General Discussion

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

32. I do too and that is why I penned the OP.

Reply to uppityperson (Reply #31)

Fri May 18, 2012, 01:02 PM

May 2012

There are at least 5-6 people who show up in most of the Trayvon threads who seem to think Zimmerman is innocent.

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Zimmerman apologists always run into same problem. Person minding their own business ended up dead. [View all] stevenleser May 2012 OP

Zimmerman is morally responsible for the death because he initiated and pursued the confrontation slackmaster May 2012 #1

EXACTLY. Whether he is legally responsible or not, under the laws of the state and country, MH1 May 2012 #6

he is totally morally responsible... belcffub May 2012 #15

IMO he made a series of bad decisions slackmaster May 2012 #18

+1 Logical May 2012 #100

Assuming Zimmerman's story is true (I know, incredibly big assumption), Vattel May 2012 #66

There's no proof of that treestar May 2012 #73

I didn't claim that there was proof. Vattel May 2012 #135

I have no words. yardwork May 2012 #80

I didn't say it was Martin's fault. Seriously, can anyone around here read? Vattel May 2012 #137

Blaming Trayvon is like Blaming the Rape Victim JI7 May 2012 #132

How much blame falls on Martin depends on what actually happened. Vattel May 2012 #136

Wait, which "idiot" are you talking about? Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #140

Well you didn't get your facts straight, but that's par for the course on this issue. Vattel May 2012 #143

"but they do not have the right to any particular response or any response at all. " ScreamingMeemie May 2012 #2

Thank you...Been saying that endlessly from day one Blue_Tires May 2012 #3

But in Florida, we have anti-stalking laws. It is illegal to follow someone. 1monster May 2012 #84

Read Florida criminal statute 784.048, amandabeech May 2012 #110

Fla. Stat. § 784.048. Stalking; definitions; penalties. (2008) 1monster May 2012 #123

Have you ever followed someone in your car because you were lost? Life Long Dem May 2012 #122

This guy wasn't lost. I managed to get away from him a couple of times by 1monster May 2012 #145

You heard the expression before: walking while black. Solomon May 2012 #4

What worries me is the jury. Will they try the case in another venue? Will they asjr May 2012 #5

remember OJ got off!! Sancho May 2012 #71

It would not surprise me if O'Mara asked for a change of venue amandabeech May 2012 #112

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe May 2012 #7

To stay with your approach, when is it legitimate to attack someone physically for speaking to you ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #8

How is it that YOU happen to know who touched who first? kestrel91316 May 2012 #12

both could have happened belcffub May 2012 #16

No one does...except Zimmerman ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #19

Exactly lukkadairish May 2012 #23

Not so fast there... ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #25

Without lukkadairish May 2012 #36

There is an independent witness that stated ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #43

That witness does not say who started the fight treestar May 2012 #74

Wouldn't the question in such a situation be who made the decision to engage in JDPriestly May 2012 #47

Let's say I live in a neighborhood in which gangs are known to be active. JDPriestly May 2012 #45

So, the "moral" of the story is to be the only witness? TheKentuckian May 2012 #89

I don't believe we need to know exactly what transpired after Flatulo May 2012 #92

The judicial and legal ethics part of my soul just died a little bit... Cave_Johnson May 2012 #107

I think that I may understand. n/t amandabeech May 2012 #114

Doesn't really make any difference.. sendero May 2012 #65

Actually it makes a tremendous amount of difference in a criminal case ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #133

The reports of the phone call with Trayvon's girlfriend suggest tblue37 May 2012 #60

Can you point me... Cave_Johnson May 2012 #64

When did Zimmerman take out his gun and put it to Trayvon's chest and shoot? lunatica May 2012 #68

We don't know that treestar May 2012 #72

Then there is the live video footage Rex May 2012 #9

That is one of the things I want to see explained ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #29

It really should, if for no other reason Rex May 2012 #30

I thought that I saw a laceration on the back right-hand quarter of his head in the video. amandabeech May 2012 #115

I wonder why his doctor didn't give him any pain meds? Rex May 2012 #117

I don't remember anything about pain meds, amandabeech May 2012 #121

But that is just an injury, we are talking about a broken nose Rex May 2012 #124

yup maddezmom May 2012 #10

Your penultimate paragraph is where the error lies. Romulox May 2012 #11

One interesting thing about it is that Zimmerman expressed apprehension about JDPriestly May 2012 #50

There is no question that Zimmerman's choices were responsible for Martin's death. hack89 May 2012 #13

True. It could go either way. The OJ trial is a good example of a case JDPriestly May 2012 #51

But what is the burden of proof in FL for claims of self defense? treestar May 2012 #75

Here is the Florida law regarding when the aggressor can legally use force in self-defense. hack89 May 2012 #82

That doesn't say who has the burden of proving it, though treestar May 2012 #87

I've seen nothing to suggest that the DA will be required to disprove the affirmative defense. amandabeech May 2012 #118

I don't think there's a single person here who thinks Zimmerman is innocent. Kaleva May 2012 #14

I do think some here think that.. And not just banned trolls. uppityperson May 2012 #31

I do too and that is why I penned the OP. stevenleser May 2012 #32

Depends on what they think he's inncoent of. Kaleva May 2012 #35

I do too. There's clearly some here who think he's innocent. Solomon May 2012 #54

He is not innocent. There is a good chance he will not be found guilty at trial hack89 May 2012 #62

