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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
43. It's hard for Black people to understand what is obvious to white progressives: that
Mon Jul 20, 2015, 02:25 PM
Jul 2015

economic issues are intrinsically tied to racism.

Yes. Rich people like Donald Trump can be racists. (His remarks about Mexicans. Whew!)

And yes. Black people, even if rich, suffer from racism even when they shop in expensive stores or eat in expensive restaurants. Racism appears to be unaware of economics.

But it isn't. Most racists view anyone with dark skin as "poor," "lazy" and suspicious and getting more than he or she deserves. Please. That is not my opinion. But as a white person, that is what racists think and that is what they generally feel free to express to me as a white person that they might not openly express to a Black person. Consider the Republican code talk about welfare recipients (although most are really white). The image that underlies racism is an economic one, inaccurate and wrong, yes, but economic. From another viewpoint, I would say that economics is the excuse for racism.

(Similarly, the excuse for irrational anti-Jewish feelings is also stated as an economic one: "They're rich and they take what isn't theirs." Again not what I think or say but what I have heard not just in America but also and most importantly in Europe. Whether the economic stereotypes are really the reason or whether it is code for "They have a different culture," I am unsure, but when you are white, haters let you know how they justify their hate, and that is what I have heard. No one ever says that Jews are wrong because of their religious beliefs or that Blacks are less for any reason other than that they are "lazy and poor." And "you know." Not to me anyway. This is again basically and economic view that Jewish lives are not in economic terms worth what Jewish people are falsely believed to have. It is based of course on the completely false view that Jewish people are rich. And the stereotype of Black people is that they are poor. Neither of these stereotypes is accurate, but they are common among racists.)

Making college free or at least easily affordable for all might not instantly change a racist into a progressive. Having good early child-care available at little or no cost for every child in America would not turn off racism right away either. Raising the minimum wage and making sure every person in America has good health care won't either. More jobs, less incarceration, more rehabilitation, more school and community integration won't work like magic charms either. More ability of Black people to live where they want and not in unofficially segregated housing. That would help so much. A law that said that low income housing had to be integrated into all neighborhoods. That would help. None of these policies would completely get rid of racism.

(Racism in our police forces can be ended by requiring that police departments make public and report to special independent commissions that investigate racism and the use of excessive force in law enforcement and that the FBI investigate independently every accusation of racism or excessive force by any police officer in the country. That is an expensive proposition, but it needs to be done at least until our law enforcement gets racism and the use of excessive force under control. Just the threat of investigations would probably stop a lot of the racism and excessive force.)

But all of these things can remove from the thoughts and discussion about race the edge of the economic preconceptions that feed and foster racism and that cause the frustration that moves white people to act out on their racist feelings.

I have asked many DUers to suggest ways other than economic change that we can move the hearts and minds of racists and change our fundamentally racist society into something that accepts individuals for who they are and how they live, but I haven't really gotten any.

My father who was a minister in both the North and South (moved around by his church back in the day) and struggled with this issue. Why are people racists? What is so dark and evil in their hearts and souls?

Back then, his question was, how can white people in the South who at that time were raised by Black women who loved them as much as their birth mothers harbor so much contempt and hate for people just based on skin color? How do you change those deep-seated and irrational attitudes?

It's a mystery. There is no rhyme nor reason for it.

Other than the view that in order to justify the slavery practiced by their ancestors and the exploitation of Black people in their own society, they had to create the myth that Black people were worth less than they were. That is the only one I have been able to figure out. And that view is based on the economic valuation of one human being as worth less, intrinsically worth less than another. I don't hold that view, but it is the only one that I can figure out upon which racists base their racism. If anyone has any other explanation, I would like to know it.

So racism is basically economics. The racist views people who have different skin colors or cultures than their own as worth less in terms not just of money but in terms of human value. That is essentially an economic formulation. That is essentially placing a value on one life versus another based on the color of the skin. And I think that may be what underlies racism. Please do respond to me if you think I am wrong. Because I am exploring this theory and would appreciate feedback.

So, I ask you. Could it be that the fundamental rationalization of racists is there idea that their white life is somehow economically of higher value than those of Black people?

Until someone can tell me a better way to end racism than through economics, I'm going to go with economic equality. It certainly won't solve the problem by itself, but what tools do we have? What else can we do?

