General Discussion

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)

74. You couldn't be more wrong

Thu Jul 23, 2015, 07:46 AM

Jul 2015

I was a deputy in rural NC, and we only worked the areas outside city limits for most purposes. On a department so small most patrol shifts had 4 deputies on duty per shift (on paper there were 5 per shift, but you more often than not had one person out for injury, vacation, training, court etc.) covering over around 600 square miles.

If a person refused to put out the cigarette it would depend on circumstances and how I read the person. I personally and very sensitive to smoke, and would explain that. If they became hostile and argumentative I may place them in cuffs for my safety for the remainder of the interview, especially if it was looking like it was going to end in an arrest anyway. In the case I mentioned above a person who was just accused by his wife of striking her, who then becomes argumentative when asked to extinguish a cigarette, can be detained in cuffs for the purposes of officer safety. See Graham v. Connor, Michigan v. Summers, Muehler v. Mena and mnay other cases on the subject.

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Should citizens always be submissive to law enforcement officers? [View all] higherarkies Jul 2015 OP

Until we fire EVERY single one of them and replace them with new standards and training randys1 Jul 2015 #1

I'm an elderly white woman and frankly I wouldn't cross them. Cleita Jul 2015 #4

Same with me. I'm a white male with long hair jakedsname Jul 2015 #7

I agree. It's safer to be cooperative, no matter who you are. Chemisse Jul 2015 #8

Yep. RiverLover Jul 2015 #98

I'm the same demographic as you and I wouldn't either. nt raccoon Jul 2015 #125

I ran into a female officer that exuded authoritarianism to the point that I was haikugal Jul 2015 #133

I had a run-in with a female cop during which she got out of her car yelling! Chemisse Jul 2015 #168

Yep! They're out of control...full of themselves and dangerous...they drip aggression. nt haikugal Jul 2015 #169

I do everything I am told during a police stop. No question. yeoman6987 Jul 2015 #48

She didnt and she is now dead. randys1 Jul 2015 #115

serious question... do you listen to the drew and mark radio show? Takket Jul 2015 #2

Glad you aksed. I hope the people that say just be nice to cops read this. bravenak Jul 2015 #3

a man with a gun dragging a woman out of her car. would you hire this man for anything? nt msongs Jul 2015 #6

Hell no. bravenak Jul 2015 #13

It seems like it would be a choice LWolf Jul 2015 #16

He is in JAIL now, but I know some of his victims. bravenak Jul 2015 #18

I'm glad he's in jail; LWolf Jul 2015 #21

Grew up in Iowa in white country - the entire police force was arrested for raping girls they pulled jwirr Jul 2015 #179

It's interesting you brought that up Oilwellian Jul 2015 #95

Yep. I still don't know the right answer. bravenak Jul 2015 #97

There is no one right answer to that Lee-Lee Jul 2015 #106

That is a good idea. Never let them move you. bravenak Jul 2015 #109

I wouldn't use the term 'submssive,' elleng Jul 2015 #5

I'm a senior - the 2 or 3 times I was 840high Jul 2015 #52

Yes it is, elleng Jul 2015 #55

That's exactly why you should double down on the politeness and humility Cleita Jul 2015 #134

It pays well to play their game. It's just really the smart way out of a ticket. YOHABLO Jul 2015 #9

"It works for everyone" BALONEY! BillZBubb Jul 2015 #12

Do you have any evidence TeddyR Jul 2015 #20

Start listening to black people. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #28

Yeah TeddyR Jul 2015 #36

WTF are you blathering on about. U4ikLefty Jul 2015 #51

seriously! the denial is ridiculous Solomon Jul 2015 #75

Yup. beevul Jul 2015 #78

Maybe You Are More RobinA Jul 2015 #82

now see, this is why I shouldn't have said anything. Solomon Jul 2015 #124

I imagine a lot of German citizens said the same kind of things in 1936. Maedhros Jul 2015 #130

"They Thought They Were Free" : tblue37 Jul 2015 #152

Odd that-- I'm getting that same precise sense in regards to your sincerity. LanternWaste Jul 2015 #175

And this happens to you, what, once in a blue moon? Flying Squirrel Jul 2015 #60

You appear to be confusing submissiveness with simply being polite... LanternWaste Jul 2015 #174

Anyone resisting arrest (except very rare cases) either wants trouble seveneyes Jul 2015 #10

This CANDO Jul 2015 #45

...^ that 840high Jul 2015 #53

"Submissive" has a H2O Man Jul 2015 #11

Submissive is what is required when dealing with many of these police goons. BillZBubb Jul 2015 #14

Sometimes polite and respectful only prompts the officer to push harder. Maedhros Jul 2015 #131

Agreed. BillZBubb Jul 2015 #138

True. H2O Man Jul 2015 #157

Oh, I agree. Maedhros Jul 2015 #159

Respectful, yes. "Submissive"? Hmmm. MH1 Jul 2015 #15

A "Yessa Massa" may or may not get you beat or killed. nc4bo Jul 2015 #17

Should they instead fight the guy with a gun, a taser, and backup en route? NightWatcher Jul 2015 #19

