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bigtree

(94,290 posts)

162. I don't think it's going to be sufficient to point to Hillary or anyone else

Sun Jun 21, 2015, 03:00 AM

Jun 2015

...to explain away Bernie Sander's own words.

Again, you aren't even remotely responding to ANYTHING I wrote in my op. You're addressing the political deflections made by posters defending Bernie sanders against any question of his views or comments on race. I don't have a problem with 'kickback' on something I've actually written, but the majority of the comments against me on this thread are against strawmen about a supposed political attack constructed to deflect from the very valid and thoughtful points I made.

You're fighting against the notion that I'm supporting Hillary Clinton in this primary. I'm not. I support Martin O'Malley. Moreover, I posted a very direct criticism of his own inability to directly address the issue of racism this morning in an op responding to his statements on the Charleston shooting.

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Questions for Bernie supporters: NPR interview 'You shouldn't base your politics on your skin color' [View all] bigtree Jun 2015 OP

Bernie Probably Means That Politics Should Be Color Blind - Instead Politics Should Be About cantbeserious Jun 2015 #1

so, it was just not artfully stated? bigtree Jun 2015 #2

Yes - That May Be The Case cantbeserious Jun 2015 #4

Those who support Bernie on DU do not speak for him, nor do we have any merrily Jun 2015 #17

In my experience, I've found that it is always best to examine the past history Zorra Jun 2015 #63

Agree. That is what my original reply on this thread did, by giving links to posts in which history merrily Jun 2015 #69

Well said, and done. Zorra Jun 2015 #76

Reminiscent of the 2008 primary. merrily Jun 2015 #79

Same intent with only slight variation in execution. AtomicKitten Jun 2015 #124

maybe he shouldn't discuss it bigtree Jun 2015 #81

I remember your Op about your dad, bigtree sheshe2 Jun 2015 #150

He meant what he said. onecaliberal Jun 2015 #3

I'm not 'twisting' anything bigtree Jun 2015 #7

You just insinuated it was a problem for him to say That onecaliberal Jun 2015 #10

well, it did strike me as wrong bigtree Jun 2015 #14

So whites should only vote for white candidates AgingAmerican Jun 2015 #85

my comments weren't about who we vote for, it's about viewing issues through a racial lens bigtree Jun 2015 #91

My question still stands AgingAmerican Jun 2015 #96

the 'racial lens' isn't as narrow as you suppose bigtree Jun 2015 #103

In many contexts it is AgingAmerican Jun 2015 #108

you drew the context as a handful of oppressive countries bigtree Jun 2015 #112

Thank you. 7962 Jun 2015 #92

You don't get anything about me. You're not worth my time. onecaliberal Jun 2015 #93

I got that right away bigtree Jun 2015 #120

That sort of logic is why we are where we are. bluesbassman Jun 2015 #24

You think the kinship people felt w Obama is merely skin deep- based on looks? bettyellen Jun 2015 #28

Did I say that? bluesbassman Jun 2015 #35

of course, I've defined above what that actually means bigtree Jun 2015 #41

I think the difference is- they referred to the voters color (or gender) as a big part of what bettyellen Jun 2015 #42

So there it is. bluesbassman Jun 2015 #50

It's not a ploy - it's observations from voters who were oft excluded. bettyellen Jun 2015 #53

Smear me all you want, although you can't back up anything you've said to what I've posted. bluesbassman Jun 2015 #65

What fucking smears? You're the one pretending that POC are faking concerns at Clinton's behest! bettyellen Jun 2015 #68

Is there some on-line class one can take to learn these techniques? bluesbassman Jun 2015 #78

Then its fine for whites to say they'll only vote for white candidates? No. 7962 Jun 2015 #89

no bigtree Jun 2015 #95

He mrant what he said, and what he said was bullshit. okasha Jun 2015 #198

Wow, I am sure u demand answers from Hillary just like that Tea Potty Jun 2015 #223

Damn right I do. okasha Jun 2015 #225

That sure is a good question to ask Bernie Sanders MrMickeysMom Jun 2015 #227

That certainly is the way I read that statement. Betty Karlson Jun 2015 #179

.... merrily Jun 2015 #5

Are you saying racial politics don't exist? Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #6

I asked if that is what he was referring to, because it's not as claer as you suggest bigtree Jun 2015 #8

Sorry but it seemed pretty clear. Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #11

because some black Americans, in particular, have concerns which are based solely on their race bigtree Jun 2015 #16

wow... Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #22

two different perspectives going on here about what he meant bigtree Jun 2015 #45