We've been trying to change hearts and minds since the 1960s and way before, and we have not made sufficient progress although we have made some.

Economic issues DO play a role in racism. That's my view as a white person. White people who want to feel superior, who have such a low opinion of themselves that they use race to make themselves feel superior, are the problem. I think that economic solutions will not change the whole equation, but certainly will change one element of the equation.

Anyway, I promised myself I would not get into any more discussions about race on DU because they always end up badly. But I'm here again. I do want to say that I am posting this as a means of dialogue and discussion and I apologize deeply if anything I have said offends any person of good character. If it offends racists, so be it. But I do not post it in order to tell other people what they should think or to make others feel bad. I post it to develop and ongoing dialogue that is very important and that should not end in our giving up on trying to communicate with each other.

If you disagree with me, please view my post as a sort of question to you. If my theory is wrong, then how do you explain racism?

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Yep. Red Knight Jul 2015 #1
That obligation falls on both sides of the divide we mean to avoid. Betty Karlson Jul 2015 #27
I agree with the sentiment of your idea, but Admiral Loinpresser Jul 2015 #99
I am not a PoC, but I do happen to be gay. Betty Karlson Jul 2015 #110
Thank you for your genteel approach Admiral Loinpresser Jul 2015 #119
Then maybe you too can teach me a thing or two. Betty Karlson Jul 2015 #128
You have a valid point. Admiral Loinpresser Jul 2015 #132
Well, we can all do our little part. Betty Karlson Jul 2015 #134
It's hard for Black people to understand what is obvious to white progressives: that JDPriestly Jul 2015 #43
What black people understand, that white progressives don't get is psychmommy Jul 2015 #50
I appreciate your answer. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #83
I agree that your issues are important and your comment about your merrily Jul 2015 #114
It's hard for Black people to understand what is obvious to white progressives DonCoquixote Jul 2015 #60
You may be surprised, but I agree with virtually all you say. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #85
So you basically think that every black person, because of their skin color CreekDog Jul 2015 #138
"It's hard for Black people to understand what is obvious to white progressives: that Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #63
Amen!!... The effects of racism should be mitigated. uponit7771 Jul 2015 #92
I have a white friend. Two of her (white) children have been convicted of drug offenses. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #108
Prop 47 in CA Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #131
ARE YOU FOR REAL WITH THE TITLE OF YOUR POST? Are you actually saying black people don't . . . brush Jul 2015 #129
Wait, you think black people don't understand the interrelationships of race and class? LeftyMom Jul 2015 #133
It's hard for women to understand what is obvious to male progressives. Gormy Cuss Jul 2015 #137
yep again daybranch Jul 2015 #65
Divide-and-conquer is the name of the game... polichick Jul 2015 #2
Yep, socialist is another divisve word they'll use a lot. lark Jul 2015 #13
We support DEMOCRATIC socialists! cascadiance Jul 2015 #18
I have no issue with Democratic Socialist, lark Jul 2015 #22
I think we are witnessing this "socialism is bad" meme starting to die like Limbaugh's show is... cascadiance Jul 2015 #40
Bank on it, lark. You are spot-on. calimary Jul 2015 #139
Yet some are STILL too blind to see hifiguy Jul 2015 #31
I don't think you can put the cart before the horse... Little Star Jul 2015 #3
But the killers of those black youths are supported by the riches of the PTB. The two issues are jwirr Jul 2015 #25
I think you may have it backwards. OrwellwasRight Jul 2015 #70
He or she is saying you can't work a job if you've been shot at age 12 for brandishing a toy gun or merrily Jul 2015 #125
I get that. OrwellwasRight Jul 2015 #142
Fixing the economy is irrelevant to people who are dead. merrily Jul 2015 #144
Once again: racism doesn't exist in a vacuum. OrwellwasRight Aug 2015 #153
Don't presume.nt merrily Aug 2015 #154
You either. OrwellwasRight Aug 2015 #155
