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In reply to the discussion: Wake up folks: nobody with power gives a fuck about you. [View all]OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)78. "most issues"
How 'bout torture?
Ah, but who cares about that? Those human beings enemy combatants are probably all terrorists anyway, so it's a good thing that Obama has decided to hold them indefinitely, even if there is no evidence to convict them of a crime.
They can spend the rest of their lives in Guantanamo or Bagram while the military special ops waterboards them with Obama's love.
Are you an apologist for torture?
Obama called on the former general chairman of the RNC to stop Spain's investigation of US torture crimes.
WikiLeaks: How U.S. tried to stop Spain's torture probe
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/25/105786/wikileaks-how-us-tried-to-stop.html
MIAMI It was three months into Barack Obama's presidency, and the administration -- under pressure to do something about alleged abuses in Bush-era interrogation policies -- turned to a Florida senator to deliver a sensitive message to Spain:
Don't indict former President George W. Bush's legal brain trust for alleged torture in the treatment of war on terror detainees, warned Mel Martinez on one of his frequent trips to Madrid. Doing so would chill U.S.-Spanish relations.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/25/105786/wikileaks-how-us-tried-to-stop.html
MIAMI It was three months into Barack Obama's presidency, and the administration -- under pressure to do something about alleged abuses in Bush-era interrogation policies -- turned to a Florida senator to deliver a sensitive message to Spain:
Don't indict former President George W. Bush's legal brain trust for alleged torture in the treatment of war on terror detainees, warned Mel Martinez on one of his frequent trips to Madrid. Doing so would chill U.S.-Spanish relations.
US embassy cables: Don't pursue Guantánamo criminal case, says Spanish attorney general
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH
6. (C) As reported in SEPTEL, Senator Mel Martinez, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, met Acting FM Angel Lossada during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 15. Martinez and the Charge underscored that the prosecutions would not be understood or accepted in the U.S. and would have an enormous impact on the bilateral relationship. The Senator also asked if the GOS had thoroughly considered the source of the material on which the allegations were based to ensure the charges were not based on misinformation or factually wrong statements. Lossada responded that the GOS recognized all of the complications presented by universal jurisdiction, but that the independence of the judiciary and the process must be respected. The GOS would use all appropriate legal tools in the matter. While it did not have much margin to operate, the GOS would advise Conde Pumpido that the official administration position was that the GOS was "not in accord with the National Court." Lossada reiterated to Martinez that the executive branch of government could not close any judicial investigation and urged that this case not affect the overall relationship, adding that our interests were much broader, and that the universal jurisdiction case should not be viewed as a reflection of the GOS position.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH
6. (C) As reported in SEPTEL, Senator Mel Martinez, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, met Acting FM Angel Lossada during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 15. Martinez and the Charge underscored that the prosecutions would not be understood or accepted in the U.S. and would have an enormous impact on the bilateral relationship. The Senator also asked if the GOS had thoroughly considered the source of the material on which the allegations were based to ensure the charges were not based on misinformation or factually wrong statements. Lossada responded that the GOS recognized all of the complications presented by universal jurisdiction, but that the independence of the judiciary and the process must be respected. The GOS would use all appropriate legal tools in the matter. While it did not have much margin to operate, the GOS would advise Conde Pumpido that the official administration position was that the GOS was "not in accord with the National Court." Lossada reiterated to Martinez that the executive branch of government could not close any judicial investigation and urged that this case not affect the overall relationship, adding that our interests were much broader, and that the universal jurisdiction case should not be viewed as a reflection of the GOS position.
Judd Gregg, Obama's Republican nominee for Commerce secretary, didn't like the investigations either.
US embassy cables: Don't pursue Guantánamo criminal case, says Spanish attorney general
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH
4. (C) As reported in REF A, Senator Judd Gregg, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, raised the issue with Luis Felipe Fernandez de la Pena, Director General Policy Director for North America and Europe during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 13. Senator Gregg expressed his concern about the case. Fernandez de la Pena lamented this development, adding that judicial independence notwithstanding, the MFA disagreed with efforts to apply universal jurisdiction in such cases.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH
4. (C) As reported in REF A, Senator Judd Gregg, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, raised the issue with Luis Felipe Fernandez de la Pena, Director General Policy Director for North America and Europe during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 13. Senator Gregg expressed his concern about the case. Fernandez de la Pena lamented this development, adding that judicial independence notwithstanding, the MFA disagreed with efforts to apply universal jurisdiction in such cases.
