General Discussion

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

37. Probably because your post involves more than a little wishful thinking without adequate backup

Tue Jun 23, 2015, 12:59 PM

Jun 2015

An extraordinary claim, which in this case involves winning an election how no one has won one before, requires extraordinary evidence/proof/reasoning.

I find the Hillary vs Sanders debate to be pretty simple. We have a candidate who will do well against Republicans, and we have one who head to head is polling terribly against them. And the end result would be virtually identical. The Republicans will hold at least the House of Representatives through 2023 (due to redistricting) which is the majority of the next two Presidential terms, so virtually nothing a President Hillary or Sanders proposes that is remotely transformative is going to pass anyway.

So in Sanders I see huge risk (very likely the election of a Republican and all that would entail, particularly with a Republican congress) for little to no gain.

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Here are my concerns about a Bernie candidacy ... [View all] 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 OP

I'll let the O'Malley team know JustAnotherGen Jun 2015 #1

Actually ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #3

I wouldn't worry about that. I'd worry about Hillary not winning the GE... L0oniX Jun 2015 #2

Care to address my 3 message concerns? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #4

You actually expect any "convincing"? LMFAO L0oniX Jun 2015 #139

So you are not going to take the opportunity to demonstrate your support for Bernie ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #146

Your first point, regarding candidates like Bernie not having enough funding to reach a national sabrina 1 Jun 2015 #184

Thank you for your response ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #185

Isn't HRC winning with liberals and progressives? JaneyVee Jun 2015 #5

Shhh ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #6

LMFAO ...yea so you noticed they all showed up to vote last fall too huh. L0oniX Jun 2015 #138

If progressives, liberals... Yada yada... Adrahil Jun 2015 #7

Perfect Parody. Love it. nt. NCTraveler Jun 2015 #9

Silly. Presidential year voting nothing like off-year voting HERVEPA Jun 2015 #33

It's good to have hopes. Tried that once before back in 2008. L0oniX Jun 2015 #137

I'll try a little. NCTraveler Jun 2015 #8

Fair enough ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #10

K & R,good post Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #133

I must say I'm disappointed ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #11

You haven't posted your one on Hillary yet. NCTraveler Jun 2015 #14

I suspect as much ... Selling vs Trashing! n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #15

I think this is why people are not responding to your OP. n/t demmiblue Jun 2015 #21

??? 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #23

I'm finding better responses from a Bern'd piece of glutin packed toast. L0oniX Jun 2015 #140

For some reason, I keep thinking of Soren Kierkegaard's BainsBane Jun 2015 #26

Kierkegaard ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #48

Or it could be that LWolf Jun 2015 #122

Could be; but, the number of posts on other threads suggests otherwise. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #123

Response in 135, below. LWolf Jun 2015 #136

I can't speak to that, not having been "here," but LWolf Jun 2015 #135

Thank you for your reasoned and reasonable response ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #142

Help me understand, then. LWolf Jun 2015 #162

What is the real concern? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #163

I don't agree LWolf Jun 2015 #172

So what is it that I am unable or unwilling to accept? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #175

I accept that. LWolf Jun 2015 #177

I have very similar concerns about the general election viability of Sanders Gothmog Jun 2015 #12

And sadly ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #17

I am very impressed with your neutrality. SaranchaIsWaiting Jun 2015 #34

I didn't say I was neutral, I said I was undecided ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #49

As have I, and the response were just as nonproductive and contentious as this one. nt procon Jun 2015 #44

See reply #135 GoneOffShore Jun 2015 #144

"It would be nice if sufficient funds could be raised $40 at a time, to fund a national campaign" KamaAina Jun 2015 #13

Not true ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #19

Thanks for your concern. nt Romulox Jun 2015 #16

Thank you for the kick. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #20

Okay. I'm not afraid of your ideas being debated. nt Romulox Jun 2015 #24

It shows. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #47

For the imbalance of funds issue: I think Bernie's many public appearances SaranchaIsWaiting Jun 2015 #18

I don't think so; but, okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #22

Well, that was productive wasn't it. SaranchaIsWaiting Jun 2015 #25

This is his schtick. You pour your heart out, he responds: "Okay. nt" nt Romulox Jun 2015 #27

Thanks for the kick. n/t frylock Jun 2015 #141

Probably because your post involves more than a little wishful thinking without adequate backup stevenleser Jun 2015 #37

As does yours SaranchaIsWaiting Jun 2015 #40

Where is my backup? Polls, prior performance (a virtual tie against Obama who creamed two GOP stevenleser Jun 2015 #41

