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AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
96. I never said human activity doesn't affect climate change. In fact, I specified the opposite.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:59 PM
Jul 2015

I have also specified the mechanism by which we do. You seem fixated on a mechanism that is irrelevant.

In fact, that heat output from reactors is trivial twice. Same way the carbon output of your presumably wood stove in your cabin is. You're just accelerating the process, putting that carbon on a treadmill. Nuclear reactors slightly accelerate the decay heat of the earth. The uranium and other elements we refine into nuclear fuel, and then 'burn' in a criticality, is just accelerating what would have been released as decay waste heat anyway. As I mentioned earlier, the earth's heat budget includes 0.03% from the earth itself, which is radioactive decay heat. Around 47 terawatts.

Humanity burns, all total, about 17 terawatts. That's electrical, not thermal. So, I'll be super-generous to you, more generous than anyone in the history of internet forum arguments ever. I won't deduct from that 17 terawatts any non-earth-thermal-budget contributing power sources. No geothermal, no hydro (considerable percentage), no solar, whether PV or Concentrating Thermal, no wind power, no tidal, no biomass, nothing. I deduct nothing. And then, I'll DOUBLE IT. Say, assuming for thermal loss/inefficiency converting thermal output to electrical output.

That would put human activity at 34 terawatts thermal. That's 86% of the earth's radioactive decay heat portion of the planet's heat budget. Or, LESS than 0.03% of the planet's total heat budget.

That's less than the yearly variance in solar output, of which, makes up more than 99% of the remaining heat budget of planet earth.

The heat, output by those reactors, is less than a popcorn fart compared to the total energy in the system.


But we ARE IN DEEP SHIT. Global Climate Change is well underway, and you need to be stupid and or blind to miss it. On that, we probably agree. But the MECHANISM is insulating gasses and materials that contribute to a greenhouse effect. NOT the heat emitted by various reactors and power plants of other sorts. The greenhouse effect is a force multiplier. CO2, Methane, you name it. It's wrapping our system in a blanket. We're robbing the planet of radiative cooling.

Heat moves off the surface through several means. The most important of which is evaporative. You don't get evaporative cooling if you don't have rainfall. We have vast swaths of the US in drought conditions because changes in climate have diverted atmospheric systems/rainfall to other regions. The other component of the atmospheric heat engine is thermal infrared energy. That's the part that gets reflected back at us when we insulate the earth with shit like CO2. That's where you get your anthropogenic forcing on the climate, leading to changes in climate patterns, things like the droughts we're seeing, and rising record temps in localized areas that used to be damper, used to have more evaporative cooling effect, etc.

You're pissed about statistical noise, which amounts to a couple calories worth of heat generated by a body, when the main effect, the main problem, is wrapping that body in thickening layers of insulation, driving a measurable spike in total heat budget by reducing the radiative cooling of the body.

In other words, you're after the wrong thing.

AND to score some points, you keep building strawmen and attributing completely false shit to what I am saying. That's highly obnoxious. It would be nice if you could argue a point without stooping to lying about my position. Climate change is real. It is human induced. It's just by way of a mechanism you don't seem to understand.