Why the aversion? To protect Bushco, of course!
US embassy cables: Spanish prosecutor weighs Guantánamo criminal case against US officials
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/200177
The fact that this complaint targets former Administration legal officials may reflect a "stepping-stone" strategy designed to pave the way for complaints against even more senior officials.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/200177
The fact that this complaint targets former Administration legal officials may reflect a "stepping-stone" strategy designed to pave the way for complaints against even more senior officials.
Eric Holder got the message.
Holder Says He Will Not Permit the Criminalization of Policy Differences
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7410267&page=1
As lawmakers call for hearings and debate brews over forming commissions to examine the Bush administration's policies on harsh interrogation techniques, Attorney General Eric Holder confirmed to a House panel that intelligence officials who relied on legal advice from the Bush-era Justice Department would not be prosecuted.
"Those intelligence community officials who acted reasonably and in good faith and in reliance on Department of Justice opinions are not going to be prosecuted," he told members of a House Appropriations Subcommittee, reaffirming the White House sentiment. "It would not be fair, in my view, to bring such prosecutions."
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7410267&page=1
As lawmakers call for hearings and debate brews over forming commissions to examine the Bush administration's policies on harsh interrogation techniques, Attorney General Eric Holder confirmed to a House panel that intelligence officials who relied on legal advice from the Bush-era Justice Department would not be prosecuted.
"Those intelligence community officials who acted reasonably and in good faith and in reliance on Department of Justice opinions are not going to be prosecuted," he told members of a House Appropriations Subcommittee, reaffirming the White House sentiment. "It would not be fair, in my view, to bring such prosecutions."
CIA Exhales: 99 Out of 101 Torture Cases Dropped
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/06/cia-exhales-99-out-of-101-torture-cases-dropped/
This is how one of the darkest chapters in U.S. counterterrorism ends: with practically every instance of suspected CIA torture dodging criminal scrutiny. Its one of the greatest gifts the Justice Department could have given the CIA as David Petraeus takes over the agency.
Over two years after Attorney General Eric Holder instructed a special prosecutor, John Durham, to preliminar(ily) review whether CIA interrogators unlawfully tortured detainees in their custody, Holder announced on Thursday afternoon that hell pursue criminal investigations in precisely two out of 101 cases of suspected detainee abuse. Some of them turned out not to have involved CIA officials after all. Both of the cases that move on to a criminal phase involved the death in custody of detainees, Holder said.
But just because theres a further criminal inquiry doesnt necessarily mean there will be any charges brought against CIA officials involved in those deaths. If Holders decision on Thursday doesnt actually end the Justice Departments review of torture in CIA facilities, it brings it awfully close, as outgoing CIA Director Leon Panetta noted.
On this, my last day as Director, I welcome the news that the broader inquiries are behind us, Panetta wrote to the CIA staff on Thursday. We are now finally about to close this chapter of our Agencys history.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/06/cia-exhales-99-out-of-101-torture-cases-dropped/
This is how one of the darkest chapters in U.S. counterterrorism ends: with practically every instance of suspected CIA torture dodging criminal scrutiny. Its one of the greatest gifts the Justice Department could have given the CIA as David Petraeus takes over the agency.
Over two years after Attorney General Eric Holder instructed a special prosecutor, John Durham, to preliminar(ily) review whether CIA interrogators unlawfully tortured detainees in their custody, Holder announced on Thursday afternoon that hell pursue criminal investigations in precisely two out of 101 cases of suspected detainee abuse. Some of them turned out not to have involved CIA officials after all. Both of the cases that move on to a criminal phase involved the death in custody of detainees, Holder said.
