General Discussion

bvar22

(39,909 posts)

208. Did you bother to read the OP?

Mon Jul 13, 2015, 04:52 PM

Jul 2015

Last edited Mon Jul 13, 2015, 05:27 PM - Edit history (1)

....and you call MY post a non-sequitur?

#1..Go read the OP & Link.

#2..Go look up the word "non-sequitur."

#3.. delete you post before too many people read it.
(Just trying to save you more embarrassment.)

Here is what Krugman has to say about the crisis in Greece.
While he doesn't specifically say the word "Extortion", he describes it well.

Suppose you consider Tsipras an incompetent twerp. Suppose you dearly want to see Syriza out of power. Suppose, even, that you welcome the prospect of pushing those annoying Greeks out of the euro.

Even if all of that is true, this Eurogroup list of demands is madness. The trending hashtag ThisIsACoup is exactly right. This goes beyond harsh into pure vindictiveness, complete destruction of national sovereignty, and no hope of relief. It is, presumably, meant to be an offer Greece can’t accept; but even so, it’s a grotesque betrayal of everything the European project was supposed to stand for.
--- Paul Krugman

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/killing-the-european-project/?_r=1

in best Jersey mob accent:
Nice country ya got there.
Be a shame if it burnt down tonight.

Your post is just another failed attempt to deny reality and discredit the Pulitzer Prize Winning service that Snowden, Greenwald, and their publishers have provided to the American Public and the World.

*Rampant Government Secrecy and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Persecution of Whistle Blowers and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Government surveillance of the citizenry and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Secret Laws and Democracy can not co-exist.

*Secret Courts and Democracy can not-co-exist.

*Our Democracy depends on an informed electorate.

You either believe in Democracy,
or you don't.
It IS that simple.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

212 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The Latest Snowden Leak Is Devastating to NSA Defenders [View all] Ichingcarpenter Jul 2015 OP

Right. So instead of going to Bernie Sanders or another trusted Senator about this, pnwmom Jul 2015 #1

Did you *NOT* just read the story that I did? Aerows Jul 2015 #2

Why couldn't he have gone to Bernie Sanders instead of dumping these files with Wikileaks? pnwmom Jul 2015 #3

What could any senator have done if Snowden had gone to them? JDPriestly Jul 2015 #19

Under the Whistleblowers Protection Act....both the Senator and Snowden msanthrope Jul 2015 #52

The Whistleblower Protection Act does not apply to intelligence employees. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #66

Yes.....it does.....you have the wrong law...... msanthrope Jul 2015 #67

Here is the ACLU's answer to your comment. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #122

But of course the ACLU is wrong and that poster is always right so you lose. Or something. BeanMusical Jul 2015 #125

What does SMH mean? JDPriestly Jul 2015 #139

Oh sorry, using too many acronyms. It means Shaking My Head. BeanMusical Jul 2015 #141

Thanks. New to me. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #143

The ACLU also wrote an amicus supporting Citizen's United....and here, they agree with me msanthrope Jul 2015 #177

I love it how you think that calling him "Comrade Eddie" is somehow shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #198

Nothing illustrates how empty the so-called "Whistleblower Protection" laws really are more than . . markpkessinger Jul 2015 #191

Legal opinion is split on the matter . . . markpkessinger Jul 2015 #199

Legal opinion is split on the matter, but here's the thing..... msanthrope Jul 2015 #201

I don't accept that being a whistleblower means becoming a legal martyr . . . markpkessinger Jul 2015 #209

Actually that's exactly what it means.......too bad Comrade Eddie didn't have her courage: msanthrope Jul 2015 #210

No . . . markpkessinger Jul 2015 #211

As if the Whistleblowers Protection Act protects. cui bono Jul 2015 #109

Can you document Snowden giving information... bvar22 Jul 2015 #110

"he just gave the info to Russia, China" BeanMusical Jul 2015 #120

I thought it was parody at first Ichingcarpenter Jul 2015 #4

Where did you come up with the idea that anyone is blaming Sanders? pnwmom Jul 2015 #12

How exactly -could- Sanders have done anything? Shamash Jul 2015 #25

Um, Congress creates legislation. They conduct investigations. randome Jul 2015 #33

Um, right. Shamash Jul 2015 #35

You do not steal national security docs, flee the country and hand over info to foreign nationals. randome Jul 2015 #36

Send me some mail if you decide to answer my question, otherwise we're done Shamash Jul 2015 #40

Where have we gotten during the past two years? randome Jul 2015 #41

Do you think we the people would be better off had there not have been a Snowden? rhett o rick Jul 2015 #78

Are you happy about the fact that we live in a police state? JDPriestly Jul 2015 #92

