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Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)

95. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_control

Reply to Throd (Reply #94)

Thu Jul 23, 2015, 08:45 PM

Jul 2015

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_control

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To End Racism and Police Brutality, End Capitalism! [View all] AOR Jul 2015 OP

barter, swap, and trade will get rid of the racists. nice to know nt msongs Jul 2015 #1

Police States come in all flavors. Downwinder Jul 2015 #2

LOL SunSeeker Jul 2015 #3

Last time I checked the UK was a capitalist country. Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #4

They still have plenty of racism Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #5

so does Cuba , probably even worse in cuba JI7 Jul 2015 #9

Who said anything about Cuba? I thought we were talking about ending capitalism? Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #10

what does that mean ? ending capitalism and replacing it with what ? JI7 Jul 2015 #11

Workers control, community control, democracy Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #12

can you give examples where it has happened and racism or other bigotry went away ? JI7 Jul 2015 #14

There are zero examples of capitalism ending racism. Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #17

or maybe just focusing on ending racism in itself and acknowledging JI7 Jul 2015 #18

I agree we should focus on that. Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #21

Racism existed long before capitalism davidn3600 Jul 2015 #26

So you're talking about the psychology problem, like what makes people have hate in their heart ? Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #29

it's cultural also, the racist cops and others don't always benefit financially themselves JI7 Jul 2015 #32

Social Identity Theory davidn3600 Jul 2015 #39

Your timeline is messed up davidn3600 Jul 2015 #33

I don't think so. Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #37

That's for you. Igel Jul 2015 #56

If we debate definitions we will not have time to discuss the heart of the issue Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #61

+1 AOR Jul 2015 #15

In other words FrodosPet Jul 2015 #53

Workers control of production. Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #54

"Workers control of production" Those are just words strung together. Throd Jul 2015 #94

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_control Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #95

How is that any different from an HOA Telcontar Jul 2015 #174

Very different actually, and you start with how this works nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #180

Um, that is some cirxular reasoning Telcontar Jul 2015 #199

You don't nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #203

Worker owned cooperatives and banks, democratic workplaces, living wages, etc. Dont call me Shirley Jul 2015 #74

Social democracy. nt hifiguy Jul 2015 #124

Ask black Cubans about that one. BainsBane Jul 2015 #6

yup, i was waiting for actual examples JI7 Jul 2015 #8

If you think racism in Cuba is bad you should take a look at the United States, it's 100 times worse Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #22

Take a look at the US? BainsBane Jul 2015 #23

Are you talking about psychology, like what makes people have hate in their heart ? Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #25

No, i'm talking about racism that developed out of slavery BainsBane Jul 2015 #42

I think you are confusing slave mode of production with slave as commodity in capitalist system. Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #44

Pre-modern day slave societies had ZERO to do... AOR Jul 2015 #27

"free labor" BainsBane Jul 2015 #31

I think you are confusing slave mode of production with slave as commodity in capitalist system. Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #41

Orthodox Marxism defines capitalism BainsBane Jul 2015 #46

There are free wage laborers in this picture Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #50

The problem is that Marx never talked of Slavery as more than just a primitive form nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #198

More nonsense from you Nadin... AOR Jul 2015 #201

Go there, here, you are not going to make any headway nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #209

Please stop with the world-salad... AOR Jul 2015 #51

Read Capitalism and Slavery by Eric Williams... AOR Jul 2015 #43

For a less reductionist Marxist take on race BainsBane Jul 2015 #7

Parsing and dicing Bains... AOR Jul 2015 #13

what is the historical reality which shows end of capitalism resulted in end of racism JI7 Jul 2015 #16

Institutionilized racism is a by-product... AOR Jul 2015 #20

Provide evidence BainsBane Jul 2015 #38

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2015 #106

You mean the actual *American* left nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #181

And again more nonsense from you... AOR Jul 2015 #202

Quoting from the small sector of the American left that is despised nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #204

Lol that was a few of hundreds... AOR Jul 2015 #207

No he did not nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #212

Yes, actually BainsBane Jul 2015 #19

"Cultural Marxists"... AOR Jul 2015 #24

Proves me wrong about what? BainsBane Jul 2015 #28

would you consider "will twain" a scholar ? JI7 Jul 2015 #30

OMG BainsBane Jul 2015 #35

not totally sure yet JI7 Jul 2015 #45

He keeps using my DU name BainsBane Jul 2015 #47

yes, it could be someone other than WT JI7 Jul 2015 #48

Try this Twain... AOR Jul 2015 #52

More like operating on a view of Marxism... AOR Jul 2015 #36

Spare me BainsBane Jul 2015 #40

Lol, you're the one that's flailing Bains... AOR Jul 2015 #49

Uh huh zappaman Jul 2015 #157

Let us not take our bitterness out on poor Larry.... AOR Jul 2015 #161

I love, Larry. zappaman Jul 2015 #162

Shemp was the best zappaman.... AOR Jul 2015 #165

Now you're just being silly. zappaman Jul 2015 #166

Nah, Shemp and Curley were my favorites... AOR Jul 2015 #169

To end capitalism, end racism (nt) Recursion Jul 2015 #34

Capitalism came before racism. So your cute inversion makes no sense. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #57