But just because theres a further criminal inquiry doesnt necessarily mean there will be any charges brought against CIA officials involved in those deaths. If Holders decision on Thursday doesnt actually end the Justice Departments review of torture in CIA facilities, it brings it awfully close, as outgoing CIA Director Leon Panetta noted.
On this, my last day as Director, I welcome the news that the broader inquiries are behind us, Panetta wrote to the CIA staff on Thursday. We are now finally about to close this chapter of our Agencys history.
CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE
and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading
Treatment or Punishment
http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html
Part I
Article 1
For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
This article is without prejudice to any international instrument or national legislation which does or may contain provisions of wider application.
Article 2
Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.
Article 3
No State Party shall expel, return ("refouler"
or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture.
For the purpose of determining whether there are such grounds, the competent authorities shall take into account all relevant considerations including, where applicable, the existence in the State concerned of a consistent pattern of gross, flagrant or mass violations of human rights.
Article 4
1. Each State Party shall ensure that all acts of torture are offences under its criminal law. The same shall apply to an attempt to commit torture and to an act by any person which constitutes complicity or participation in torture.
2. Each State Party shall make these offences punishable by appropriate penalties which take into account their grave nature.
Article 5
1. Each State Party shall take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offences referred to in article 4 in the following cases:
1. When the offences are committed in any territory under its jurisdiction or on board a ship or aircraft registered in that State;
2. When the alleged offender is a national of that State;
3. When the victim was a national of that State if that State considers it appropriate.
2. Each State Party shall likewise take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over such offences in cases where the alleged offender is present in any territory under its jurisdiction and it does not extradite him pursuant to article 8 to any of the States mentioned in Paragraph 1 of this article.
3. This Convention does not exclude any criminal jurisdiction exercised in accordance with internal law.
Article 6
1. Upon being satisfied, after an examination of information available to it, that the circumstances so warrant, any State Party in whose territory a person alleged to have committed any offence referred to in article 4 is present, shall take him into custody or take other legal measures to ensure his presence. The custody and other legal measures shall be as provided in the law of that State but may be continued only for such time as is necessary to enable any criminal or extradition proceedings to be instituted.
2. Such State shall immediately make a preliminary inquiry into the facts.
3. Any person in custody pursuant to paragraph 1 of this article shall be assisted in communicating immediately with the nearest appropriate representative of the State of which he is a national, or, if he is a stateless person, to the representative of the State where he usually resides.
4. When a State, pursuant to this article, has taken a person into custody, it shall immediately notify the States referred to in article 5, paragraph 1, of the fact that such person is in custody and of the circumstances which warrant his detention. The State which makes the preliminary inquiry contemplated in paragraph 2 of this article shall promptly report its findings to the said State and shall indicate whether it intends to exercise jurisdiction.
Article 7
1. The State Party in territory under whose jurisdiction a person alleged to have committed any offence referred to in article 4 is found, shall in the cases contemplated in article 5, if it does not extradite him, submit the case to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution.
2. These authorities shall take their decision in the same manner as in the case of any ordinary offence of a serious nature under the law of that State. In the cases referred to in article 5, paragraph 2, the standards of evidence required for prosecution and conviction shall in no way be less stringent than those which apply in the cases referred to in article 5, paragraph 1.
3. Any person regarding whom proceedings are brought in connection with any of the offences referred to in article 4 shall be guaranteed fair treatment at all stages of the proceedings.
Article 8
1. The offences referred to in article 4 shall be deemed to be included as extraditable offences in any extradition treaty existing between States Parties. States Parties undertake to include such offences as extraditable offences in every extradition treaty to be concluded between them.
2. If a State Party which makes extradition conditional on the existence of a treaty receives a request for extradition from another State Party with which it has no extradition treaty, it may consider this Convention as the legal basis for extradition in respect of such offenses. Extradition shall be subject to the other conditions provided by the law of the requested State.
3. States Parties which do not make extradition conditional on the existence of a treaty shall recognize such offences as extraditable offences between themselves subject to the conditions provided by the law of the requested state.
4. Such offences shall be treated, for the purpose of extradition between States Parties, as if they had been committed not only in the place in which they occurred but also in the territories of the States required to establish their jurisdiction in accordance with article 5, paragraph 1.