There's a pretty big gap between dropping to your knees and giving a blow job pnwmom Jul 2015 #22

I'm not sure that Bland's responses to the police stopping her ever rose to the level of back-talk. LanternWaste Jul 2015 #176

Getting into a pissing contest with a cop is a losing proposition 99.9% of the time Lurks Often Jul 2015 #23

You should know the law, and do whats legally required. Lee-Lee Jul 2015 #24

The whole point of the stop was to catch her in something Kingofalldems Jul 2015 #25

Whether you like it or not TeddyR Jul 2015 #26

That has nothing to do with what I posted. Kingofalldems Jul 2015 #27

Agreed TeddyR Jul 2015 #37

It's much worse than jaywalking Reter Jul 2015 #41

Same here. What the heck do people 840high Jul 2015 #54

I Thought RobinA Jul 2015 #83

And whether you like it or not, she was baited into doing so. LanternWaste Jul 2015 #177

Actually written warnings serve a purpose over verbal Lee-Lee Jul 2015 #33

Except he had to start some shit with her before handing Kingofalldems Jul 2015 #34

Both of them got agitated. 840high Jul 2015 #67

"Incorrect." beevul Jul 2015 #65

It's case law, well stablished Lee-Lee Jul 2015 #71

I'll believe it when I see it. beevul Jul 2015 #72

You couldn't be more wrong Lee-Lee Jul 2015 #74

I was thinking more of a turn signal violation. beevul Jul 2015 #77

FWIW Lee-Lee Jul 2015 #85

Try making that argument... beevul Jul 2015 #136

The pen is needed as part of the stop Lee-Lee Jul 2015 #156

Under the exact circumstances of the Bland stop? I very much doubt it. beevul Jul 2015 #158

If you rufuse and I feel its detrimental to me conducting the stop Lee-Lee Jul 2015 #164

Right. In other words... beevul Jul 2015 #166

Graham v. Connor, Michigan v. Summers, Muehler v. Mena aquamarina Jul 2015 #180

Keep in mind in may vary according to state law Lurks Often Jul 2015 #79

Of that I have no doubt. beevul Jul 2015 #80

all I know is what I would do Skittles Jul 2015 #29

There are several dynamics that come into play. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #30

Good post. hamsterjill Jul 2015 #120

There is a cop in Oklahoma who raped dozens of women who followed his orders CBGLuthier Jul 2015 #31

Agreed TeddyR Jul 2015 #38

Because the QUESTION was should you always follow LEO's orders CBGLuthier Jul 2015 #39

How do you know he killed her? Reter Jul 2015 #42

I must have missed that he killed her. 840high Jul 2015 #57

No, ot depends on dynamics involved, it's situational, AuntPatsy Jul 2015 #32

HELL NO!!! It's better to KNOW YOUR RIGHTS and you can use them against a jackboot! n/t Ghost in the Machine Jul 2015 #35

No. Sandra should have never exited her car. 7wo7rees Jul 2015 #40

Very bad advice. nt COLGATE4 Jul 2015 #47

Terrible advice. 840high Jul 2015 #58

Sorry you two, I am not wrong. Call your attorney. 7wo7rees Jul 2015 #62

Yes I have an attorney. I also 840high Jul 2015 #66

Police experts say they have the right to ask you to get out of your car... Phentex Jul 2015 #94

There have been 2 US Supreme Court decisions affirming the right of police PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #96

Yes. I am one. COLGATE4 Jul 2015 #102

Wow - I'm sorry, but that is worst legal advice I've seen in some time. Call an attourney??! Good jonno99 Jul 2015 #113

Refusing to exit your car is a crime. You can be arrested for that alone. Xithras Jul 2015 #144

Is that the law firm of mythology Jul 2015 #149

thank you, 7wo7rees. She knew her rights, but should have requested a chief soon as cop started his Sunlei Jul 2015 #129

If they want to live to see another day curlyred Jul 2015 #43

How not to get your ass kicked by the police Reter Jul 2015 #44

Rock on 840high Jul 2015 #59

Classic. KentuckyWoman Jul 2015 #70

LOLOL!! "If you have to give a friend a ride, get a white friend" LOLOLOL Sunlei Jul 2015 #114

Sooner or later somewhere incensed people are going to start seeking person revenge against kelliekat44 Jul 2015 #46

I'm pretty sure it ends somewhere short of a fucking blow job. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2015 #49

blowjob? hyperbole much? but to answer your question, In general, yes. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #50

Substitute the words "submissive to" with "cooperative with". WillowTree Jul 2015 #56

No. Lint Head Jul 2015 #61

Submissive? No. beevul Jul 2015 #63

Agree 100% RobinA Jul 2015 #117

When pulled over, every cop I've ever met has asked one of two questions; lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #127

I completely agree with this post and particularly: Quayblue Jul 2015 #160

Bite it clean off and let the fucker explain to the judge how this happened Zorra Jul 2015 #64