Deliriously happy. randome Jul 2015 #160

"Deliriously happy." BeanMusical Jul 2015 #166

I guess this means you were on board with the Bush/Cheney admin when this mass spying on US sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #107

Foreign nationals do not enjoy our Constitutional privileges. randome Jul 2015 #126

Additional safeguards against secrets JonLP24 Jul 2015 #155

I'm not going to take the time to address every point. randome Jul 2015 #161

The point I was addressing these safeguards or whatever things to keep them in check had any power JonLP24 Jul 2015 #163

Lol. ronnie624 Jul 2015 #195

Like with Kriakou? Look it up. Congress is powerless to protect its witnesses. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #91

Kriakou did us all a world of good. He also lied to get his book published. randome Jul 2015 #132

The Founding Fathers warned us against foreign entanglements for a reason. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #138

This is on US the CIA mostly JonLP24 Jul 2015 #156

Thanks. Eisenhower became enamoured with intelligence because the ENIGMA and JDPriestly Jul 2015 #157

And don't forget Truman's 1963 Washington Post Op-Ed markpkessinger Jul 2015 #188

Yes. Thanks for your post. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #190

America is not the answer to everything. But we have done more good than harm, IMO. randome Jul 2015 #159

"More good than harm. . ." markpkessinger Jul 2015 #196

You know what could have been a better route? He could have gone to A Simple Game Jul 2015 #121

Um, Snowden has given us a chance to be aware tavalon Jul 2015 #32

Sunlight is the best disinfectant davidn3600 Jul 2015 #38

If Snowden went to Congress, there would have been just as much sunlight as now. randome Jul 2015 #39

no it is not questionseverything Jul 2015 #42

If you obtain a target's email, you will always get information that does not belong to him/her. randome Jul 2015 #46

I'll stand with Snowden, Greenwald, ....and THIS guy: bvar22 Jul 2015 #175

A total non-sequitur. Nothing that Snowden stole shows that the NSA is spying on us. randome Jul 2015 #204

Did you bother to read the OP? bvar22 Jul 2015 #208

+1000 nt Mojorabbit Jul 2015 #57

No, at BEST this would have been handled behind closed doors and the public would have still been hughee99 Jul 2015 #63

Sanders would have hid this behind closed doors? Warren? Udall? randome Jul 2015 #89

Even those people aren't going to hold PUBLIC hughee99 Jul 2015 #100

They can't even go public about details of the TPP and you think they could A Simple Game Jul 2015 #123

He would have had to do so . . . markpkessinger Jul 2015 #197

It was months after his escape that Snowden claimed he had tried to go through channels. randome Jul 2015 #203

He did exactly the right thing. Btw, you are aware, are you not, that several other Whistle Blowers sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #48

^^^ THIS ^^^ cantbeserious Jul 2015 #76

+1000 BeanMusical Jul 2015 #105

+10 840high Jul 2015 #114

this post wins retrowire Jul 2015 #152

That is the point. Octafish Jul 2015 #162

I'm glad he didn't go to a senator and released it publicly instead LittleBlue Jul 2015 #70

Had he done as you suggest, it's my opinion that he'd be in solitary confinement, most rhett o rick Jul 2015 #84

I checked the weather report on my Yahoo account this morning. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #97

Those that choose to close their eyes to the un-Constitutional spying are rhett o rick Jul 2015 #108

J. Edgar Hoover had an incredible amount of very detailed files on an impressive number of people. BeanMusical Jul 2015 #124

Blackmail is a very useful tool and there is no reason to believe that the current, uncontrolled rhett o rick Jul 2015 #148

Absolutely, and on a much bigger scale than old Edgar did, I'm afraid. BeanMusical Jul 2015 #165

OK. Time for conspiracy theories. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #142

I've tried to make the point with some of our conservative friends (?) that this power can be used rhett o rick Jul 2015 #147

My suspicion precisely. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #153

Yes I agree. nm rhett o rick Jul 2015 #168

WTH? 840high Jul 2015 #112

The Constitution requires probable cause for a search and seizure. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #5

Um, no. msanthrope Jul 2015 #15

What are you saying no to? With what in my post do you disagree? JDPriestly Jul 2015 #20

The Constitution does not require probable cause for a search in all msanthrope Jul 2015 #50

Jurisprudence that is not based on a reading of the text of the Constitution. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #88

It's own budget. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #27

This is the great missed point. "What is the NSA defending if not the Constitution?" Enthusiast Jul 2015 #29

They violated the 4th Amendment rights of every US Citizen and until someone is held accountable for sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #49

Actually the snooping started long ago. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #90