No, it didn't. Not at all. Recursion Jul 2015 #58

European imperialism is a form of capitalism. Odd attempt at refutation. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #62

Can you provide dates as to when each started? Throd Jul 2015 #63

It's a silly request. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #64

A silly request in response to a silly statement. Throd Jul 2015 #85

Scarcity is a byproduct of reality. Taitertots Jul 2015 #55

I agree, so when are the SWAT raids start at college campuses nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #67

Isn't it implied that "the offenders" are bad cops? Taitertots Jul 2015 #72

No it is not nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #73

Or, we could work on both. It's not a zero-sum game. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #59

Hi Starry Messenger... AOR Jul 2015 #65

End capitalism? AS IF we are still a nation that practices capitalism! Not even close. Rex Jul 2015 #60

Marxism is a failed economic and political theory. eom Kurska Jul 2015 #66

Pure Right Wing talking point and sloganeering... AOR Jul 2015 #75

No, it's just a fact. Dustbin of history and all that. Throd Jul 2015 #84

He's dead, Jim LittleBlue Jul 2015 #93

Okay, show me where Marxism hasn't failed. Kurska Jul 2015 #98

Lol, it's up to me to show you absolutely nothing... AOR Jul 2015 #99

It's not 'red-baiting' when you started a thread proclaiming the superiority of Marxist ideas muriel_volestrangler Jul 2015 #107

Not a single person in this thread that subscribes... AOR Jul 2015 #111

The extreme "left" (marxists) are the same as the extreme right (fascists). Kurska Jul 2015 #115

Your fear of Marx is a caricature you've created in your mind... AOR Jul 2015 #117

Libertarians make pretty much the same argument Major Nikon Jul 2015 #137

The few examples of Socialism... AOR Jul 2015 #167

Well you certainly make a compelling argument Major Nikon Jul 2015 #170

I love doctrinaire Marxists nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #179

Yes Syriza is a shining example of what your New Economy will look like Nadin Imao.... AOR Jul 2015 #183

Marx will not be it nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #184

Not proposing any solution Major Nikon... AOR Jul 2015 #182

So modern day American marxists have also given up on being at the forefront of the strugle nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #185

Many varieties of leftists... AOR Jul 2015 #189

Yup and you are a marxist espousing Marxist ideas nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #193

Nah, just a worker and sometimes member of the lumpen group... AOR Jul 2015 #200

The difference between you and Reed is that he actually nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #205

You have ZERO idea what I do... AOR Jul 2015 #208

Well, I am not part of your utopia, so that is fine nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #214

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2015 #108

Tell you the same thing I tell religious folks... Positrons Jul 2015 #112

Lol... I made no claims whatsoever... AOR Jul 2015 #113

The article is offering Marxism as a solution. Kurska Jul 2015 #114

You certainly have all the talking points and slogans... AOR Jul 2015 #118

This isn't "MarxismUnderground" friend Kurska Jul 2015 #121

Marx has been discussed here for years in General Discussion... AOR Jul 2015 #122

"Marxism in the answer" Kurska Jul 2015 #126

You've offered up very little in your replies... AOR Jul 2015 #129

True, you don't really have to support your assertions Major Nikon Jul 2015 #136

Lol...I wouldn't hang my hat... AOR Jul 2015 #154

And yet you hang your hat on ad hominem Major Nikon Jul 2015 #158

One liners won't help you make your case... AOR Jul 2015 #160

You think your case is going all that well? Major Nikon Jul 2015 #164

Not making a case... AOR Jul 2015 #172

Only problem with this is... nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #68

Slavery yes....institutionalized racism no... AOR Jul 2015 #77

I disagree nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #78

I asked you for research and historical AOR Jul 2015 #83

My opinion is based on history nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #86

Class based discrimination... AOR Jul 2015 #88

Go ahead and continue to believe that nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #91

Sounds nice, but it's not going to happen in this country. MineralMan Jul 2015 #69

You ignore history to make such a claim... AOR Jul 2015 #79

Karl Marx is long dead. MineralMan Jul 2015 #87

Right Wing talking point and disguised red-baiting... AOR Jul 2015 #90

LOL! MineralMan Jul 2015 #96

"Right Wing talking point and disguised red-baiting..." EX500rider Jul 2015 #102

You may also see post 80 for response... AOR Jul 2015 #104

"Show me a successful Marxist country" is not a question that has any relevance....." EX500rider Jul 2015 #120

Again Marx is a critique of the oppressive relationship.... AOR Jul 2015 #123

Just an FYI. Marx would not recognize a lot of the nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #131

Oh, I'm sure that's true. MineralMan Jul 2015 #132

Oh they would and do nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #134

Then why bother Nadin ? AOR Jul 2015 #133

Now that is quite hysterical nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #135

The hysterics belong to you... AOR Jul 2015 #138

And here is the problem nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #139

