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GeorgeGist

(25,570 posts)

111. Per capita spending on healthcare in the US is over $8000/year.

Reply to Recursion (Original post)

Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:52 PM

Jun 2015

I think that should cover it.

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How would you pay for Medicare For All? [View all] Recursion Jun 2015 OP

First you have to eliminate for profit hospitals other than those who cater to rich people. randys1 Jun 2015 #1

...you're going to lower the cost of health care by closing hospitals? N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2015 #161

Dont close them, absorb them and make them part of the system, unless the owner randys1 Jun 2015 #179

Like every other developed nation. Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #2

I've specifically not done that Recursion Jun 2015 #4

Take the current total cost of providing insurance outside of medicare. Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #7

Now you're making the ridiculous assumption that usage won't go up Recursion Jun 2015 #8

It is not clear at all that discouraging people from using health services reduces costs Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #14

It costs $750/mo because they're OLD! Start a thread asking each DUer their average monthly medical FourScore Jul 2015 #196

I pointed out that problem up thread. The op insists that despite using the 750 figure to Warren Stupidity Jul 2015 #197

New Yorker had an excellent article in 2005 debunking this moral hazard theory about usage suffragette Jun 2015 #18

If usage doesn't go up what's the point? Recursion Jun 2015 #29

The point is more people having access to actual health care and them being able to access suffragette Jun 2015 #38

Insurance companies, for all their flaws, are very good at predicting what things will cost Recursion Jun 2015 #97

I think they're good at maximizing their profits, at the expense suffragette Jun 2015 #123

And paying obscene salaries to top executives. hifiguy Jun 2015 #126

Exactly so. As long as it's a profit generator for these executives, they'll fight suffragette Jun 2015 #128

You can have co-pays and still have Medicare for all. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #156

A system that emphasizes health rather than quarterly earnings would be an improvement. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2015 #145

I hate waiting in doctor's offices. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #158

I'd prefer people seek health care Aerows Jun 2015 #92

Huh? I want people to seek health care, but I recognize it costs money Recursion Jun 2015 #95

If we just left people to die that's one thing, it probably would be cheaper to do that Fumesucker Jun 2015 #133

But is that *actually* more expensive? Recursion Jun 2015 #134

Why do greedy people gamble? JDPriestly Jun 2015 #160

Is there a single payer program in Europe? Recursion Jun 2015 #167

This may help Hestia Jun 2015 #182

I suppose UK could be called single payer, though that's not commonly done Recursion Jun 2015 #184

A big challenge in our healthcare system if care for the mentally JDPriestly Jun 2015 #157

Some European countries use a lot more nurse practitioners than JDPriestly Jun 2015 #154

You of course, have objective data to validate your allegation, yes? LanternWaste Jun 2015 #189

Not only 20% profit eliminated, but single payer is more cost efficient on point Jun 2015 #94

I'm trying to keep it simple as possible as the op is determined to prove it can't work. Warren Stupidity Jun 2015 #115

Gotcha. Your initial point is sufficient, but there are additional arguments in reserve! :-) on point Jun 2015 #119

Not this again. It has been explained over and over. Cleita Jun 2015 #3

Most of the money going to insurance companies comes from employers, not workers Recursion Jun 2015 #6

Yes you raise the payroll tax and the employers, relieved of the Cleita Jun 2015 #10

This would make low-wage jobs more expensive for employers Recursion Jun 2015 #12

Yes. For once they are going to have to pay up. Incidentally, back in the day Cleita Jun 2015 #13

Or they just automate a few more jobs Travis_0004 Jun 2015 #140

They can. They already have. My job has pretty much been automated across Cleita Jun 2015 #141

You do realize that you're on the 'better people die.... daleanime Jun 2015 #91

No, and accusing anyone who talks seriously about how to pay for it of that Recursion Jun 2015 #186

Don't forget the secondary insurance yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #19

They could do it without the secondary insurance and give full coverage. Cleita Jun 2015 #23