With all due respect ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #62

Oh, you poor fragile thing ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #54

Oh Okay. This fragile thing will wait for you to grant me an opinion other than yours. SaranchaIsWaiting Jun 2015 #57

Thanks for the kick. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #58

I dont think so either, I travel a bit and many I talk to have still never heard of Bernie randys1 Jun 2015 #35

The TV viewership in Columbus, OH is about 1,000,000 brooklynite Jun 2015 #45

It's not only 5000 a speech, that is the number for people attending. SaranchaIsWaiting Jun 2015 #46

Social media is useful for an active and engaged electorate... brooklynite Jun 2015 #67

It'ls like that old shampoo commercial. Tell someone and they tell someone and so on and so on. SaranchaIsWaiting Jun 2015 #70

I would love for social media to have as much clout as all the billionaires supporting politicians. SaranchaIsWaiting Jun 2015 #113

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2015 #115

The only way he's going to do it, as far as I can see, Ron Green Jun 2015 #28

I have concerns that he won't be able to win a general. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #29

Yep, see my #37 above. nt stevenleser Jun 2015 #38

Well put! hrmjustin Jun 2015 #39

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2015 #116

Well we disagree on this issue. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #119

The only concern is that he's a socialist Matrosov Jun 2015 #30

Start with this fact of American electoral politics: each major party's candidate starts the KingCharlemagne Jun 2015 #31

And so it will come down to turnout. immoderate Jun 2015 #50

I think Sanders' brand of prairie populism can inspire people to vote. I find his message KingCharlemagne Jun 2015 #59

I agree. Bernie's strength is that he is believable. immoderate Jun 2015 #71

This here ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #110

Here's what I'd say Proud Public Servant Jun 2015 #32

Okay. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2015 #36

#3 Raising the Pay for women JustAnotherGen Jun 2015 #52

Both of those measures sound good. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2015 #65

That's my point - JustAnotherGen Jun 2015 #72

Not in your pay range - but other than that, you told the story of my life. freshwest Jun 2015 #95

You posted something to me a few weeks ago JustAnotherGen Jun 2015 #121

You said a mouthful, JAG! greatauntoftriplets Jun 2015 #102

Pure truth, right there, and wise as well. n/t freshwest Jun 2015 #108

You do understand that women also are subject to the minimum wage and drowning with kids to support? TheKentuckian Jun 2015 #150

Oh - I understand that clearly JustAnotherGen Jun 2015 #161

Nobody is solely focused on the minimum wage, wages in general are a huge problem TheKentuckian Jun 2015 #186

Item #1. $40 million leaves him $2.46 billion short of what Clinton will raise. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2015 #56

Well, fuck. Why have elections? Let's just sell offices to the highest bidder. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2015 #66

$2.5 billion is to $40 million... lumberjack_jeff Jun 2015 #73

Just an observation that I raised the same question yesterday... brooklynite Jun 2015 #42

Teddy Roosevelt One_Life_To_Give Jun 2015 #43

You've already made your decision. It's obvious. Dawgs Jun 2015 #51

Thank you for the kick ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #76

If you pick a candidate because they can raise $2.5b to get elected - you're part of the problem. nt lumberjack_jeff Jun 2015 #53

Very well said MissDeeds Jun 2015 #60

word up frylock Jun 2015 #68

Well Let's See.. whatthehey Jun 2015 #55

What is the estimate for the 2016 election? postatomic Jun 2015 #61

Depends on the party HassleCat Jun 2015 #63

I strongly suspect that Democrats ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #77

I think that your questions come far too early, sadoldgirl Jun 2015 #64

here is my case virtualobserver Jun 2015 #69

good response BainsBane Jun 2015 #75

Thank you for your considered response. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #83

I don't think most POC, LGBTs, and women can be manipulated Vattel Jun 2015 #74

Your concerns make no sense... MellowDem Jun 2015 #78

Wow. You're response couldn't be any better. Dawgs Jun 2015 #80

It's definitely the kind of response BainsBane Jun 2015 #81

Well, that was convincing ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #85

Post removed Post removed Jun 2015 #88

Please go away ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #91

I'm trying to convince you... MellowDem Jun 2015 #97

Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #100

I have actually laughed out loud reading this subthread Number23 Jun 2015 #134

Thanks for the kick. n/t frylock Jun 2015 #147

Point one is relevant to the primary, not the general. merrily Jun 2015 #79

I guess the implication with #3 is the groups he named won't vote, or will vote Republican if Bernie smokey nj Jun 2015 #84