I think that the word "you" was used generically Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #48

you're all bent about how I interpret Bernie's words bigtree Jun 2015 #58

misinterpret Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #109

You are so damned busy trying to take offense to a COMMON SENSE post from bigtree that you aren't Number23 Jun 2015 #204

that was exactly my point Motown_Johnny Jun 2015 #226

No, that was bigtree's point! Number23 Jun 2015 #230

Inartfully stated. geek tragedy Jun 2015 #9

The idea that African Americans vote based on race BainsBane Jun 2015 #12

All I can say is this: If I were an African American Republican, I would have voted for Obama. merrily Jun 2015 #18

You aren't BainsBane Jun 2015 #59

.. merrily Jun 2015 #64

Well, we know you sure as hell aren't black brentspeak Jun 2015 #155

Of course I'm not BainsBane Jun 2015 #156

Here's a statement from one who did just that: 7962 Jun 2015 #129

Assuming I could somehow be a Republican and an African American and still merrily Jun 2015 #134

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2015 #189

Well said, BB. This OP is striking in the howls of denial. Notice I said "striking" not "surprising" Number23 Jun 2015 #203

Not just gospel BainsBane Jun 2015 #207

My problem with the sentiment is that black voters and other persons of color do not have the luxury YoungDemCA Jun 2015 #13

as I pointed out- Sanders sees everything primarily from an economic lens. There's another interview KittyWampus Jun 2015 #15

With all due respect, you don't know how Sanders sees things. None of us do. merrily Jun 2015 #19

Well between his website and his stump speeches it's a fair assessment.. bettyellen Jun 2015 #30

I disagree. merrily Jun 2015 #31

Fair enough! I think you're awesome anyway, lol. bettyellen Jun 2015 #44

Well racial issues all lead back to economics. zeemike Jun 2015 #66

no on the heaven05 Jun 2015 #97

Have you ever heard of a cop beating the shit out of a black person zeemike Jun 2015 #142

it's just a matter of time heaven05 Jun 2015 #144

Lots of experience. zeemike Jun 2015 #145

laudable heaven05 Jun 2015 #148

Yes it was but that was not the beginning or the end of it. zeemike Jun 2015 #152

Cops arrest and beat the shit out of BLACK HARVARD PROFESSORS Number23 Jun 2015 #205

And please stop lecturing me about what I know. zeemike Jun 2015 #208

This is the first time I have EVER responded to you, particularly since you were the FIRST person on Number23 Jun 2015 #209

This is GD not a group. zeemike Jun 2015 #212

I don't give a flying fishtick about you. I am hostile to the oft repeated stupidity here that black Number23 Jun 2015 #213

I am not going to fight with you so give it up.n/t zeemike Jun 2015 #218

Again, if you can't be bothered to learn what you're talking about before needlessly launching Number23 Jun 2015 #224

Again, not going to fight with you. zeemike Jun 2015 #228

You don't need to fight. You need to LISTEN. And I'll repeat that as often as needed too. Number23 Jun 2015 #231

Listen like you are the parent and I am the child. zeemike Jun 2015 #232

No, listen like you are a person who keeps inserting yourself into topics that you CLEARLY have no Number23 Jun 2015 #233

Well you care enough to keep posting to me zeemike Jun 2015 #235

I think Bernie feels we need to look at everything with as broad a perspective as we can... cascadiance Jun 2015 #86

Except racial issues POC have to deal with? unnnnn... uponit7771 Jun 2015 #192

That's the talking point AgingAmerican Jun 2015 #94

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2015 #191

Thank God African Americans, Latinos, Asians, Jews, glbtq persons vote as a bloc... DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #20

We all vote in blocs - whatever we call them there blocs erronis Jun 2015 #98

Seems to me very similar to stuff MLK said n/t Yo_Mama Jun 2015 #21

What? BainsBane Jun 2015 #26

Most adults know that. If you don't, google is your friend. merrily Jun 2015 #36

Where will Google take me to tell me that MLK said African Americans voted based only on skin color? BainsBane Jun 2015 #55

Oh, please. You replied to Yo Mama' post. Very obviously, that post did not mean that MLK merrily Jun 2015 #62

well heaven05 Jun 2015 #99

Of course not. But racism IS a cause of economic inequality. merrily Jun 2015 #102

no argument heaven05 Jun 2015 #122

MLK Spoke specifically of racism and racist issues affecting POC not just economic injustice uponit7771 Jun 2015 #193

Some people do vote based on race or gender AnnieO Jun 2015 #23

Welcome to DU! marble falls Jun 2015 #32

Well part of the reason I voted for Obama was because he was black. zeemike Jun 2015 #75

Excellent questions- hope we can get clarity and not more bullshit saying this bettyellen Jun 2015 #25

By your logic I'm all in for Ben Carson, then KeepItReal Jun 2015 #27

"how is the Black economic plight any different from any other racial group that is unemployed" leftofcool Jun 2015 #46

