General Discussion

lapislzi

(5,762 posts)

58. I will, but not in the way you think.

Tue Jul 14, 2015, 08:37 AM

Jul 2015

This white person (self) is a beneficiary of white privilege just like every other white person. I know it. Just because I didn't "ask" for it doesn't make it less so.

I am not going to cry the crocodile tears of white guilt because I don't find that particularly productive. I also know I have no right to ask for help in improving myself and my outlook--admittedly filled with biases known and unknown--from any person of color. Nobody of color owes me one damn thing. The only thing I can offer that isn't freighted is the service of listening with empathy. If that's even possible (I don't know).

I do not wish to be made comfortable. Being comfortable is what got us here in the first place. Being afflicted and puzzling it out is the only way I can see to evolve myself.

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Highlight:

White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard to Talk to White People About Racism [View all] Zenlitened Jul 2015 OP

Respect is a two way street, however Prism Jul 2015 #1

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2015 #7

... cwydro Jul 2015 #10

Well said. madfloridian Jul 2015 #11

Thank you. 840high Jul 2015 #16

Well put flamingdem Jul 2015 #27

Well said. Doubtful if those who need to will actually hear your words . . . Journeyman Jul 2015 #29

When I--a white woman--was running for City Council, I said the words "white privilege" in a debate femmedem Jul 2015 #30

White silence then? romanic Jul 2015 #38

This isn't really about privilege though Prism Jul 2015 #76

I can not discuss it with my yuiyoshida Jul 2015 #169

I don't see it that way at all malaise Jul 2015 #40

Let's examine another equivalent Prism Jul 2015 #73

Say the word "breeders," say "white tears," and I'll turn, walk away, phylny Jul 2015 #173

insulting maybe, but most of the time those making the insult have no power to oppress yurbud Jul 2015 #177

But its not about the power to oppress... CANDO Jul 2015 #196

When you break it down like that, the whole exercise seems kinda cheap and chickenshit. Throd Jul 2015 #205

Well said, malaise. YoungDemCA Jul 2015 #74

This is exactly how I see it. CharlotteVale Jul 2015 #83

Excellent point re Rude Pundit. I'd add Jon Stewart, John Oliver, etc Zenlitened Jul 2015 #115

Rudie doesn't mind offending people to make his point malaise Jul 2015 #153

Great posts from you and malaise and great effort on your part. Number23 Jul 2015 #168

Thank you, it's kind of you to share that affirmation. Zenlitened Jul 2015 #176

+1 Quayblue Jul 2015 #121

to paraprase what you said, using a corporate chiche HFRN Jul 2015 #66

Wise words, Prism and ChazII Jul 2015 #68

Ideally, yes, respect would be a two-way street... Zenlitened Jul 2015 #103

Maturity is truly balanced Prism Jul 2015 #143

Yes yes and yes.... MellowDem Jul 2015 #160

You are exactly right Prism Jul 2015 #165

Bull manure... Spatened Jul 2015 #180

I have only read what is excerpted, clearly nothing there is remotely hostile, so I assume the randys1 Jul 2015 #110

Perfect. 99Forever Jul 2015 #144

^^^ This. And that is my comment on "race," "racism," "privilege" in DU.nt Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #154

bingo! Snow Leopard Jul 2015 #175

vox.com heaven05 Jul 2015 #182

Respect from me is reflexively given to all, but easily lost. hunter Jul 2015 #187

The funny thing is oppressors don't like to think of themselves as oppressors 951-Riverside Jul 2015 #2

Yep GummyBearz Jul 2015 #15

It doesn't help to use the term "oppressors" so generally. madfloridian Jul 2015 #23

Not humph - but you'd better malaise Jul 2015 #67

Who are the oppressors? How do we identify them? By their actions or is the evidence only skin deep? Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #87

implying something you can't quite say? bettyellen Jul 2015 #92

That's kinda what I'm asking. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #113

If racists are deemed to be deemed racist by the color of their skin? Seriously? bettyellen Jul 2015 #116

