General Discussion

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)

86. So you are with the Troika. Fine.

Mon Jul 6, 2015, 08:47 AM

Jul 2015

I'm with Krugman:

"Of course, that’s not the way the creditors would have you see it. Their story, echoed by many in the business press, is that the failure of their attempt to bully Greece into acquiescence was a triumph of irrationality and irresponsibility over sound technocratic advice.

But the campaign of bullying — the attempt to terrify Greeks by cutting off bank financing and threatening general chaos, all with the almost open goal of pushing the current leftist government out of office — was a shameful moment in a Europe that claims to believe in democratic principles. It would have set a terrible precedent if that campaign had succeeded, even if the creditors were making sense.

What’s more, they weren’t. The truth is that Europe’s self-styled technocrats are like medieval doctors who insisted on bleeding their patients — and when their treatment made the patients sicker, demanded even more bleeding."

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Highlight:

Buffoon leaders... and how we milked the EU, by veteran Greek columnist and commentator [View all] Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 OP

Taki calls Puerto Ricans "semi-savages", thinks Kenya is called "bongo-bongo land" a Ichingcarpenter Jul 2015 #1

Whatever his other RW proclivities may be, his historical perspective as a Greek Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #2

He's a rightwing elitist asshole Ichingcarpenter Jul 2015 #4

He'd probably support a coup by the military under the aegis that the military KingCharlemagne Jul 2015 #14

Being a regular Spectator writer is yet another problem with him muriel_volestrangler Jul 2015 #20

Interesting...I got the feeling he was pretty far off to the right when I saw the rest of his CV, Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #28

Spoilt racist playboy who writes to annoy people with less money muriel_volestrangler Jul 2015 #31

I saw something about the scion of the family - looked to be a chip off the old block. Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #34

Major unrec. The author is a notorious right-wing provocateur. RufusTFirefly Jul 2015 #3

Another 1%er that expects austerity to affect everyone but him. hobbit709 Jul 2015 #5

did you read the article? snooper2 Jul 2015 #90

Did you read the posts about who the guy is? hobbit709 Jul 2015 #94

yep, but he blames center left and center right, and makes some good points snooper2 Jul 2015 #96

He defends the neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party - you can't trust anything he says to be true muriel_volestrangler Jul 2015 #102

Leaders lead. Cowards call for a referendum. randome Jul 2015 #6

So according to you Iceland is run by cowards? hobbit709 Jul 2015 #7

So according to you we should call for a popular vote on Iran nuke negotiations? randome Jul 2015 #12

... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #8

Oligarch vs democracy?... he should lead by dictatorship Ichingcarpenter Jul 2015 #9

Yes. Very illuminating RufusTFirefly Jul 2015 #10

Tsipras was 'hired' to fix a problem. Putting the problem up for a referendum is saying... randome Jul 2015 #13

Or, he's ensuring a consensus on whatever comes next... JHB Jul 2015 #40

He can't fix a problem some people don't want to have fixed: truebluegreen Jul 2015 #76

That person Aerows Jul 2015 #22

Tsipras campaigned and was elected on a platform that said there would be no KingCharlemagne Jul 2015 #15

Then he should have been honest in saying he was unable to do that. randome Jul 2015 #18

Um, putting the Troika's ultimatum up for a referendum is exactly the way Tsipras is KingCharlemagne Jul 2015 #19

The Greeks were double-crossed RufusTFirefly Jul 2015 #25

Beautifully put. Doesn't seem to matter how many times we say it or KingCharlemagne Jul 2015 #39

For those of us who live on the Euro economy and receive our Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #35

To folks who view this as an ideological war, they don't care about you. Sad to say. stevenleser Jul 2015 #55

And the troika only cares that it does get its way. truebluegreen Jul 2015 #78

The troika is not posting here on DU and their misdeeds don't absolve DUers of the need to have stevenleser Jul 2015 #85

"There are zero DUers who are in favor of austerity, Z-e-r-o" truebluegreen Jul 2015 #87

I interpret it as being against Syriza and being against how Greece operated prior to 2010. stevenleser Jul 2015 #92

I have asked. truebluegreen Jul 2015 #97

So you are saying one can only be pro-Syriza or pro-Austerity? For one thing Syriza has no stevenleser Jul 2015 #99

Simply put, austerity is not a plan either. truebluegreen Jul 2015 #101

That doesn't excuse Syriza for not having a plan. No one here will argue in favor of austerity. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #103