That would be an interesting way to do it yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #24

France has a 30% copay with supplementary private insurance after that Recursion Jun 2015 #27

I want something like Canada and 70% do, however, when France crafted their plan, Cleita Jun 2015 #47

It is a valid question. There is no single solution, and it has to be coordinated to be successful. still_one Jun 2015 #5

Raise taxes on the extremely wealthy people. eShirl Jun 2015 #9

A dedicated levy, or a surtax into the general fund? Recursion Jun 2015 #11

I thought we were doing that to cover the cost of college yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #20

They own most of the wealth in the world. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #44

World? We are talking US yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #69

If not, their tax rate is ridiculously low for an advanced Western country, and needs to come up. eShirl Jun 2015 #84

The same way. Adding younger healthier people would bring medical costs down. mmonk Jun 2015 #15

How much? If it's not $750, roughly what is it? (nt) Recursion Jun 2015 #16

Elderly pay around 350 a month yeoman6987 Jun 2015 #21

$750. The difference is made up by the trust fund Recursion Jun 2015 #25

Your points do not invalidate mine. mmonk Jun 2015 #42

Right but the money has to come from somewhere. Recursion Jun 2015 #46

Garnish your wages or maybe volunteer them aspirant Jun 2015 #81

Give up subsidizing nuclear weapons? mnhtnbb Jun 2015 #17

A deduction, like SS. HooptieWagon Jun 2015 #22

The same way SS is funded. Vinca Jun 2015 #26

Wait. What does this have to do with for-profit hospitals? Recursion Jun 2015 #28

Medicare is much more efficient at prosecuting fraud than insurance companies csziggy Jun 2015 #114

Insurance companies don't care how much they pay providers? Recursion Jun 2015 #116

If everyone is covered by the same system, it's much easier to contain costs. Vinca Jun 2015 #122

Cut the military budget in half and realocate the money. Lint Head Jun 2015 #30

Which programs do you want to cut? (nt) Recursion Jun 2015 #31

What *military spending* could be cut? Marr Jun 2015 #53

Yes. We spend 800 times more on the military than all Lint Head Jun 2015 #192

All of them. nt truebluegreen Jun 2015 #58

+100! Lint Head Jun 2015 #194

Even if we were to do that, that probably wouldn't cover it. Adrahil Jun 2015 #177

Across the board. Lint Head Jun 2015 #193

A tax that would save every American real money Stinky The Clown Jun 2015 #32

Most of us don't pay 750/month for insurance Recursion Jun 2015 #33

Where did $750 come from? Stinky The Clown Jun 2015 #48

$750 is the monthly premium for part A and part B Recursion Jun 2015 #52

...for the least healthy portion of the population, just by virtue of age. truebluegreen Jun 2015 #62

So, how much less do you expect this to be? Recursion Jun 2015 #76

You are asking the wrong person, truebluegreen Jun 2015 #86

I would agree with that - back-of-the-napkin-wise. Stinky The Clown Jun 2015 #124

Some facts Hestia Jun 2015 #183

Oddly, if you divide the $9000 per person the US spends on health care csziggy Jun 2015 #118

Payroll or income tax, basically. DanTex Jun 2015 #34

Well, it matters to the employee and the employer... Recursion Jun 2015 #98

According to the standard economic theory (which I think is accurate in this case), DanTex Jun 2015 #109

Single pool; single payer MineralMan Jun 2015 #35

Why can nobody give a number here? Recursion Jun 2015 #40

The reason there are no numbers is that there is not MineralMan Jun 2015 #45

Vermont calculated it taught_me_patience Jun 2015 #65

Why do you expect us to have a number you don't have? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #49

None of us here is even close to competent to figure this out. MineralMan Jun 2015 #51

I actually think there are probably plenty of folks who could do a competent job, given the data Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #54