Agree. I also agree that being economically secure and black does not mean you won't suffer merrily Jul 2015 #118
K & R. Great post, Reich says it so well. In his conclusion Bernie also emphasized for appalachiablue Jul 2015 #4
OT--what is an "undocumented American"? TwilightGardener Jul 2015 #5
Less offensive version of "illegal immigrant" (nt) jeff47 Jul 2015 #15
I've never seen that term used before. Usually it's undocumented immigrant. TwilightGardener Jul 2015 #21
According to Trump Plucketeer Jul 2015 #19
Yeahup.... daleanime Jul 2015 #33
Kentuck: It needs a link....! KoKo Jul 2015 #6
+10 ~nt~ 99th_Monkey Jul 2015 #11
Sorry. kentuck Jul 2015 #16
Thanks for link! 1,732 people gave it a Like! KoKo Jul 2015 #23
Doesn't the "divide"/"split" come when one group ignores/belittles ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #7
Always right.... Stellar Jul 2015 #14
Where did he say it was? zipplewrath Jul 2015 #20
Have you not seen the "BLM=divivise/wedge issue" threads? ... If not ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #41
Cross thread attribution? zipplewrath Jul 2015 #47
If the divide... MellowDem Jul 2015 #38
You would think so "the solution is just to focus on that issue more until people are satisfied." stevenleser Jul 2015 #52
The fact the other candidate get a free pass on all these issues AgingAmerican Jul 2015 #53
Who has gotten a free pass? O'Malley was also confronted. I am sure at her next open conference stevenleser Jul 2015 #54
Hillary gets a free pass AgingAmerican Jul 2015 #56
No, she isn't getting a free pass. But keep dismissing BLM. Everything is about protecting Bernie stevenleser Jul 2015 #58
So when was Hillary confronted with these issues? AgingAmerican Jul 2015 #59
LOL. And again. stevenleser Jul 2015 #61
When BLM decide to confront her. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #102
Not bloody likely. Clinton events, like those of Republicans, are very heavily controlled eridani Jul 2015 #112
Hillary will not be confronted. OrwellwasRight Jul 2015 #67
That's what those 'ropes' are for. L0oniX Jul 2015 #69
I bet after this, the Hillary camp will keep an even tighter control her "rallies". progressoid Jul 2015 #73
They're focused on the politics of it all... MellowDem Jul 2015 #55
Part of what fascinates me about all of this is that LGBT activists have met so very much criticism Bluenorthwest Jul 2015 #82
I have defended code pink for this kind of thing in the past. I criticized tea party for disrupting stevenleser Jul 2015 #94
Double standards are in DUs DNA. merrily Jul 2015 #123
Please see my Reply 118 above. merrily Jul 2015 #120
Agreed The Green Manalishi Jul 2015 #136
pretty sure there are few anti-racist black activists who are like "let's not raise taxes on job geek tragedy Jul 2015 #8
No, but there are plenty of poor whites who say that because jeff47 Jul 2015 #17
"Doing both at the same time" apparently means that PoC shut up about structueral Chakab Jul 2015 #26
What part of "at the same time" is so unfathomable to you? jeff47 Jul 2015 #29
Find me any advocates on black issues or issues affecting any other group of PoC who OPPOSE Chakab Jul 2015 #36
Oh yes, here we go. OrwellwasRight Jul 2015 #45
Well don't hold your breath waiting for them to demand Hillary address race. zeemike Jul 2015 #49
Don't worry I won't be holding my breath. OrwellwasRight Jul 2015 #66
She has a history of solving intractable problems? merrily Jul 2015 #130
See 1SBM above, complaining about "economic primacy" DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2015 #107
No ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #44
Doing both at the same time means AgingAmerican Jul 2015 #57
think again shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #51
K&R and... 99th_Monkey Jul 2015 #9
K & R SoapBox Jul 2015 #10
sure will Racism has been the blot on this country since it began, it's original sin. merrily Jul 2015 #122
Does Bernie Sanders and /or O'Malley, Clinton have ANYBODY that's affiliated with the BLM Stellar Jul 2015 #12
Does Hillary have anyone affiliated with BLM on her staff? Yes she has one black woman but I jwirr Jul 2015 #32
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #46
I'd add two friends of mine, except for one thing DFW Jul 2015 #68
Well. It HAS been noted that some liberals ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #72
I guess. Must be a different crowd from the ones I hang with. DFW Jul 2015 #76
Probably so ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #80