I'm responding the OP about racial politics. What are you talking about? KeepItReal Jun 2015 #47

actually, Bernie referred to our skin color bigtree Jun 2015 #51

There are no Black Democratic candidates. So are you asking this of both Sanders and Clinton? KeepItReal Jun 2015 #57

I'm questioning Sander's statement bigtree Jun 2015 #60

You listened to this NPR interview and got that specific point out of it? KeepItReal Jun 2015 #71

well, bigtree Jun 2015 #73

I wonder how many Dems are going to vote for Carson? Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2015 #133

If you can't highlight your own candidate's Le Taz Hot Jun 2015 #29

That got alerted quickly. Awaiting results. pintobean Jun 2015 #34

It stands! MelissaB Jun 2015 #37

Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT. pintobean Jun 2015 #40

I do believe the reference applies to Le Taz Hot Jun 2015 #39

flamebait? bigtree Jun 2015 #54

Bigtree's candidate is O'Malley, not Clinton, and he Vattel Jun 2015 #167

Then he should continue to do so Le Taz Hot Jun 2015 #168

oh, I will bigtree Jun 2015 #174

Kick and highly recommended! William769 Jun 2015 #33

Political decisions should be based on other factors than skin color. madfloridian Jun 2015 #38

if you read what I wrote bigtree Jun 2015 #56

Any candidate can use the right words. madfloridian Jun 2015 #61

the problem may well be that you've misinterpreted the questions bigtree Jun 2015 #70

The problem is... madfloridian Jun 2015 #83

from where I sit bigtree Jun 2015 #100

Don't assume I have faith in ANY politicians. madfloridian Jun 2015 #105

okay bigtree Jun 2015 #114

Hey, I can't say anything right here anymore. madfloridian Jun 2015 #119

no, you said a great deal right bigtree Jun 2015 #121

+1 Zorra Jun 2015 #77

This is one of the problems with populism........ socialist_n_TN Jun 2015 #43

you've raised a strawman about Carson and his ilk bigtree Jun 2015 #67

But those "real and prescient concerns..." you mentioned ARE ultimately economic........ socialist_n_TN Jun 2015 #146

This quote bothers me. zappaman Jun 2015 #49

Why did you chop off a very crucial part of that quote? Bjorn Against Jun 2015 #106

Well, because honesty wouldn't make for a good smear, of course. /nt Marr Jun 2015 #111

...^ that 840high Jun 2015 #229

Very selective editing there. Autumn Jun 2015 #117

I think the label for the paragraph distorts the context somewhat fishwax Jun 2015 #52

I think he is saying how much policy has an efffect. Afterall, the AA community didn't mmonk Jun 2015 #72

I don't believe at all that he's a 'racist' bigtree Jun 2015 #74

Next up: Cherry-picking intel to make it seem Iraq was behind 9/11. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2015 #80

Trying to attach a (dishonest) meme to Bernie, eh? U4ikLefty Jun 2015 #82

lol.nt Snotcicles Jun 2015 #90

Color a main consideration? That is precisely what he ran on and how we got Ronald Reagan, jtuck004 Jun 2015 #84

Trying some alternative statements... Koinos Jun 2015 #87

Well, he's right HassleCat Jun 2015 #88

My politics aren't based on color...or gender, or wealth, or likeabiltiy, or charisma, or Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2015 #101

Really? Because my life is about gender, race, wealth BainsBane Jun 2015 #201

I vote for issues...like the ones you mentioned. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2015 #202

Then why would you insist none of that matters? BainsBane Jun 2015 #214

I don't respond to RW Buzz either. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2015 #220

Completely unrecommended. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #104

I have two serious questions for you. Admiral Loinpresser Jun 2015 #107

you think any discussion of race is inappropriate right now? bigtree Jun 2015 #118

Your post is indecent. Admiral Loinpresser Jun 2015 #123

no it isn't bigtree Jun 2015 #125

Apparently you didn't read my objection. Admiral Loinpresser Jun 2015 #130

I read it bigtree Jun 2015 #131

This is the perfect time to ask the questions bigtree. William769 Jun 2015 #141

Yep, you have no right BainsBane Jun 2015 #137

"Playing the race card" BainsBane Jun 2015 #135

My understanding is that Sanders sees social and economic justice as inseparable, and Marr Jun 2015 #110

^^THIS -- we have a winnah! nashville_brook Jun 2015 #140

So if the economic infrastructer of racial injustice was done away with racial issues POC face ... uponit7771 Jun 2015 #196