Article 9
1. States Parties shall afford one another the greatest measure of assistance in connection with civil proceedings brought in respect of any of the offences referred to in article 4, including the supply of all evidence at their disposal necessary for the proceedings.
2. States Parties shall carry out their obligations under paragraph 1 of this article in conformity with any treaties on mutual judicial assistance that may exist between them.
http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html
Part I
Article 1
For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
This article is without prejudice to any international instrument or national legislation which does or may contain provisions of wider application.
Article 2
Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.
Article 3
No State Party shall expel, return ("refouler"
For the purpose of determining whether there are such grounds, the competent authorities shall take into account all relevant considerations including, where applicable, the existence in the State concerned of a consistent pattern of gross, flagrant or mass violations of human rights.
Article 4
1. Each State Party shall ensure that all acts of torture are offences under its criminal law. The same shall apply to an attempt to commit torture and to an act by any person which constitutes complicity or participation in torture.
2. Each State Party shall make these offences punishable by appropriate penalties which take into account their grave nature.
Article 5
1. Each State Party shall take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offences referred to in article 4 in the following cases:
1. When the offences are committed in any territory under its jurisdiction or on board a ship or aircraft registered in that State;
2. When the alleged offender is a national of that State;
3. When the victim was a national of that State if that State considers it appropriate.
2. Each State Party shall likewise take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over such offences in cases where the alleged offender is present in any territory under its jurisdiction and it does not extradite him pursuant to article 8 to any of the States mentioned in Paragraph 1 of this article.
3. This Convention does not exclude any criminal jurisdiction exercised in accordance with internal law.
Article 6
1. Upon being satisfied, after an examination of information available to it, that the circumstances so warrant, any State Party in whose territory a person alleged to have committed any offence referred to in article 4 is present, shall take him into custody or take other legal measures to ensure his presence. The custody and other legal measures shall be as provided in the law of that State but may be continued only for such time as is necessary to enable any criminal or extradition proceedings to be instituted.
2. Such State shall immediately make a preliminary inquiry into the facts.
3. Any person in custody pursuant to paragraph 1 of this article shall be assisted in communicating immediately with the nearest appropriate representative of the State of which he is a national, or, if he is a stateless person, to the representative of the State where he usually resides.
4. When a State, pursuant to this article, has taken a person into custody, it shall immediately notify the States referred to in article 5, paragraph 1, of the fact that such person is in custody and of the circumstances which warrant his detention. The State which makes the preliminary inquiry contemplated in paragraph 2 of this article shall promptly report its findings to the said State and shall indicate whether it intends to exercise jurisdiction.
Article 7
1. The State Party in territory under whose jurisdiction a person alleged to have committed any offence referred to in article 4 is found, shall in the cases contemplated in article 5, if it does not extradite him, submit the case to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution.
2. These authorities shall take their decision in the same manner as in the case of any ordinary offence of a serious nature under the law of that State. In the cases referred to in article 5, paragraph 2, the standards of evidence required for prosecution and conviction shall in no way be less stringent than those which apply in the cases referred to in article 5, paragraph 1.
3. Any person regarding whom proceedings are brought in connection with any of the offences referred to in article 4 shall be guaranteed fair treatment at all stages of the proceedings.
Article 8
1. The offences referred to in article 4 shall be deemed to be included as extraditable offences in any extradition treaty existing between States Parties. States Parties undertake to include such offences as extraditable offences in every extradition treaty to be concluded between them.
2. If a State Party which makes extradition conditional on the existence of a treaty receives a request for extradition from another State Party with which it has no extradition treaty, it may consider this Convention as the legal basis for extradition in respect of such offenses. Extradition shall be subject to the other conditions provided by the law of the requested State.
3. States Parties which do not make extradition conditional on the existence of a treaty shall recognize such offences as extraditable offences between themselves subject to the conditions provided by the law of the requested state.
4. Such offences shall be treated, for the purpose of extradition between States Parties, as if they had been committed not only in the place in which they occurred but also in the territories of the States required to establish their jurisdiction in accordance with article 5, paragraph 1.