What gave it away? DFW Jul 2015 #97
You are a 1%er ... you don't insult Black DUers ... you support HRc ... take your pick. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #116
In that order: DFW Jul 2015 #126
I've never seen Hillary when she didn't have a black woman at her side. Probably NOT a BLM. Stellar Jul 2015 #74
I agree. jwirr Jul 2015 #77
Politics is a funny business. in 2008, Hillary, who i supported and voted for, was, along with Bill, CentralMass Jul 2015 #106
" tagged with playing the race card during the primary." Stellar Jul 2015 #111
You need Bernie or BLM to find a way to stop cops from killing black folks? DFW Jul 2015 #140
"Tagged with"? Would that be from the candidate of "hardworking people, white people"? n/t eridani Jul 2015 #113
If #BLM really wants, they can see how much they matter under Bush or Walker or Christie or Cruz. Darb Jul 2015 #62
What the heck are you trying to say? Stellar Jul 2015 #79
I think that was the point.. 2banon Jul 2015 #86
Just let Clinton, Sanders and O'Malley ignore them... Stellar Jul 2015 #89
+1, by now all of the campaigns should have sat down with BLM leaders uponit7771 Jul 2015 #93
Lots of African American organizations exist. Maybe, it would be useful to have merrily Jul 2015 #127
Good article. I hope nobody accuses him of "whitesplaining". (nt) Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #24
Agreed. mmonk Jul 2015 #28
The economic stresses of inequality impact marginalized people the hardest. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #30
Republicans are probably already trying to figure out madville Jul 2015 #34
Thom Hartmann is reading this on the air right now. Liberal In Texas Jul 2015 #35
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #37
honestly it's always worrying to assume that the Dems' "big split" is between social and economic MisterP Jul 2015 #39
Yup nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #42
I think Robert is telling it like it is. kentuck Jul 2015 #48
He's right! d_legendary1 Jul 2015 #64
Police killings of White homeless people ... dougolat Jul 2015 #71
It appears they don't matter as much as some other killings seveneyes Jul 2015 #75
are you seriously whining that black victims of police violence get disproportionate attention geek tragedy Jul 2015 #143
Hardly seveneyes Jul 2015 #145
"it appears they don't matter as much as some other killings." geek tragedy Jul 2015 #146
The ones getting more attention seveneyes Jul 2015 #147
which ones are getting more attention? geek tragedy Jul 2015 #148
google is your friend seveneyes Jul 2015 #149
so you can't name a single murder case that gets more geek tragedy Jul 2015 #150
Exactly right. blackspade Jul 2015 #78
Creating a divided and chaotic Democratic party is a great way to ensure we lose in November 2016. pa28 Jul 2015 #81
The divide is already there Kevin from WI Jul 2015 #87
Unfortunately I think you have it right. The divide has been growing and now it's becoming visible. pa28 Jul 2015 #88
Yes, lose as in end up with Hillary Clinton as president davidpdx Jul 2015 #105
Spot On! 2banon Jul 2015 #84
That wedge has been pushed by DU third-wayers PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #90
They are desperate. They hate liberals as passionately as Fox nation does Doctor_J Jul 2015 #98
+1 n/t Admiral Loinpresser Jul 2015 #121
M. L. King, Jr was saying EXACTLY THE SAME THING, Damansarajaya Jul 2015 #91
There you go bringing up MLK again . . . . stranger81 Jul 2015 #101
Supposedly now, MLK and Brother Malcolm are off limits- they belong to only certain people Hydra Jul 2015 #104
HAH! good one nt Damansarajaya Jul 2015 #152
no question the issues are intertwined restorefreedom Jul 2015 #95
The disruptors were clearly playing a role in Clinton's campaign Doctor_J Jul 2015 #96
Yes, it's about time we white people stop causing a divide on racial issues and get on board gollygee Jul 2015 #100
"In short, the Republican strategy has been to divide-and-conquer..." villager Jul 2015 #103
Agree completely. cui bono Jul 2015 #109
Kicked and recommended to the Max! Enthusiast Jul 2015 #115
Spot the fuck on madokie Jul 2015 #117
I have argued (and been flamed) for posting this exact same list on DU for weeks... Sancho Jul 2015 #124
^^^^ +100% ^^^^ Cosmic Kitten Jul 2015 #135
dig it subject Jul 2015 #141
K&R The most important election of all our lives. raouldukelives Jul 2015 #151
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