Hell, I've been called a Zimmerman apologist. Kaleva May 2012 #33

Interesting..."banned trolls" peace pilgrim 19 May 2012 #103

Well, you would know. uppityperson May 2012 #104

That's true treestar May 2012 #76

if you're not with us, then you're against us. There's no in between. Kaleva May 2012 #77

Trouble is, that part is in dispute. nxylas May 2012 #17

good point barbtries May 2012 #20

The only authority that matters is the law hack89 May 2012 #27

he's guilty in my opinion barbtries May 2012 #38

I agree with everything you say. nt hack89 May 2012 #39

thanks hack. barbtries May 2012 #42

the zimmerman apologists are classic authoritarians.. frylock May 2012 #21

Not only that, but it is within their 'rights' to accost random strangers on the street and ask Ikonoklast May 2012 #34

It is not within anyones "rights" to do that. But it is not illegal. nt hack89 May 2012 #41

Actually, that depends on the situation. JDPriestly May 2012 #52

I was referring to following someone and asking what they were doing. hack89 May 2012 #57

If a stranger followed me and asked why I was doing, I would not answer. JDPriestly May 2012 #59

Not the point hack89 May 2012 #61

No, it's not illegal lolly May 2012 #69

I agree. nt hack89 May 2012 #81

Running away in and of itself is not illegal either, JDPriestly May 2012 #109

All of which means the prosecution has a tough job ahead of them hack89 May 2012 #111

It will come down to which side the judge and jury find convincing. JDPriestly May 2012 #144

If he has credible wounds consistent with ... hack89 May 2012 #146

Nor is it illegal to tell anyone who does so to "Fuck off." Ikonoklast May 2012 #53

I agree hack89 May 2012 #55

that is the only acceptable response frylock May 2012 #46

You mean like Iraq?? RagAss May 2012 #22

EXACTLY like Iraq. nt stevenleser May 2012 #26

I agree. Well said. n/t DLevine May 2012 #24

One fallacy I see repeated a lot is, eyewall May 2012 #28

Re. the phrase "we don't need you to do that"... CJCRANE May 2012 #56

Under Florida statutes, a charge of stalking requires repeated actions. amandabeech May 2012 #119

nobody's talking about a charge of stalking. eyewall May 2012 #147

A broken nose is minding ones business Life Long Dem May 2012 #37

no CatWoman May 2012 #44

Actually Life Long Dem May 2012 #48

What was his business anyway? Rex May 2012 #49

well said. limpyhobbler May 2012 #40

Impersonating a police officer libodem May 2012 #58

When did he ever represent himself to Martin as a police officer? nt hack89 May 2012 #63

Those who have already decided that Zimmerman is guilty always have the same problem. Vattel May 2012 #67

I'm sorry. Is there some question of Zimmerman's responsibility in Martin's death? baldguy May 2012 #125

how do you justify self-defense when you're the initial threat? Blue_Tires May 2012 #126

Following someone because you think they might be up to no good Vattel May 2012 #138

my only issue with that is Blue_Tires May 2012 #139

All very true treestar May 2012 #70

Their biggest problem is that Trayvon was likely to be in greater fear of his life. yardwork May 2012 #78

Here is the Florida law regarding when the aggressor can legally use force in self-defense. hack89 May 2012 #83

Don't forget: the stalker (GZ) was ARMED and CONFRONTATIONAL. daaron May 2012 #79

Trayvon probably had no way of knowing Zimmerman was armed until it was too late slackmaster May 2012 #88

Now the bullies are all armed. daaron May 2012 #102

But for some strange reason, homicides (including by firearm) have been declining for about 18 years slackmaster May 2012 #116

Maybe we're raising our children incrementally better. daaron May 2012 #128

...or just Coincidence? I suspect it's caused by the ongoing increase... slackmaster May 2012 #141

Makes sense. nt daaron May 2012 #142

Following suspicious persons... Youngat50 May 2012 #85

Did your neighbor follow him with a gun in his pocket? Did the dispatcher tell him to continue to ScreamingMeemie May 2012 #90

I don't know if he had a gun, to be honest. Youngat50 May 2012 #93

My husband had a strong protective instinct as well, inside our home. ScreamingMeemie May 2012 #97

But what if.. Youngat50 May 2012 #105

My husband, seeing as the "suspicious" person was not in our home, would have called ScreamingMeemie May 2012 #106

I disagree Youngat50 May 2012 #129

Did Trayvon deserve to die? Simple question. ScreamingMeemie May 2012 #131

Welcome to DU! Fumesucker May 2012 #91

Thanks for the welcome! Youngat50 May 2012 #94

You call 911 to report potholes? Fumesucker May 2012 #96

Depends on where you are.. Youngat50 May 2012 #98

Thanks for the welcome Fumesucker! Youngat50 May 2012 #95

good story, but of course Martin was doing nothing more suspicious that night Blue_Tires May 2012 #127

That would be open to interpretation Youngat50 May 2012 #130

open to interpretation?? Blue_Tires May 2012 #134

Wannabe cop/racsist/vigilante needs to go to jail movingviolation May 2012 #86

You can't goad someone into fighting you and then shoot them. gulliver May 2012 #99

+1000, confronting a guy, then trying to detain him and then he kicks your ass is not.... Logical May 2012 #101

You forget what Zimmerman said to the 911 officer. Maraya1969 May 2012 #108

K&R. n/t jenmito May 2012 #113

It's a problem for both sides. Trayvon could have kept walking as well. However - Zax2me May 2012 #120