You keep saying that: it isn't true. truebluegreen Jul 2015 #107

Meanwhile, anonymous internet posters know all about bravery. n/t brentspeak Jul 2015 #24

I don't disagree MFrohike Jul 2015 #74

Varoufakis and Tsipiras are not doing Greece any good. DFW Jul 2015 #11

The Greek people and honest politicians did not commit the fraud fasttense Jul 2015 #17

They don't even know what they're voting for. DFW Jul 2015 #21

Excellent analysis, DFW... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #38

I have a few Greek friends as neighbors or near neighbors DFW Jul 2015 #41

I agree with you Munificence Jul 2015 #23

I don't normally jump into SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #26

As a matter of fact I am Munificence Jul 2015 #30

You are really full of it. You're blaming whole generations? Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #43

Ok then who is to blame then? Munificence Jul 2015 #47

To quote you: SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #51

Not all of us are Reagan Democrats ... GeorgeGist Jul 2015 #50

You're poorly named. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #104

he is full of baloney elehhhhna Jul 2015 #54

over 25% of the people work for the state with very generous pensions, retire at 50 snooper2 Jul 2015 #93

That's Greece, and that's certainly stupid. SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #108

"Our retirees and anyone over 50 years old in both countries have lived well beyond their means." DFW Jul 2015 #45

I think it would be accurate to say that they lived beyond the means of their government mythology Jul 2015 #61

Retirees and other "old people" are just as screwed as you are. alarimer Jul 2015 #84

No, Munificence Jul 2015 #106

This is precisely what I've been trying to help non-Europeans to understand... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #36

You and I both live here, speak local languages DFW Jul 2015 #46

Definitely more difficult than a mere language barrier...more like cultural cross-purposes. Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #57

I run into that a lot when I'm back in Texas DFW Jul 2015 #58

I don't even bother when I make one of my rare trips back to Nebraska... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #60

Top economists see 'No' vote as Greece's least-worst choice RufusTFirefly Jul 2015 #16

Like I said somewhere else: stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #33

So, since you seem to be against the referendum and truebluegreen Jul 2015 #79

This message was self-deleted by its author Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #82

Remain where...in their tax-evading, welfare abusing la-la land? Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #83

So you are with the Troika. Fine. truebluegreen Jul 2015 #86

I'm with the millions of working-class Europeans, Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #88

So you are with the Troika truebluegreen Jul 2015 #89

If you want to persist in conflating the millions of Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #91

Not my Troika, truebluegreen Jul 2015 #105

If they go back to the drachma 1939 Jul 2015 #98

Looks headed that way...like somebody said elsewhere: Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #100

Greece is unrecoverable in it's current form madville Jul 2015 #27

... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #29

And this is going to be one Aerows Jul 2015 #32

"It's the ones who are currently dominating the Euro that are the most strident in rebuking Greece" Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #37

France and Germany lose? Where did that come from? DFW Jul 2015 #44

Sounds reasonable to me. SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #52

That would be all well and good strategery blunder Jul 2015 #75

^^this^^ truebluegreen Jul 2015 #80

The Germans never demanded that the debt be shunted on the backs of the poor DFW Jul 2015 #81

You should be embarrassed to post this tripe. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #42

+1 Electric Monk Jul 2015 #48

As 'semi-savage' I agree. I think we need to get David Duke's take on things Guy Whitey Corngood Jul 2015 #49

Thank you for your input... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #59

those of this type do one service DonCoquixote Jul 2015 #53

The Euro will become the poster child for why... roamer65 Jul 2015 #56

... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #62

You are in France Aerows Jul 2015 #63

Nobody, least of all French pensioners like myself, has anything to gain from Greece's Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #64

I think the decision by Greece Aerows Jul 2015 #65

So pleased that you are pleased... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #66

This is exactly the disconnect Aerows Jul 2015 #67

Like I said... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #68

Please Aerows Jul 2015 #69

Are you seriously serious? Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #70

If you have a job Aerows Jul 2015 #71

Thank you for your sage counsel. I DO meditate daily and have done for 25 years... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #73

Also, FWIW, being single with no dependents, I pay taxes through the nose and do not resent it. Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #72

Are you going to start shipping them toilet paper in a few months? snooper2 Jul 2015 #95

The Daily Mail? Are you fucking kidding? hatrack Jul 2015 #77