General Discussion

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)

146. But those "real and prescient concerns..." you mentioned ARE ultimately economic........

Sat Jun 20, 2015, 07:10 PM

Jun 2015

in nature BECAUSE THEY ARE OUTGROWTHS OF THE ECONOMICS OF CAPTIALISM! And those problems won't completely go away until capitalism does.

But just because the problems won't go completely away until capitalism is gone doesn't mean that you don't fight oppression in all of it's forms in the here and now. You fight any and all forms of oppression because reforms can make some difference in the lives of some of the working class AND you fight oppression to show that reforms while keeping capitalism in place never gets rid of the problem altogether. Reforms merely ameliorate the problems somewhat, usually temporarily because there is profit to the owners in oppression and exploitation.

But mostly you fight oppression because it's the right thing to do.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

235 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Questions for Bernie supporters: NPR interview 'You shouldn't base your politics on your skin color' [View all] bigtree Jun 2015 OP

Bernie Probably Means That Politics Should Be Color Blind - Instead Politics Should Be About cantbeserious Jun 2015 #1

so, it was just not artfully stated? bigtree Jun 2015 #2

Yes - That May Be The Case cantbeserious Jun 2015 #4

Those who support Bernie on DU do not speak for him, nor do we have any merrily Jun 2015 #17

In my experience, I've found that it is always best to examine the past history Zorra Jun 2015 #63

Agree. That is what my original reply on this thread did, by giving links to posts in which history merrily Jun 2015 #69

Well said, and done. Zorra Jun 2015 #76

Reminiscent of the 2008 primary. merrily Jun 2015 #79

Same intent with only slight variation in execution. AtomicKitten Jun 2015 #124

maybe he shouldn't discuss it bigtree Jun 2015 #81

I remember your Op about your dad, bigtree sheshe2 Jun 2015 #150

He meant what he said. onecaliberal Jun 2015 #3

I'm not 'twisting' anything bigtree Jun 2015 #7

You just insinuated it was a problem for him to say That onecaliberal Jun 2015 #10

well, it did strike me as wrong bigtree Jun 2015 #14

So whites should only vote for white candidates AgingAmerican Jun 2015 #85

my comments weren't about who we vote for, it's about viewing issues through a racial lens bigtree Jun 2015 #91

My question still stands AgingAmerican Jun 2015 #96

the 'racial lens' isn't as narrow as you suppose bigtree Jun 2015 #103

In many contexts it is AgingAmerican Jun 2015 #108

you drew the context as a handful of oppressive countries bigtree Jun 2015 #112

Thank you. 7962 Jun 2015 #92

You don't get anything about me. You're not worth my time. onecaliberal Jun 2015 #93

I got that right away bigtree Jun 2015 #120

That sort of logic is why we are where we are. bluesbassman Jun 2015 #24

You think the kinship people felt w Obama is merely skin deep- based on looks? bettyellen Jun 2015 #28

Did I say that? bluesbassman Jun 2015 #35

of course, I've defined above what that actually means bigtree Jun 2015 #41

I think the difference is- they referred to the voters color (or gender) as a big part of what bettyellen Jun 2015 #42

So there it is. bluesbassman Jun 2015 #50

It's not a ploy - it's observations from voters who were oft excluded. bettyellen Jun 2015 #53

Smear me all you want, although you can't back up anything you've said to what I've posted. bluesbassman Jun 2015 #65

What fucking smears? You're the one pretending that POC are faking concerns at Clinton's behest! bettyellen Jun 2015 #68

Is there some on-line class one can take to learn these techniques? bluesbassman Jun 2015 #78

Then its fine for whites to say they'll only vote for white candidates? No. 7962 Jun 2015 #89

no bigtree Jun 2015 #95

He mrant what he said, and what he said was bullshit. okasha Jun 2015 #198

Wow, I am sure u demand answers from Hillary just like that Tea Potty Jun 2015 #223

Damn right I do. okasha Jun 2015 #225

That sure is a good question to ask Bernie Sanders MrMickeysMom Jun 2015 #227

That certainly is the way I read that statement. Betty Karlson Jun 2015 #179

.... merrily Jun 2015 #5

Are you saying racial politics don't exist? Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #6

I asked if that is what he was referring to, because it's not as claer as you suggest bigtree Jun 2015 #8

Sorry but it seemed pretty clear. Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #11

because some black Americans, in particular, have concerns which are based solely on their race bigtree Jun 2015 #16

wow... Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #22

two different perspectives going on here about what he meant bigtree Jun 2015 #45

I think that the word "you" was used generically Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #48

you're all bent about how I interpret Bernie's words bigtree Jun 2015 #58

misinterpret Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #109

You are so damned busy trying to take offense to a COMMON SENSE post from bigtree that you aren't Number23 Jun 2015 #204

that was exactly my point Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #226