I don't know Caretha Jul 2015 #127

What's interesting is, that when the mass spying using the telecoms by the Bush regime was exposed sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #128

Easy answer. The NSA/CIA Dark Security State work to protect the Oligarchs. rhett o rick Jul 2015 #87

Constitution? We don't need no stinkin' Constitution. OnyxCollie Jul 2015 #144

Gobbldygook. Meaningless chatter and justification. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #146

I do not support Snowden Dwayne Hicks Jul 2015 #6

Authoritarian types never like Snowden. Katashi_itto Jul 2015 #10

Touch�. Persecute the citizen to protect the state. tblue Jul 2015 #13

It's characteristic of any authoritarian government. Enthusiast Jul 2015 #31

It's part and parcel of ANY nation state nolabels Jul 2015 #212

+1! Enthusiast Jul 2015 #30

So "authoritarian" means treestar Jul 2015 #55

Ah an anti Snowden type. Other Various Fascist Regimes have the rule of law too. Katashi_itto Jul 2015 #60

No fascists regimes do not have a rule of law treestar Jul 2015 #94

"Fascist regimes do not have the rule of law...."well at least we know you have no idea what your Katashi_itto Jul 2015 #102

what we mean by the rule of law is treestar Jul 2015 #103

Right...tell me what happened with the Bush Criminal Empire again? Katashi_itto Jul 2015 #104

No one is above the law. Just ask General Petraeus . . . markpkessinger Jul 2015 #192

It's sort of a Hobby Lobby Corollary, treestar. randome Jul 2015 #83

Exactly. BillZBubb Jul 2015 #79

Specifically what information was harmful? NorthCarolinaL Jul 2015 #14

What "potential" harm? Which lives did he put "at risk?" merrily Jul 2015 #16

Supporters of the STASI in East Germany did not like whistleblowers either. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #21

lol East Germany had a whistleblower protection act? treestar Jul 2015 #56

The Whistleblower Protection Act does not apply to many intelligence employees. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #61

I wish to see Snowden lauded and decorated. John Poet Jul 2015 #24

In charge of shutting it down? nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #28

whistleblowers are just so terrible, making it so hard for the "serious people" magical thyme Jul 2015 #26

Snowden is a hero and did exactly the right thing. What do you think he should have done, what all sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #51

+1000 BillZBubb Jul 2015 #80

^^^^^^ lordsummerisle Jul 2015 #113

Dwayne, you are poorly informed. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #98

Wikileaks? Hissyspit Jul 2015 #149

Some people don't see the big picture, like you! Nt Logical Jul 2015 #151

"Treason" under U.S. law is not anybody's matter of opinion markpkessinger Jul 2015 #193

all the hi tech NSA spying cant spy on white bonniebgood Jul 2015 #7

Sure didn't prevent the Boston Marathon bombers, either, despite specific tips. merrily Jul 2015 #18

Because the NSA is forbidden by law from monitoring American citizens. randome Jul 2015 #34

And also think4yourself Jul 2015 #140

i said it wrong but you get my point. nt bonniebgood Jul 2015 #8

Great finn, Ichingcarpenter vlakitti Jul 2015 #9

What's all this Wikileaks nonsense? Kablooie Jul 2015 #11

Pathetic attempts to distract from the issue reorg Jul 2015 #69

IMO, focusing on Snowden removes focus from the US Govt and the 4th Amendment, where it should be. merrily Jul 2015 #17

Ten thousand TARGETED out of seven billion people? My 4th Amendment rights quiver with fear! randome Jul 2015 #22

doesn't the article say: druidity33 Jul 2015 #44

Yeah, I misread that part. randome Jul 2015 #47

plus, heartbreaks and religious conversions treestar Jul 2015 #58

God forbid that any of the people should become well known. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #99

You misread pretty much everything reorg Jul 2015 #62

That ones never met a government agency they didn't like. Rex Jul 2015 #65

I've been here since 2001. Zero posts on DU3 is simply wrong. randome Jul 2015 #72

What was your DU1 name? Caretha Jul 2015 #131

It was randome (pronounced RAN-dohm). Now it's randome (pronouned RAN-doh-may). randome Jul 2015 #136

So what is 160,000 communications out of the hundreds of billions of yearly communications? randome Jul 2015 #74

It's the sample analyzed by the WP reorg Jul 2015 #77

Then there is no evidence that there is more. Or that this sample was obtained illegally. randome Jul 2015 #81