Yes. Do what the cop wants, and file a complaint later, if appropriate. Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #68

Wrong fight. KentuckyWoman Jul 2015 #69

I mirror their behavior. If they're nice, I'm the nicest guy in the world. Taitertots Jul 2015 #73

no, police are not allowed to even open your car door! Sunlei Jul 2015 #76

Per a Supreme Court decision a police officer can order you out of your car at a traffic stop. PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #84

they have to give a reason to detain a person beyond the traffic stop. , a charge. Sunlei Jul 2015 #86

The traffic stop is the reason and is a detention Lee-Lee Jul 2015 #88

the traffic stop is over after the police officer runs every computer check to see if their 'catch' Sunlei Jul 2015 #91

Yes- the stop is over once the officer has concluded it Lee-Lee Jul 2015 #92

Thank you,so legal and polite. OR I"LL LIGHT YOU UP !!!! Sunlei Jul 2015 #132

"Since that had not happened yet, the stop was not over and she was still detained." beevul Jul 2015 #137

No Lee-Lee Jul 2015 #155

really stupid of police to ask why someone is upset! It's because a cop stopped them, duh! Sunlei Jul 2015 #167

No. The traffic stop itself is enough to lawfully order a person out of the car. PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #90

nope, that police officer violated the womans civil rights,trumped up a punishment felony charge to Sunlei Jul 2015 #93

And you're basing this categorical assertion COLGATE4 Jul 2015 #104

everything he did to her violated her rights, including the profiling to stop in the first place. Sunlei Jul 2015 #111

It Didn't Look Like RobinA Jul 2015 #116

they can run the plate before they even stop 'some' people. a police car was behind her, before she Sunlei Jul 2015 #118

It Looked To Me RobinA Jul 2015 #122

I used to live in Bellaire, texas and see their police make the 'cheap stops' all day long right Sunlei Jul 2015 #126

You're just making a series of conclusory and legally COLGATE4 Jul 2015 #141

"his actions in orderering her out of the car and to extinguish her cigarette are all perfectly..." beevul Jul 2015 #147

It's like a cop telling you "stand up by the car, OK?" COLGATE4 Jul 2015 #150

It should be. beevul Jul 2015 #151

Unfortunately, the average person's idea of how the law and COLGATE4 Jul 2015 #153

White Middle-Aged RobinA Jul 2015 #81

It's all a matter of respect... kentuck Jul 2015 #87

I might be stepping out on this one, but, nilesobek Jul 2015 #89

Wow! What a story! kentuck Jul 2015 #103

That was Idaho and I was underage at the time. nilesobek Jul 2015 #170

When they brought me to court, finally, 3 weeks later, nilesobek Jul 2015 #172

Yes, your life will depend on it. Even then, there is no promise that you will keep breathing. Rex Jul 2015 #99

I know. I think I would rather be out in the open where someone might see me Phentex Jul 2015 #100

Me too. I would be very careful and slow to move an inch. Rex Jul 2015 #101

Always? Well, if I know I was in the wrong (speeding, not full-stopping, etc.), why would I jonno99 Jul 2015 #105

Why ask to put out a cig, it is her car and he pulled her over. Rex Jul 2015 #110

Agreed - he over-reacted. But common courtesy informs that you put out your cig...nt jonno99 Jul 2015 #112

I Don't Think RobinA Jul 2015 #121

Thanks - you make sense. nt jonno99 Jul 2015 #123

I think you are spot on. Rex Jul 2015 #145

That argument falls flat on its face. beevul Jul 2015 #148

There is an interesting thread now in GD, suggesting the officer made unlawful orders Rex Jul 2015 #143

The Q is- why should they have to act meek and comply with abuse! bettyellen Jul 2015 #107

I follow guidlines such as those from Flex Your Rights, a group that seeks to expand the Bluenorthwest Jul 2015 #108

I know these guys. This is great information. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #119

an aquaintence in law enforecement shared these tips with me HFRN Jul 2015 #128

All of that is excellent advice and should be taken COLGATE4 Jul 2015 #146

Thank you. higherarkies Jul 2015 #135

Being Dead Right isn't much of a victory. One_Life_To_Give Jul 2015 #139

I told my kids "never argue with a man who uses a gun" mikehiggins Jul 2015 #140

No. Iggo Jul 2015 #142

Sandra Bland's only mistake was treating Encinia like an adult BeyondGeography Jul 2015 #154

Furthermore, she didn't refuse to put it out maxsolomon Jul 2015 #162

She was extremely reasonable BeyondGeography Jul 2015 #165

I mentor a group of young, (mostly) Black, males ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #161

Yes. It's very galling, but you don't win fighting cops on the street. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #171

I think that may be the biggest misunderstanding of LEO's? kentuck Jul 2015 #173

No, and record the whole interaction realFedUp Jul 2015 #163

Be polite and respectful, yes. n/t Lil Missy Jul 2015 #178

check out this link: cloudythescribbler Jul 2015 #181

I gave them shit when I was younger Go Vols Jul 2015 #182

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2015 #183