No, that was bigtree's point! Number23 Jun 2015 #230

Inartfully stated. geek tragedy Jun 2015 #9

The idea that African Americans vote based on race BainsBane Jun 2015 #12

All I can say is this: If I were an African American Republican, I would have voted for Obama. merrily Jun 2015 #18

You aren't BainsBane Jun 2015 #59

.. merrily Jun 2015 #64

Well, we know you sure as hell aren't black brentspeak Jun 2015 #155

Of course I'm not BainsBane Jun 2015 #156

Here's a statement from one who did just that: 7962 Jun 2015 #129

Assuming I could somehow be a Republican and an African American and still merrily Jun 2015 #134

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2015 #189

Well said, BB. This OP is striking in the howls of denial. Notice I said "striking" not "surprising" Number23 Jun 2015 #203

Not just gospel BainsBane Jun 2015 #207

My problem with the sentiment is that black voters and other persons of color do not have the luxury YoungDemCA Jun 2015 #13

as I pointed out- Sanders sees everything primarily from an economic lens. There's another interview KittyWampus Jun 2015 #15

With all due respect, you don't know how Sanders sees things. None of us do. merrily Jun 2015 #19

Well between his website and his stump speeches it's a fair assessment.. bettyellen Jun 2015 #30

I disagree. merrily Jun 2015 #31

Fair enough! I think you're awesome anyway, lol. bettyellen Jun 2015 #44

Well racial issues all lead back to economics. zeemike Jun 2015 #66

no on the heaven05 Jun 2015 #97

Have you ever heard of a cop beating the shit out of a black person zeemike Jun 2015 #142

it's just a matter of time heaven05 Jun 2015 #144

Lots of experience. zeemike Jun 2015 #145

laudable heaven05 Jun 2015 #148

Yes it was but that was not the beginning or the end of it. zeemike Jun 2015 #152

Cops arrest and beat the shit out of BLACK HARVARD PROFESSORS Number23 Jun 2015 #205

And please stop lecturing me about what I know. zeemike Jun 2015 #208

This is the first time I have EVER responded to you, particularly since you were the FIRST person on Number23 Jun 2015 #209

This is GD not a group. zeemike Jun 2015 #212

I don't give a flying fishtick about you. I am hostile to the oft repeated stupidity here that black Number23 Jun 2015 #213

I am not going to fight with you so give it up.n/t zeemike Jun 2015 #218

Again, if you can't be bothered to learn what you're talking about before needlessly launching Number23 Jun 2015 #224

Again, not going to fight with you. zeemike Jun 2015 #228

You don't need to fight. You need to LISTEN. And I'll repeat that as often as needed too. Number23 Jun 2015 #231

Listen like you are the parent and I am the child. zeemike Jun 2015 #232

No, listen like you are a person who keeps inserting yourself into topics that you CLEARLY have no Number23 Jun 2015 #233

Well you care enough to keep posting to me zeemike Jun 2015 #235

I think Bernie feels we need to look at everything with as broad a perspective as we can... cascadiance Jun 2015 #86

Except racial issues POC have to deal with? unnnnn... uponit7771 Jun 2015 #192

That's the talking point AgingAmerican Jun 2015 #94

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2015 #191

Thank God African Americans, Latinos, Asians, Jews, glbtq persons vote as a bloc... DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #20

We all vote in blocs - whatever we call them there blocs erronis Jun 2015 #98

Seems to me very similar to stuff MLK said n/t Yo_Mama Jun 2015 #21

What? BainsBane Jun 2015 #26

Most adults know that. If you don't, google is your friend. merrily Jun 2015 #36

Where will Google take me to tell me that MLK said African Americans voted based only on skin color? BainsBane Jun 2015 #55

Oh, please. You replied to Yo Mama' post. Very obviously, that post did not mean that MLK merrily Jun 2015 #62

well heaven05 Jun 2015 #99

Of course not. But racism IS a cause of economic inequality. merrily Jun 2015 #102

no argument heaven05 Jun 2015 #122

MLK Spoke specifically of racism and racist issues affecting POC not just economic injustice uponit7771 Jun 2015 #193

Some people do vote based on race or gender AnnieO Jun 2015 #23

Welcome to DU! marble falls Jun 2015 #32

Well part of the reason I voted for Obama was because he was black. zeemike Jun 2015 #75

Excellent questions- hope we can get clarity and not more bullshit saying this bettyellen Jun 2015 #25

By your logic I'm all in for Ben Carson, then KeepItReal Jun 2015 #27

"how is the Black economic plight any different from any other racial group that is unemployed" leftofcool Jun 2015 #46