What is real and what is illusion matters Nadin... AOR Jul 2015 #140

Well, then don't be too surprised nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #141

I'm not disappointed in the reaction in the least... AOR Jul 2015 #142

Those sites you mention alas...are not part of the new left nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #143

You're not paying attention... AOR Jul 2015 #145

Alas none speaks this way nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #147

It would seem Capitalism is what has failed... AOR Jul 2015 #148

Once again nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #149

Please there is only one form of Capitalism... AOR Jul 2015 #150

Even Marx and Engels were a tad more astute than that (A lot more) nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #152

Can't answer the question Nadin ? AOR Jul 2015 #153

The short answer is we don't know yet nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #155

We don't know yet ? AOR Jul 2015 #159

Sorry to disappoint you nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #177

It's very simple Nadin... AOR Jul 2015 #186

This is quite hilarious nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #187

You are embarrassing yourself... AOR Jul 2015 #190

NAh, I just realize that capitalist relations are getting replaced nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #192

Being replaced as we speak ? AOR Jul 2015 #195

Yes, it is nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #196

Word salad is not clarity... AOR Jul 2015 #206

When we cannot dispute nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #216

So no Mom & Pop stores. No technology. No furniture that you don't build yourself. randome Jul 2015 #70

The discussion is the critque of capitalist social relations... AOR Jul 2015 #80

Which people? Because the collective will never come to true consensus on anything specific. FrodosPet Jul 2015 #178

You ignore the history of social change... AOR Jul 2015 #191

Bigotry and racism have existed always, there were ethnic purges and pogroms in ancient times. Bluenorthwest Jul 2015 #71

Bigotry against different culture probably...institutionlized racism... not even close. AOR Jul 2015 #81

A winning campaign strategy!!! MADem Jul 2015 #76

Very large fail... AOR Jul 2015 #82

I'll pass on the whole end capitalism thing n/t taught_me_patience Jul 2015 #89

Pretty sure it's not about what you decide to pass on... n/t AOR Jul 2015 #92

So unaware and disconnected. LiberalAndProud Jul 2015 #97

Care to expand on the "glaring blind spot that simply isn't true" ? AOR Jul 2015 #100

LEOs Exist To Protect And Serve The 1% cantbeserious Jul 2015 #101

Indeed they do... AOR Jul 2015 #105

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2015 #109

Marxist.com? Dot COM? JHB Jul 2015 #103

You are offering a personal opinion... AOR Jul 2015 #110

OP fail. zappaman Jul 2015 #116

I figured it would be a stretch thinking posting... AOR Jul 2015 #119

How does one end capitalism? oberliner Jul 2015 #125

Fight,organize,and agitate for Labor over Capital in all things... AOR Jul 2015 #127

That seems a little vague oberliner Jul 2015 #128

None of us has the power individually... AOR Jul 2015 #130

No offense, but that's not a plan. Adrahil Jul 2015 #213

In the defense of the rest of the left... nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #217

I appreciate that..... Adrahil Jul 2015 #221

Well I posted a few years back nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #224

Excellent! Thanks again. Adrahil Jul 2015 #233

Just a fair warming. It is one dense book nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #234

The entire history of capitalist social relations... AOR Jul 2015 #223

More commedy nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #225

Don't you dare tell me you're out of words Nadin... AOR Jul 2015 #228

Nah, just finding you quite humorous at this point nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #229

Yep, lets take a break I want to read other things... AOR Jul 2015 #232

That is like saying that the Abolitionists shouldn't have denounced slavery... AOR Jul 2015 #218

Not even CLOSE to the same. Adrahil Jul 2015 #222

Better to leave things just as they are then... AOR Jul 2015 #227

When you carrying pictures of Chairman Mao..... Adrahil Jul 2015 #235

How long have me heard these platitudes ? AOR Jul 2015 #236

Except that abolitionists had a plan nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #226

The US Titantic is heading for the iceberg... AOR Jul 2015 #230

And then will come the glorious revolution nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #231

Indymedia comes to DU!!! BKH70041 Jul 2015 #144

Reality... AOR Jul 2015 #146

Suuuuuuuuure it is. BKH70041 Jul 2015 #175

This is just utterly silly and unsubstantiated nonsense mythology Jul 2015 #151

Has nothing to do "trying Marxism"... AOR Jul 2015 #156

Living in the U.S.S.R., wasn't too pleasant. They got rid of capitalism and their system collapsed. demosincebirth Jul 2015 #163

The discussion is about Capitalism... AOR Jul 2015 #168

So? demosincebirth Jul 2015 #171

So...if you have nothing of substance to add... AOR Jul 2015 #173

Agree to Disagree - I'm a capitalist - n/t JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #176

Nothing wrong with that JustAnotherGen... AOR Jul 2015 #211

You are very brave. TBF Jul 2015 #188

Hi TBF... AOR Jul 2015 #194

Except to you nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #197

The KKE are the actual left in Greece... AOR Jul 2015 #210

More high commedy nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #220

The author has some good points but... WDIM Jul 2015 #215

The cops are in place for one reason... AOR Jul 2015 #219