Yes, there is evidence, and yes, it was obtained illegally reorg Jul 2015 #93

So if a woman in the U.S. sends a photo of a toddler in a bathtub to a foreign suspect... randome Jul 2015 #135

no, this is about surveillance under FISA reorg Jul 2015 #176

So how would anyone monitor only one individual in a chat room? randome Jul 2015 #179

that's exactly the problem reorg Jul 2015 #200

Funny you ignore the fact that they did something illegal and pass off 10k people as nothing. Rex Jul 2015 #64

What is illegal about collecting foreign communications? randome Jul 2015 #73

If that is the best defense that you have Aerows Jul 2015 #75

It's the NSA's job to analyze foreign communications. randome Jul 2015 #86

Using classification as a means of hiding conduct that is illegal . . . markpkessinger Jul 2015 #194

That was never Snowden's concern until deep into his exile. randome Jul 2015 #202

Define mass Caretha Jul 2015 #130

So long as the NSA does not spy on American citizens, they are following the law. randome Jul 2015 #137

You contradict yourself Caretha Jul 2015 #180

By 'spy', I mean deliberately target an American citizen. randome Jul 2015 #185

No doubt many people predicate their rights on playing the Vegas odds. LanternWaste Jul 2015 #207

The NSA is an agency full of CRIMINALS. John Poet Jul 2015 #23

The blackmail component of the NSA spying is also summarily dismissed, yet look at the obvious GoneFishin Jul 2015 #37

This is such an important point. If its OK for the NSA to snoop on foreign and domestic JDPriestly Jul 2015 #101

All true. We are now the 1960s Russia which we were told was inferior to America, land of the free, GoneFishin Jul 2015 #181

And tragicomically, as evidenced by some of the responses, they'll find a way to defend it...... marmar Jul 2015 #43

I thought they were pro's, and all that power wouldn't get misused? Babel_17 Jul 2015 #45

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2015 #53

If true, no one care about that stuff treestar Jul 2015 #54

The article says a woman was contacted by a reporter. nt Mojorabbit Jul 2015 #59

And did this woman have some sort of connection -direct or otherwise- to a foreign suspect? randome Jul 2015 #85

Guess you forgot Caretha Jul 2015 #182

No one has accused her of anything so innocence or guilt is irrelevant. randome Jul 2015 #184

I suppose the reporter found it because Eddie dumped it out there treestar Jul 2015 #96

They don't possess the scruples to be devastated by the truth n/t whatchamacallit Jul 2015 #68

In Snowden's Wake: New Book Examines Needed Intelligence Reforms (Spencer Brignac 7-7-15 Project On bobthedrummer Jul 2015 #71

Like climate change deniers, no facts will influence the NSA groupies. BillZBubb Jul 2015 #82

And a significant overlap with the BOG and hillarians Doctor_J Jul 2015 #95

45 years here. It is sad. 840high Jul 2015 #115

Great analogy! BeanMusical Jul 2015 #106

So how has all this affected you. timdog44 Jul 2015 #111

No words. At least, none that wouldn't get me an alert and time off. Maedhros Jul 2015 #129

You misunderstand. Period timdog44 Jul 2015 #170

For fucks sake man navarth Jul 2015 #134

show some fucking class will you timdog44 Jul 2015 #171

Crap apologism. Nt Hissyspit Jul 2015 #150

You misunderstand. timdog44 Jul 2015 #172

"The Latest Snowden Leak" cstanleytech Jul 2015 #116

I mentioned it was an old story in my first post but no one wanted to address that. randome Jul 2015 #117

Oh I kinda doubt is is actual silent, he is probably singing like a canary for the Russians because cstanleytech Jul 2015 #119

"he is probably singing like a canary for the Russians" BeanMusical Jul 2015 #145

Word of the day is ............"probably". cstanleytech Jul 2015 #154

Posted JUL 7, 2014. Happy one year birthday to this article! Number23 Jul 2015 #118

Is this the LBN forum? elias49 Jul 2015 #164

So fucking what? BeanMusical Jul 2015 #167

Thank you for proving my point better than I ever could Number23 Jul 2015 #178

See post 164, this is a discussion site, people have been discussing. BeanMusical Jul 2015 #186

Not one thing you've said refutes anything I've said. In fact, not one thing you've said even Number23 Jul 2015 #187

I can see that you are angry. BeanMusical Jul 2015 #205

I'd vote for this guy. V0ltairesGh0st Jul 2015 #133

From what I have gathered from the folks Aerows Jul 2015 #158

From what I see an what you see timdog44 Jul 2015 #169

holy crap Liberal_in_LA Jul 2015 #173

Will it interfere with their 2 minutes of love for Big Brother? Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2015 #174

Ron Cobb. navarth Jul 2015 #189

Post removed Post removed Jul 2015 #183

"Greenwald's fuck-buddy" BeanMusical Jul 2015 #206