I don't think #allanypeople are anything Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #119

Oh so very true! kenfrequed Jul 2015 #104

K&R Solly Mack Jul 2015 #3

It's all in the framing. Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #4

That's not an apt analogy at all Scootaloo Jul 2015 #5

It's a hostile, argumentative way to frame the issue. Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #6

Your analogy is still not an apt one. Scootaloo Jul 2015 #22

Ikr Person 2713 Jul 2015 #170

"people in this world who are more interested in stirring up racial animosity" < Mostly white ones. jtuck004 Jul 2015 #19

Perfect example of a race baiter JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #28

Or, maybe you are just incorrect. Since it's a simple fact, and true. It may be jtuck004 Jul 2015 #35

I don't think it's time is over unfortunately JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #45

I say its time is over because I think the country is over. It's too integral to our success, jtuck004 Jul 2015 #50

I hope you are right JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #52

Don't you think that our system also allows us to thwart the evil that men do? LuvLoogie Jul 2015 #60

Have you taken a thoughtful look at Congress lately? jtuck004 Jul 2015 #78

What country would you give rise to after killing this one? LuvLoogie Jul 2015 #204

I didn't say I would kill it, you did. I said it would kill itself. What comes after is not up jtuck004 Jul 2015 #206

God I hope the time is over, but not yet. Wait till the vile, filthy, disgusting puke fuck randys1 Jul 2015 #118

that may be accurate for anyone who focuses on format rather than content in any given discussion. LanternWaste Jul 2015 #70

Here's how a real grown-up does it. Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #75

Reverse racism gwheezie Jul 2015 #8

"Serena is a national treasure" Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #9

Maybe I didn't explain my opinion clearly gwheezie Jul 2015 #12

"It is not up to black folks to end racism". Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #13

Some white people want black people to admit they're racist.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #18

Thank you so much! Getting black people to admit some "reverse racism" means that it absolves Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #166

It gets better with each generation... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #179

That's not actually true gollygee Jul 2015 #185

There are examples on this page of racists desperate to pass on their tradition of hate... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #193

I agree it can gollygee Jul 2015 #195

Privileged white people dont believe, as you can see in this thread, that racism is their randys1 Jul 2015 #112

thank you Skittles Jul 2015 #21

^^This artislife Jul 2015 #81

K&R Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #14

Some whites act like you're projecting onto them the entire history of racism and get angry.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #17

Exactly. nt sufrommich Jul 2015 #34

I will, but not in the way you think. lapislzi Jul 2015 #58

What part of the US are you from? Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #97

Metro NY area lapislzi Jul 2015 #107

I wondered where that mindset came from that POC aren't supposed to help you deal with it.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #111

I never said I was smart. lapislzi Jul 2015 #125

FWIW, IMO you've expressed things pretty well. Zenlitened Jul 2015 #141

I was raised an Air Force Brat... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #150

no one likes to be stereotyped Skittles Jul 2015 #20

Totally spot on DustyJoe Jul 2015 #59

..... 840high Jul 2015 #203

You know what I can't stand about stereotypers? Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #88

Or enslaved, or refused service in a hotel or restaurant. Or questioned when if you were white randys1 Jul 2015 #114

OMG Skittles Jul 2015 #171

Reccing for truth nt MrScorpio Jul 2015 #24

Racism has its roots in ,,,, Cryptoad Jul 2015 #25

Sadly, racism will never disappear. It's Exilednight Jul 2015 #61

So, this title: "Serena Williams Drinks, Bathes In, And Makes Lemonade With White Tears" betsuni Jul 2015 #26

This is what I don't get,who reads on DU sufrommich Jul 2015 #39

So if I make an offensive statement about "black people", Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #43

Please,just stop with the reverse racism crap. A black man wrote an sufrommich Jul 2015 #47

Plus 1 JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #51

You posts in this thread are the epitome of calm reasoning. sufrommich Jul 2015 #54

I'll probably get some indignant response from someone JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #63

+++ Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #55

Then it should read "bathes in racists tears" instead of a blanket insult 7962 Jul 2015 #80