Yep. romanic Jun 2015 #210

I got that back in 1965, along with Black Panthers and SDS associates that moved beyond race n/t bobthedrummer Jun 2015 #113

this is an ugly, ugly thread heaven05 Jun 2015 #115

An incredibly ugly thread. But not one damn thing about it has been surprising. Sanders supporters Number23 Jun 2015 #206

tldr otherone Jun 2015 #116

Do you vote based on color? I don't. arcane1 Jun 2015 #126

most of the issues that I care about center on race bigtree Jun 2015 #127

I was referring to the color of the candidate n/t arcane1 Jun 2015 #128

that's not what I was discussing bigtree Jun 2015 #132

In my view race questions are always a trap daredtowork Jun 2015 #136

I don't vote based on gender or race. I vote for a politician that takes a stand on issues that are Autumn Jun 2015 #138

I don't think Sen Sanders tailors his speech to suit the audience he's talking to tularetom Jun 2015 #139

Meh DesmondFoster Jun 2015 #143

Bernie wasn't talking about the race of the candidate bigtree Jun 2015 #147

I think he makes no sense here but I'm not a Bernie supporter so I won't elaborate. Cha Jun 2015 #149

Just saw this, SusanCalvin Jun 2015 #151

I appreciate your efforts to find something, ANYTHING, with which to smear Bernie Sanders. Maedhros Jun 2015 #153

like this article I just posted? bigtree Jun 2015 #157

I understand your motivations. [n/t] Maedhros Jun 2015 #165

no you don't bigtree Jun 2015 #171

I appreciate your concern. [n/t] Maedhros Jun 2015 #181

no you don't bigtree Jun 2015 #182

I'm sorry, but I don't think you're sincere. Maedhros Jun 2015 #186

you don't know me or anything significant about me bigtree Jun 2015 #187

It's no coincidence that the forum has been deluged with posts accusing Bernie Maedhros Jun 2015 #188

I'm not supporting the Hillary campaign. I have absolutely nothing to do with it. bigtree Jun 2015 #190

Just calling it as I see it. Maedhros Jun 2015 #194

you just did bring it up bigtree Jun 2015 #195

I'm not dictating anything. Maedhros Jun 2015 #222

Way reasonable and you have every right to. I don't think Bernie would be offended that you're Cha Jun 2015 #166

Bernie may be referring to the fact that one of the Republican candidates for the primaries JDPriestly Jun 2015 #154

if that was what he meant bigtree Jun 2015 #159

Honest question, bigotry: Bonobo Jun 2015 #158

malicious bigtree Jun 2015 #160

I think if we are going to cast aspersions, you should expect some kickback, bigtree. Bonobo Jun 2015 #161

I don't think it's going to be sufficient to point to Hillary or anyone else bigtree Jun 2015 #162

If this OP were in a vacuum, I would tend to agree that your points are thoughtful and therefore Bonobo Jun 2015 #163

I'm not a Hillary supporter bigtree Jun 2015 #164

Parsing his words is a line of attack nowadays and it's weak. AtomicKitten Jun 2015 #215

One has to understand that the racism trickles down. raouldukelives Jun 2015 #169

I agree, this sounds like Bernie doesn't have a clear appreciation for the issues affecting POC. DCBob Jun 2015 #170

exactly bigtree Jun 2015 #172

Bernie seems overly focused on the issues of economics. DCBob Jun 2015 #175

one positive thing that I've noticed has occurred bigtree Jun 2015 #176

+1, on issues POC deal with Bernie comes out on the side of common sense justice but on uponit7771 Jun 2015 #197

"Whenever any group can vote in a bloc, and decide the outcome of elections, and it fails ..." DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #173

I hope all of the candidates address the issues you raise because they are extremely important. Vattel Jun 2015 #177

Kick and Recommended ismnotwasm Jun 2015 #178

What he's not comfortable saying, but I will. "Identity Politics" should not be placed above 2banon Jun 2015 #180

Sanders wasn't talking choosing a black or female president bigtree Jun 2015 #184

You mean the identify of others doesn't count BainsBane Jun 2015 #211

Identity politics have been used by TPTB... MellowDem Jun 2015 #183

voters have been voting on interests particular to their lives for as long as there was a vote bigtree Jun 2015 #185

Sure they can... MellowDem Jun 2015 #199

comparing the concerns considered by black voters over issues like discrimination, voting rights bigtree Jun 2015 #200

Talk about reading comprehension... MellowDem Jun 2015 #216

Sanders talked about what voters should base their politics on bigtree Jun 2015 #219

I think he was trying to address... MellowDem Jun 2015 #221

Bingo! I was having hard time articulating pretty much what you just did so clearly. 2banon Jun 2015 #234

This country has not overcome racism. President Obama overcame it to get elected. Let's tell the craigmatic Jun 2015 #217