I'm responding the OP about racial politics. What are you talking about? KeepItReal Jun 2015 #47

actually, Bernie referred to our skin color bigtree Jun 2015 #51

There are no Black Democratic candidates. So are you asking this of both Sanders and Clinton? KeepItReal Jun 2015 #57

I'm questioning Sander's statement bigtree Jun 2015 #60

You listened to this NPR interview and got that specific point out of it? KeepItReal Jun 2015 #71

well, bigtree Jun 2015 #73

I wonder how many Dems are going to vote for Carson? Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2015 #133

If you can't highlight your own candidate's Le Taz Hot Jun 2015 #29

That got alerted quickly. Awaiting results. pintobean Jun 2015 #34

It stands! MelissaB Jun 2015 #37

Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT. pintobean Jun 2015 #40

I do believe the reference applies to Le Taz Hot Jun 2015 #39

flamebait? bigtree Jun 2015 #54

Bigtree's candidate is O'Malley, not Clinton, and he Vattel Jun 2015 #167

Then he should continue to do so Le Taz Hot Jun 2015 #168

oh, I will bigtree Jun 2015 #174

Kick and highly recommended! William769 Jun 2015 #33

Political decisions should be based on other factors than skin color. madfloridian Jun 2015 #38

if you read what I wrote bigtree Jun 2015 #56

Any candidate can use the right words. madfloridian Jun 2015 #61

the problem may well be that you've misinterpreted the questions bigtree Jun 2015 #70

The problem is... madfloridian Jun 2015 #83

from where I sit bigtree Jun 2015 #100

Don't assume I have faith in ANY politicians. madfloridian Jun 2015 #105

okay bigtree Jun 2015 #114

Hey, I can't say anything right here anymore. madfloridian Jun 2015 #119

no, you said a great deal right bigtree Jun 2015 #121

+1 Zorra Jun 2015 #77

This is one of the problems with populism........ socialist_n_TN Jun 2015 #43

you've raised a strawman about Carson and his ilk bigtree Jun 2015 #67

But those "real and prescient concerns..." you mentioned ARE ultimately economic........ socialist_n_TN Jun 2015 #146

This quote bothers me. zappaman Jun 2015 #49

Why did you chop off a very crucial part of that quote? Bjorn Against Jun 2015 #106

Well, because honesty wouldn't make for a good smear, of course. /nt Marr Jun 2015 #111

...^ that 840high Jun 2015 #229

Very selective editing there. Autumn Jun 2015 #117

I think the label for the paragraph distorts the context somewhat fishwax Jun 2015 #52

I think he is saying how much policy has an efffect. Afterall, the AA community didn't mmonk Jun 2015 #72

I don't believe at all that he's a 'racist' bigtree Jun 2015 #74

Next up: Cherry-picking intel to make it seem Iraq was behind 9/11. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2015 #80

Trying to attach a (dishonest) meme to Bernie, eh? U4ikLefty Jun 2015 #82

lol.nt Snotcicles Jun 2015 #90

Color a main consideration? That is precisely what he ran on and how we got Ronald Reagan, jtuck004 Jun 2015 #84

Trying some alternative statements... Koinos Jun 2015 #87

Well, he's right HassleCat Jun 2015 #88

My politics aren't based on color...or gender, or wealth, or likeabiltiy, or charisma, or Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2015 #101

Really? Because my life is about gender, race, wealth BainsBane Jun 2015 #201

I vote for issues...like the ones you mentioned. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2015 #202

Then why would you insist none of that matters? BainsBane Jun 2015 #214

I don't respond to RW Buzz either. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2015 #220

Completely unrecommended. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #104

I have two serious questions for you. Admiral Loinpresser Jun 2015 #107

you think any discussion of race is inappropriate right now? bigtree Jun 2015 #118

Your post is indecent. Admiral Loinpresser Jun 2015 #123

no it isn't bigtree Jun 2015 #125

Apparently you didn't read my objection. Admiral Loinpresser Jun 2015 #130

I read it bigtree Jun 2015 #131

This is the perfect time to ask the questions bigtree. William769 Jun 2015 #141

Yep, you have no right BainsBane Jun 2015 #137

"Playing the race card" BainsBane Jun 2015 #135

My understanding is that Sanders sees social and economic justice as inseparable, and Marr Jun 2015 #110

^^THIS -- we have a winnah! nashville_brook Jun 2015 #140

So if the economic infrastructer of racial injustice was done away with racial issues POC face ... uponit7771 Jun 2015 #196