This has been on DU before, and I'm glad it's here again gollygee Jul 2015 #31

I see the "tone" argument is being bandied about sufrommich Jul 2015 #32

LOL Just once gollygee Jul 2015 #33

Good point. It's only minorities that need to watch their words sufrommich Jul 2015 #36

And always with the "shush, stop being so childish and immature, let the real grown-ups talk." betsuni Jul 2015 #41

Yep, perfect description. nt sufrommich Jul 2015 #42

Uh-Huh! Look at how these fools talked to me in that other thread. Ridiculously condescending. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #167

I think some White members on here romanic Jul 2015 #37

There's a reason that Barack Obama is President and the "lemonade with white tears" guy is not. Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #44

I don't know about reactions - linking article BY a white person - not my words JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #48

And that's why we don't expect bloggers- like the Rude Pundit - to POTUS standards- bettyellen Jul 2015 #82

Certainly not *this* blogger. Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #85

Or *any* blogger outside academia, really. I get it though- bettyellen Jul 2015 #86

You mean like this response to me Kingofalldems Jul 2015 #46

heaven05 is a senior citizen JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #49

One group told to suck it up on a message board, the other murdered at will by cops and randys1 Jul 2015 #122

Pretty much. romanic Jul 2015 #209

Thanks. Kingofalldems Jul 2015 #210

you dont cure racism, by spreading more stereotypes and generalizations nt HFRN Jul 2015 #53

Racism towards black people or towards white people? n/t JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #56

either nt HFRN Jul 2015 #57

That's where the discussion dissolves to pieces JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #62

the OP was 'White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard to Talk to White People About Racism' HFRN Jul 2015 #64

okay - so you aren' t familiar with where this OP came from - context is everything JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #69

I'm not going to bother citing the red herrings, rationalizations and false assumptions in your post HFRN Jul 2015 #71

I have no chip on my shoulder? JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #72

And your interaction here is text book illustration of white privilege in America. randys1 Jul 2015 #124

Generally speaking, people who benefit from the mechanisms of oppression rarely want to admit to it me b zola Jul 2015 #65

The Serena Williams OP to which you refer wasn't "talking to" whites, it was "talking at" them. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #77

Up thread someone suggested they phrase things like Obama does, lol. bettyellen Jul 2015 #84

Does anyone ever wring their hands that... lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #89

Well I think some people enjoy snark but avoid serious commentary and they actually might learn some bettyellen Jul 2015 #91

To the extent that there is a serious point behind that op lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #95

I think it goes way beyond her muscles- same as it does with Michele O. bettyellen Jul 2015 #99

The Serena thing is solely about race, like with Michelle, as you say. randys1 Jul 2015 #126

Well I think there's a fair amount of sexism that intersects there- bettyellen Jul 2015 #156

Oops, absolutely. randys1 Jul 2015 #158

I am half brown half white to clarify artislife Jul 2015 #79

How long before the privileged class lets go of their bullshit? randys1 Jul 2015 #127

"I say give it a try..." Iggo Jul 2015 #90

When will people admit that there will always be racist trolls LittleBlue Jul 2015 #93

So give up and ignore racists? Okay then..... bettyellen Jul 2015 #94

You could, you know, actually be doing something to help the black community LittleBlue Jul 2015 #96

with all due respect Quayblue Jul 2015 #98

Roof and trolls have one thing in common LittleBlue Jul 2015 #101

I disagree. Quayblue Jul 2015 #120

Nice assumption, but it's actually a dodge. Silencing dissent is your answer. Noted. bettyellen Jul 2015 #100

As a POC, what are you doing to accomplish a resolution to this? randys1 Jul 2015 #128

Nothing LittleBlue Jul 2015 #151

Who is doing the trolling? randys1 Jul 2015 #157

not you heaven05 Jul 2015 #192

actually keeping heaven05 Jul 2015 #191

Some of the responses in this awoke_in_2003 Jul 2015 #102

Butt hurt is the phrase, for sure. And it never stops. randys1 Jul 2015 #129

we live all our lives swimming in a sea of white privilege. Agnosticsherbet Jul 2015 #105