Article 9
1. States Parties shall afford one another the greatest measure of assistance in connection with civil proceedings brought in respect of any of the offences referred to in article 4, including the supply of all evidence at their disposal necessary for the proceedings.
2. States Parties shall carry out their obligations under paragraph 1 of this article in conformity with any treaties on mutual judicial assistance that may exist between them.
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The true Left would be wise to realize this and push for Leftist Democratic candidates.
Zalatix
May 2012
#4
You say this as an active member of the left in the US Democratic party I assume
Dragonfli
May 2012
#331
No. At this point they're about as polar opposite on most issues as you could get.
FarLeftFist
May 2012
#3
Yes, both parties agree that the deficit needs to be addressed, but they break on HOW to address it.
FarLeftFist
May 2012
#10
And neither one wants to do the *only* thing that's actually worked in the past
MannyGoldstein
May 2012
#19
quote is exactly what the hamp program did...nothing ..nothing was done to help until
xiamiam
May 2012
#199
Definately no Democrats at fault there, GOOD EXAMPLE to counter the point of weak Democrats
Dragonfli
May 2012
#208
Then why is the admin spending more of MY resources going after marijuana dispensers than
rhett o rick
May 2012
#309
When some try to hold them accountable they tell this lie "disgruntled non dems campaign openly
Dragonfli
May 2012
#233
Scott Walker was voted into office by the KOCH brothers $$$$. held accountable, not
crunch60
May 2012
#258
Then why did we have gridlock and obstruction in 2008? Maybe that's what our corporate
rhett o rick
May 2012
#310
Adults understand there's RARELY a choice between good and better when it comes to people leading
uponit7771
May 2012
#8
Aww, shucks. Thanks. And don't worry, I'm a netnostic. I don't believe in Godwin's Law.
Zorra
May 2012
#31
At least FDR actually fought for stuff and turned the 99% economy around
MannyGoldstein
May 2012
#40
Actually, FDR's federal works programs hired pretty much without discrimination
JDPriestly
May 2012
#110
the FarRightFist often has a little trouble with facts, yet speaks with such authority
Dragonfli
May 2012
#238
So you are happy with the current situation where JP Morgan loses $2b and the Pres pats
rhett o rick
May 2012
#312
i'll just leave you to campaign against the dems to your little hearts content.
dionysus
May 2012
#62
Jesus H. Christ, you're arguing like a teabagger against Obama. DU is no place for Obama haters.
FarLeftFist
May 2012
#89
He's distorting the facts. Dems and Republicans are the same? See Texas, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin
emulatorloo
May 2012
#215
"haters" and "bashers" and critics oh my, I for one think Obama is Christlike
Dragonfli
May 2012
#188
oh, he's just picking up the slack for BBI. someone has to break the DU TOS with damn near every
dionysus
May 2012
#56
Yep, your new target is in sight, you guys will cleanse the site of him promptly
Dragonfli
May 2012
#189
OOo I want to punch some hippies, can I? (I am newly converted to Third Way Ideology, HARD CORE)
Dragonfli
May 2012
#277
Most Modern Day Democrats Aren't The Same... They're Worse... They Have No Will To Fight...
WillyT
May 2012
#60
In all fairness they are consistent and are less than enthusiastic re the Walker recall as well /nt
Dragonfli
May 2012
#242
Saying Democratic politicians and Republican politicians are the same can only help Republicans.
baldguy
May 2012
#317
If "both parties work for the 1%," and if I am a member of the Democratic Party, where's my pay?
AnotherMcIntosh
May 2012
#235
No thank you. You are saying that he's expressing himself badly. I am not. 208 recs and counting
AnotherMcIntosh
May 2012
#265
So why did you find a problem with "both parties work for the 1%"?
muriel_volestrangler
May 2012
#274
Obviously, or it should be obvious, you are using Manning's phrase out of context to mean something
AnotherMcIntosh
May 2012
#282
What utter 3rd party advocating, GOP assisting, vote suppressing fresh hell is this?