Yep. romanic Jun 2015 #210

I got that back in 1965, along with Black Panthers and SDS associates that moved beyond race n/t bobthedrummer Jun 2015 #113

this is an ugly, ugly thread heaven05 Jun 2015 #115

An incredibly ugly thread. But not one damn thing about it has been surprising. Sanders supporters Number23 Jun 2015 #206

tldr otherone Jun 2015 #116

Do you vote based on color? I don't. arcane1 Jun 2015 #126

most of the issues that I care about center on race bigtree Jun 2015 #127

I was referring to the color of the candidate n/t arcane1 Jun 2015 #128

that's not what I was discussing bigtree Jun 2015 #132

In my view race questions are always a trap daredtowork Jun 2015 #136

I don't vote based on gender or race. I vote for a politician that takes a stand on issues that are Autumn Jun 2015 #138

I don't think Sen Sanders tailors his speech to suit the audience he's talking to tularetom Jun 2015 #139

Meh DesmondFoster Jun 2015 #143

Bernie wasn't talking about the race of the candidate bigtree Jun 2015 #147

I think he makes no sense here but I'm not a Bernie supporter so I won't elaborate. Cha Jun 2015 #149

Just saw this, SusanCalvin Jun 2015 #151

I appreciate your efforts to find something, ANYTHING, with which to smear Bernie Sanders. Maedhros Jun 2015 #153

like this article I just posted? bigtree Jun 2015 #157

I understand your motivations. [n/t] Maedhros Jun 2015 #165

no you don't bigtree Jun 2015 #171

I appreciate your concern. [n/t] Maedhros Jun 2015 #181

no you don't bigtree Jun 2015 #182

I'm sorry, but I don't think you're sincere. Maedhros Jun 2015 #186

you don't know me or anything significant about me bigtree Jun 2015 #187

It's no coincidence that the forum has been deluged with posts accusing Bernie Maedhros Jun 2015 #188

I'm not supporting the Hillary campaign. I have absolutely nothing to do with it. bigtree Jun 2015 #190

Just calling it as I see it. Maedhros Jun 2015 #194

you just did bring it up bigtree Jun 2015 #195

I'm not dictating anything. Maedhros Jun 2015 #222

Way reasonable and you have every right to. I don't think Bernie would be offended that you're Cha Jun 2015 #166

Bernie may be referring to the fact that one of the Republican candidates for the primaries JDPriestly Jun 2015 #154

if that was what he meant bigtree Jun 2015 #159

Honest question, bigotry: Bonobo Jun 2015 #158

malicious bigtree Jun 2015 #160

I think if we are going to cast aspersions, you should expect some kickback, bigtree. Bonobo Jun 2015 #161

I don't think it's going to be sufficient to point to Hillary or anyone else bigtree Jun 2015 #162

If this OP were in a vacuum, I would tend to agree that your points are thoughtful and therefore Bonobo Jun 2015 #163

I'm not a Hillary supporter bigtree Jun 2015 #164

Parsing his words is a line of attack nowadays and it's weak. AtomicKitten Jun 2015 #215

One has to understand that the racism trickles down. raouldukelives Jun 2015 #169

I agree, this sounds like Bernie doesn't have a clear appreciation for the issues affecting POC. DCBob Jun 2015 #170

exactly bigtree Jun 2015 #172

Bernie seems overly focused on the issues of economics. DCBob Jun 2015 #175

one positive thing that I've noticed has occurred bigtree Jun 2015 #176

+1, on issues POC deal with Bernie comes out on the side of common sense justice but on uponit7771 Jun 2015 #197

"Whenever any group can vote in a bloc, and decide the outcome of elections, and it fails ..." DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #173

I hope all of the candidates address the issues you raise because they are extremely important. Vattel Jun 2015 #177

Kick and Recommended ismnotwasm Jun 2015 #178

What he's not comfortable saying, but I will. "Identity Politics" should not be placed above 2banon Jun 2015 #180

Sanders wasn't talking choosing a black or female president bigtree Jun 2015 #184

You mean the identify of others doesn't count BainsBane Jun 2015 #211

Identity politics have been used by TPTB... MellowDem Jun 2015 #183

voters have been voting on interests particular to their lives for as long as there was a vote bigtree Jun 2015 #185

Sure they can... MellowDem Jun 2015 #199

comparing the concerns considered by black voters over issues like discrimination, voting rights bigtree Jun 2015 #200

Talk about reading comprehension... MellowDem Jun 2015 #216

Sanders talked about what voters should base their politics on bigtree Jun 2015 #219

I think he was trying to address... MellowDem Jun 2015 #221

Bingo! I was having hard time articulating pretty much what you just did so clearly. 2banon Jun 2015 #234

This country has not overcome racism. President Obama overcame it to get elected. Let's tell the craigmatic Jun 2015 #217