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #86

The implication to which I objected is that Bernie does not speak about these groups He has, he is merrily Jun 2015 #87

There is a difference between talking ABOUT and ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #89

As my earlier post said, he has done so when and as appropriate. merrily Jun 2015 #90

Okay. 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #92

Forgot to mention, though I think I have mentioned this before: merrily Jun 2015 #94

Okay; but there's that "ABOUT" word, again. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #96

I've seen you post a lot against Bernie, even against Bernie's supporters. I haven't seen anything merrily Jun 2015 #98

I like his passion. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #99

Yeah. don't be undecided any longer. Passion alone is no reason to vote for a President. merrily Jun 2015 #101

I know this ... that is why I posed the questions I have. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #106

Seriously, if that's all you've found to like about him all this time, just cross him off your list. merrily Jun 2015 #111

like a screen door.. frylock Jun 2015 #149

This message was self-deleted by its author merrily Jun 2015 #93

You are really reaching deep behind you for that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #105

Sometimes, one errs. I self deleted. However, I have told you before that, to my mind, you don't merrily Jun 2015 #109

Being undecided on a matter ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #112

Again, if all you have to date found to like about Bernie is his passon, merrily Jun 2015 #114

Thank you; but, it is MY time to "waste" ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #118

I gave you a considered answer. I think it was Reply 79. Not sure. merrily Jun 2015 #120

I didn't see Post #79 ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #126

Come on now. I hardly expect anyone to swoon over my posts especially you. merrily Jun 2015 #131

Okay. n/t. 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #132

Okay. Thanks. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #128

he isn't running to win JI7 Jun 2015 #82

Moderates Sean23 Jun 2015 #103

He would probably make a number of key SCOTUS appointments... cascadiance Jun 2015 #104

How would he get those presumably very liberal appointments through Congress? pnwmom Jun 2015 #124

Well if they want to get elected by a very fed up public they might think twice about blocking them. cascadiance Jun 2015 #129

I have answers, but will wait to read about the other 2 prospects. Rex Jun 2015 #107

If he can't "mount a national campaign" he won't win the nomination, and the issue will be moot. n/t PoliticAverse Jun 2015 #117

I'm anxious to hear how he would ... That's all. ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #127

I am anxious to see your post on Hillary and will respond the best I can. leftofcool Jun 2015 #125

It's up ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #145

It doesn't matter whether or not you see a clear path to a Sanders win. Read on... DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2015 #130

I completely misread me; but, thanks anyway. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #143

That's a winning strategy BainsBane Jun 2015 #152

But that's okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #154

Too much drama for me. Sorry about the whole disenfranchised voter thing I caused. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2015 #155

You don't cause disenfranchisment BainsBane Jun 2015 #156

Nobody is buying into the undecided voter act. frylock Jun 2015 #159

Well, that is on you! But thanks for the kick, anyhow. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #174

Okay n/t frylock Jun 2015 #176

Thanks for the kick ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #178

Thanks for the kick. n/t frylock Jun 2015 #179

See? I can do this with my eyes closed ... watch! Kick. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #181

Okay n/t frylock Jun 2015 #182

Shh, don't give them free advice. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #158

I think his biggest problems are #1, and also being too far left for a GE. DanTex Jun 2015 #148

Noted: A Constant Hillary Supporter is "concerned" about Bernie's chances. Concern noted. peacebird Jun 2015 #151

Post a single link to a thread in which I have been supportive of/advocated for a HRC's candidacy .. 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #164

I agree, I haven't seen you support anyone. Just working on the factors. n/t freshwest Jul 2015 #187

Regarding #1, I think Bernie is getting enough exposure now goldent Jun 2015 #153

Thank you for your response ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #165

I have similar questions and concerns. lovemydog Jun 2015 #157

Yeah ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #166

I'll try and answer them as best I can. lovemydog Jun 2015 #160

Thank you for your response ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #167

not an active supporter, but weighing in bigtree Jun 2015 #168

I don't think ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #173

Your concerns are noted. n/t tazkcmo Jun 2015 #169

Why do Bernire supporters treat the undecided with such disdain? great white snark Jun 2015 #180

NEWSFLASH: One of DU's most conservative posters has "concerns" about Bernie, leaning Hillary! nt Romulox Jun 2015 #170

Do you have something constructive to add, or are you happy showing your ass? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #171

I just like to skip to the ending of formulaic dramas. nt Romulox Jun 2015 #183

As far as the concerns you say you have, he has addressed them all through actions and words mmonk Jul 2015 #188