Absolutely. A SYMPTON of it IS the DENIAL of it. Why cant they see that!!! randys1 Jul 2015 #159

You got that right. KamaAina Jul 2015 #106

+1000 smirkymonkey Jul 2015 #108

Because people think they're being attacked ibegurpard Jul 2015 #109

maybe it's all the race-baiting trainwrecks? MisterP Jul 2015 #117

You consider Kama's post RACE BAITING? Seriously? randys1 Jul 2015 #131

President Obama never refers to "white privilege" or "white tears". Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #135

Now all of a sudden President Obama Quayblue Jul 2015 #147

I don't remember MLK snarking about "white tears" either. Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #148

go ahead and hold on to that if you must nt Quayblue Jul 2015 #152

I am stunned how white people will drag MLK or Obama out when they think they randys1 Jul 2015 #161

Blatant denial of institutional racism right here on DU taught_me_patience Jul 2015 #123

Did you alert on the post that denied institutional racism? Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #130

You just can't help yourself, can you. You do realize that people here can see right Guy Whitey Corngood Jul 2015 #136

THANK YOU Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #137

Any time. I know you're joking since there's no fucking way you'd Guy Whitey Corngood Jul 2015 #139

Thank you sincerely for that suggestion. Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #142

Exactly! "White people should be reminded of how privileged they are on a regular basis." Guy Whitey Corngood Jul 2015 #145

Cool, I guess you and I are both in the 63% majority of that poll. Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #146

We could find more common ground if we can recognize that it was Guy Whitey Corngood Jul 2015 #149

The results of the poll is an example of white privilege. randys1 Jul 2015 #162

But there's no such thing..... even if there were. We need to keep it quiet and Guy Whitey Corngood Jul 2015 #163

If half or more of so called liberals are still stuck on stupid when it comes to this, or randys1 Jul 2015 #164

No doubt gollygee Jul 2015 #186

Oh it is heaven05 Jul 2015 #188

The primal scream in November 2008 when the presidency was seized from the grasp of white males, Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #198

ummm, ummm, ummmm heaven05 Jul 2015 #184

I know artislife Jul 2015 #132

Yep, same folks do it everyday, yet I find new ones in this thread. randys1 Jul 2015 #133

I fear I'll say this more bluntly than I intend to, hughee99 Jul 2015 #134

they dont want to have a conversation HFRN Jul 2015 #138

Heh. ^ Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #155

How we react is a measure of our own character, or lack thereof. Zenlitened Jul 2015 #172

If someone tells you that your opinion doesn't matter, before they even hear it, simply hughee99 Jul 2015 #174

You say, " they tend to be less open to new ideas"... Zenlitened Jul 2015 #178

If you want someone to listen to you, telling them to shut up, listen and agree is a bad way to go hughee99 Jul 2015 #194

it's the newest meme, don't you know Skittles Jul 2015 #181

Not quite true, imho. lovemydog Jul 2015 #197

What if you aren't thinking about learning about baseball, and someone starts hughee99 Jul 2015 #199

I learn more from someone who knows about baseball than me. lovemydog Jul 2015 #200

If you really want to learn about racial issues, you can do the same thing. hughee99 Jul 2015 #201

That thread title was bad. Turin_C3PO Jul 2015 #140

white privilege is a very fragile thing heaven05 Jul 2015 #183

I think you're exactly right. Zenlitened Jul 2015 #189

no the ground is firm, so far heaven05 Jul 2015 #190

I keep reading that you can't start a conversation about race with the wrong language JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #207

astute analysis heaven05 Jul 2015 #211

It's not difficult at all. It's uncomfortable for some, but not difficult. locdlib Jul 2015 #202

why? because they would have to admit they like 'white priviledge'. pansypoo53219 Jul 2015 #208

I Believe Your Simple Post. . . ProfessorGAC Jul 2015 #212