hunter Jun 2015 #154

There's a PBS docu about armed Black defense in the 60s. it's interesting. Recursion Jun 2015 #156

Because the proposal is insufficient. Chan790 Jun 2015 #117

Rights aren't based on 'need', they're inherent friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #128

I'm a vocal adherent, even in this thread, of 2nd A. repeal. Chan790 Jun 2015 #149

I support both pro-gun and anti-gun ideas madville Jun 2015 #71

the problem comes when a responsible, non-violent member of society becomes CTyankee Jun 2015 #138

I own guns that nobody knows about. I doubt I'm the only one. Throd Jun 2015 #92

We had a Rethug Congress in 2012. But eventually we won't -- demographics are moving pnwmom Jun 2015 #95

I don't know why so many Americans are so twisted compared to other humans in other Arugula Latte Jun 2015 #100

+1000 smirkymonkey Jun 2015 #161

The people still believing in the promised land of gun control Shamash Jun 2015 #101

an amerikan disease/plague. pansypoo53219 Jun 2015 #114

The idea that the earth is not flat was doomed Aerows Jun 2015 #118

1992 was the apology: Galileo got in trouble for burning every bridge and not having proof to separa MisterP Jun 2015 #124

He was sentenced and excommunicated Aerows Jun 2015 #125

... without evidence MisterP Jun 2015 #164

Your reply is confusing Aerows Jun 2015 #166

I don't think anyone has ever thought the earth was flat Recursion Jun 2015 #137

The REAL reason (warning, some will be offended) DonCoquixote Jun 2015 #129