How can you advocate a policy you have no numbers on? Recursion Jun 2015 #55

Because we're already paying for it anyhow. MineralMan Jun 2015 #64

I advocate not going 95 mph on the highway. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #82

again, you are using the cost for elderly and disabled. For younger people, it's closer to zero a merrily Jun 2015 #36

Why is it so hard to get a damn number here? Recursion Jun 2015 #37

It's impossible to say without doing the calculations, and MineralMan Jun 2015 #41

What the hell are we talking about then? Recursion Jun 2015 #43

Frankly, it's not ready for primetime. MineralMan Jun 2015 #50

And thus you reveal your true purpose tkmorris Jun 2015 #72

Single payer is very rare among industrialized countries Recursion Jun 2015 #73

You got a number in my prior post. Health care for most 22 year old costs next to nothing a year. merrily Jun 2015 #56

Because I want to know how much less it will be Recursion Jun 2015 #57

YOU want to know how much less it will be, so I have to tell you? merrily Jun 2015 #61

Because it is really expensive, as Vermont found out taught_me_patience Jun 2015 #66

That's about $575/person/mo taught_me_patience Jun 2015 #70

Was the VA going to keep operating in VT? Recursion Jun 2015 #74

Current spending on healthcare in the US is around $3 trillion. bornskeptic Jun 2015 #162

Other nations spend much less and get much better outcomes. merrily Jun 2015 #163

This article is a few years old. However, aside from inflation, I don't think merrily Jun 2015 #165

We spend SO MUCH on end of life care. n/t Adrahil Jun 2015 #178

Let's see, how can we raise some money... Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #39

$750/mo per person? Seems like a lot. Adrahil Jun 2015 #59

The Medicare population is mostly old Recursion Jun 2015 #89

I dunno... maybe that's right. Adrahil Jun 2015 #99

Medicare doesn't cover long-term and end of life care, and the $750 doesn't include drugs Recursion Jun 2015 #100

My estimate came in higher than your number. Adrahil Jun 2015 #104

Other countries are a lot less heroic with some interventions Recursion Jun 2015 #106

You have extremely inexpensive insurance then. bornskeptic Jun 2015 #164

I was Wrongy McWrongikins. Adrahil Jun 2015 #175

What we're going to paying pharmaceutical megalopolis those and their off-shore money should, WHO orpupilofnature57 Jun 2015 #60

I'll just leave this here gollygee Jun 2015 #63

Sad fact is, if you cut out the overhead -- which won't be easy -- the resultant premium or taxes Hoyt Jun 2015 #67

I find myself in broad agreement with you. Adrahil Jun 2015 #110

stop letting repugs steal money for their corporate masters samsingh Jun 2015 #68

Ding..ding...ding! Cleita Jun 2015 #79

I would implement all of these changes LonePirate Jun 2015 #71

Thanks Recursion Jun 2015 #83

Seperate line item federal tax on income. NCTraveler Jun 2015 #75

Interesting. Most of our other social insurance is funded regressively Recursion Jun 2015 #78

Stop robbing from the people to fund fake for-profit wars... polichick Jun 2015 #77

Lifting the laughably low cap on taxable earnings is a start Warpy Jun 2015 #80

If wages had kept up with productivity we wouldn't have many problems Recursion Jun 2015 #85

Yes, the PTB kept wages low because they were afraid of inflation Warpy Jun 2015 #107

The same way that it is done in Canada. guillaumeb Jun 2015 #87

Canada also has premiums in some provinces Recursion Jun 2015 #88

I did mention the B.C. premium/surcharge. guillaumeb Jun 2015 #93

So you're talking about (roughly) a 10% tax increase Recursion Jun 2015 #96

Plus so much depends on the wording. guillaumeb Jun 2015 #102

And most of us have no idea how much our employers contribute to our insurance Recursion Jun 2015 #103

The more you earn the more you pay Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2015 #90