Tarheel_Dem
May 2012
#66
You get the Democrats that you can get elected, where ever you can get them elected
MrScorpio
May 2012
#70
I see progress although, like you, I wish it were more pronounced...
AynRandCollectedSS
May 2012
#298
Yes. Although the official story is that a law firm "accidentally" released it, I'd like to believe
AnotherMcIntosh
May 2012
#303
We can't follow the money. It has been flowing to the 1% for the past 20 years, and
jtuck004
May 2012
#120
Lyndon Johnson was a great politician. He was able to get the Civil Rights act passed,
blue neen
May 2012
#96
Why Nader? Is he still being true to traditional Democratic principles?
AnotherMcIntosh
May 2012
#130
"when it comes to the psychology of the mind, they are as much a Right Wing Authoritarian as any
Dragonfli
May 2012
#322
That is because they are psychologically the same, authoritarian followers of what they perceive
Dragonfli
May 2012
#328
And you, "dear", are engaging in Argument Ad Hominem. Why not stick to the subject, rather than
Romulox
May 2012
#171
Direct quote: "Hackneyed and difficult to argue with as the person employing this cheapo tactic"
Romulox
May 2012
#177
And I was so sure this OP was going to announce the start of the Progressive Prz 2016
JoePhilly
May 2012
#166
Got that right, there is no more democracy, there is only oligarchy of the 1%. K&R
mother earth
May 2012
#167
The Status Quo is the ONLY realistic system possible. Remember that, and you'll be fine.
Romulox
May 2012
#172
except those who believe blindly..that is not us..thats what they turned us into..non thinkers
xiamiam
May 2012
#206
manny, actually most people know this now, maybe not on the new du, but out here in america
xiamiam
May 2012
#211
Get you "tossed off of DU?" Your divisive, unintelligent, overused and incorrect OP got 173 recs.
great white snark
May 2012
#212
That this OP is typical of Manny. He often tells us of Obama's Secret Plan to Destroy Social Securit
emulatorloo
May 2012
#236
Well let's see. Find where I claimed Manny could not post his opinion here
emulatorloo
May 2012
#266
You do realize Manny that they have nothing and so will ignore your challenge
Dragonfli
May 2012
#326
You're right, of course. The snark attack words, with quote marks, don't appear anywhere in the OP.
AnotherMcIntosh
May 2012
#241
You are in the wrong OP then, He never said Dem=GOP, you putting those words in his mouth
Dragonfli
May 2012
#273
That is EXACTLY what Manny said. He said Dems and Repugs both work for the 1% that means
stevenleser
May 2012
#292
I admire how you patiently explain this to one willfully trying to misread the post
Dragonfli
May 2012
#325
In your mind perhaps, feel free to rewrite the OP at will, I will still read the actual OP
Dragonfli
May 2012
#324
That is what all the promises are for, the ones they tell to get elected and then do the opposite
Dragonfli
May 2012
#246
183 recs and counting. As long as DU3 has an ignore button, those who want orthodoxy instead of
AnotherMcIntosh
May 2012
#226
You saw something that I didn't. I didn't see a reference to the Ryan Plan in Manny's OP.
AnotherMcIntosh
May 2012
#240
Also, you have to squint a little, and cover your left eye, but it's in there I swear!!! /nt
Dragonfli
May 2012
#278
Too literal minded? "Yes" if you mean understanding the words that were used
AnotherMcIntosh
May 2012
#281
My ex is a die hard O'reilly watching, Limbaugh listening GOPER. This is the only thing we agreed
jillan
May 2012
#260
Respectfully, your ex is wrong. While Repubs have uniform beliefs, the Democratic Party consists
AnotherMcIntosh
May 2012
#268
Since this is now election season, I was hoping to get more bones thrown at us for a few months.
AnotherMcIntosh
May 2012
#284
The Dems are systematically purging the Progessives from the party
Dont call me Shirley
May 2012
#286
yes, that has been going on sice at least clinton and his de-regulation, free trade, welfare killing
Dragonfli
May 2012
#330
You really need to clarify that, on it's surface it came off as a "left handed compliment"
Dragonfli
May 2012
#329