Cut the military budget in half for one. Kalidurga Jun 2015 #101

So Medicare would be like a Federal public option there? Recursion Jun 2015 #105

Yes, exactly Kalidurga Jun 2015 #108

Per capita spending on healthcare in the US is over $8000/year. GeorgeGist Jun 2015 #111

But it's not the case that every person is spending $8000 Recursion Jun 2015 #112

We as a nation are already paying for health insurance csziggy Jun 2015 #113

Medicare for all doesn't touch the providers' profit, which is where I think the problem is Recursion Jun 2015 #117

Something similar to the way all the other industrialized countries of the world do it. nt Zorra Jun 2015 #120

That's about 50 different ways, each with their own pros and cons (nt) Recursion Jun 2015 #121

Excellent post, but you aren't going to get many to engage with it. Yo_Mama Jun 2015 #125

Quite the comment, for being the 125th. WinkyDink Jun 2015 #130

12% is what I keep coming up with Recursion Jun 2015 #132

I spend more than that for health insurance JEB Jun 2015 #136

Your insurance costs 12% of your gross pay? Recursion Jun 2015 #138

Vermont couldn't implement single payer for that reason. joshcryer Jun 2015 #144

Before really proposing national health care one needs to produce ways to pay for Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #127

Is the Defense budget "a designated levy"? See how it can work now? WinkyDink Jun 2015 #129

No, which is why it's a political football and the Army gets howitzers it doesn't want Recursion Jun 2015 #131

The Federal government is already spending 1.1 Trillion annually Paulie Jun 2015 #135

So $1.1 trillion covers 1/3 or so of the population Recursion Jun 2015 #137

Plus the money currently being spent on private insurance Paulie Jun 2015 #139

.003% transaction tax on every $100 stock trade riderinthestorm Jun 2015 #142

How about one Trident missile out of the military budget? or even two? Hekate Jun 2015 #143

How do we pay for the system we have now? It costs 17% of gdp. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2015 #146

That money is not being used efficiently for health care. Cleita Jun 2015 #147

Rainbows. Rex Jun 2015 #148

First, we do not collect a voluntary premium. We make it a tax. McCamy Taylor Jun 2015 #149

Canada and France have very different systems. We can't copy both Recursion Jun 2015 #150

I'd let the Libertarians decide JonLP24 Jun 2015 #151

Instead of paying your insurance premium to a private company, JDPriestly Jun 2015 #152

All my insurance has been nonprofit except one Recursion Jun 2015 #168

As a society, we are already paying for Medicare for All, or close to it. merrily Jun 2015 #153

Really dtupid question, given that we pay twice per capita what other developed countries pay eridani Jun 2015 #155

Norway spends more than us per capita Recursion Jun 2015 #169

If you want Medicare Insurance JustAnotherGen Jun 2015 #159

Precisely what the fuck is your problem with everyone having access to decent health care? 99Forever Jun 2015 #166

Precisely what the fuck is your problem with paying for Single Payer? Recursion Jun 2015 #170

I told you how to pay for it. 99Forever Jun 2015 #171

Nothing. I'm for it Recursion Jun 2015 #172

And I answered it. 99Forever Jun 2015 #173

He's trying to be this board's "freakonomics" guy. It doesn't work very well. nt Romulox Jun 2015 #181

+1. He's blowing by answers up thread. I proposed a financial transaction tax (FTT) riderinthestorm Jun 2015 #188

Tariffs B Calm Jun 2015 #174

Take all the money we spend bombing and killing WDIM Jun 2015 #176

Like every other developed country on the planet. Next silly question? nt Romulox Jun 2015 #180

That's about 50 different ways, each with their own pros and cons Recursion Jun 2015 #185

None of which are possible here, we are to be assured! We get your schtick. nt Romulox Jun 2015 #190

Most of them are, but advocates need to get behind one Recursion Jun 2015 #191

Tax the rich. Orsino Jun 2015 #187

I don't think my generation will get a chance to retire before 70. We might as well get this we'll craigmatic Jun 2015 #195