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Son of a.... Xolodno Jul 2015 #1
It is a large-scale extinction event unfolding. nt silvershadow Jul 2015 #15
Are thee any Nuke Power Plants on the Colombia River? bvar22 Jul 2015 #2
from the article...Experts said drought and record heat this summer are behind the high water temper spanone Jul 2015 #3
Yes, I read the article, bvar22 Jul 2015 #6
No they don't raise them a bunch dbackjon Jul 2015 #13
...and "maybe" it is a combination. bvar22 Jul 2015 #19
Heat from the Columbia Generating Station is dissipated into the air Brother Buzz Jul 2015 #26
Nothing EVER "dissipates". bvar22 Jul 2015 #57
But the point is, CGS uses the atmosphere as its ultimate heat sink, not the river. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #58
I disagree. bvar22 Jul 2015 #61
Watt for watt, they do not. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #67
So you admit that NUke Plants run hotter. bvar22 Jul 2015 #69
No, watt for watt they are similar. You don't obviate a watt for watt replacement by AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #76
And heat is never radiated into space Brother Buzz Jul 2015 #64
Some is radiated into space. bvar22 Jul 2015 #73
Human thermal output doesn't add shit to the heat budget of the earth. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #77
Quote: bvar22 Jul 2015 #84
That is some cheap shit right there. Can't refute the point so you decide I must AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #85
Phew. Thanks. bvar22 Jul 2015 #91
I never said human activity doesn't affect climate change. In fact, I specified the opposite. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #96
Ever smoke a bowl then put your hand around it to cool it down? snooper2 Jul 2015 #90
+1 An example of someone with good intentions being confused by facts. hueymahl Jul 2015 #86
So nothing EVER "dissipates" unless it does dissipate, right? Brother Buzz Jul 2015 #80
I was going to let that go, but since the snark, I decided to correct you. bvar22 Jul 2015 #93
Oh, so suddenly you're worried about reflectivity of the atmosphere rather than human thermal activi AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #97
No horse switch. That has always been my contention. bvar22 Jul 2015 #101
Now you're just completely lost. Just stop. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #102
Watt for watt is a dodge. bvar22 Jul 2015 #104
No, they don't burn hotter. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #105
Again, you are trying to rig the results with your "watt for watt' BS. bvar22 Jul 2015 #110
Not for plants with the same wattage output. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #112
Since you have constructed an iron block around your head, bvar22 Jul 2015 #114
Now you're confused about concentration. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #116
That is circular reasoning. bvar22 Jul 2015 #131
You're just spewing nonsense. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #132
Is it harder to put out a fire in a Coal Fired Plant, bvar22 Jul 2015 #139
I just explained that to you. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #141
Learn to expect FAILURE in Nuke Plants. bvar22 Jul 2015 #144
Which of course has nothing to do with the dead fish in the op or the river temp. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #145
Hermiston natural gas power plant downriver from the Columbia generating station AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #107
Stop with the Bull Shit? bvar22 Jul 2015 #115
Post 111, made 40 minutes before you posted this. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #117
Calling for Scientific Research to examine the Colombia River and the rise in heat... bvar22 Jul 2015 #129
The reactor, and the larger number/watts of gas fired generators on the Columbia are monitored by AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #130
You have some serious patience. Nt NCTraveler Jul 2015 #138
This message was self-deleted by its author goonk298 Jul 2015 #148
if you want to take the focus off global warming, you're doing a great job CreekDog Jul 2015 #126
BS. bvar22 Jul 2015 #140
LOL - and all the cigarettes people smoke cause the temperature to rise in the summer dbackjon Jul 2015 #40
of course nuke plants increase the water temp questionseverything Jul 2015 #46
Have you heard of Spurious Correlations? LanternWaste Jul 2015 #52
Yes, I've heard of "spurious correlations". bvar22 Jul 2015 #65
Ah yes, requesting someone prove a negative hueymahl Jul 2015 #87
Pure BS. bvar22 Jul 2015 #106
Does anyone see you asking someone to prove a negative? Ahh, yes hueymahl Jul 2015 #123
Yes. bvar22 Jul 2015 #134
Evaporative cooling and radiative cooling are entirely different components of the atmospheric heat AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #135
Did NOT you say that these plants use our atmosphere as a "heat sink". bvar22 Jul 2015 #155
By way of evaporation. Yes. AtheistCrusader Aug 2015 #156
Ok, I'm going to try one more time hueymahl Jul 2015 #149
I would believe you, bvar22 Jul 2015 #143
Total human energy output was covered already. Less than 0.03% AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #146
Is the industry fucking around pumping hot water uphill to kill the fish? AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #133
Not a Double Negative. bvar22 Aug 2015 #169
Nuclear power plants can and must be a contributor to the rise in temp. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #88
Thanks for your reasonable answer. bvar22 Jul 2015 #92
Congratulations, you steered a conversation about global warming, a well-founded explanation CreekDog Jul 2015 #127
All I did was ask a question. bvar22 Jul 2015 #136
Because you don't know what is there, or why. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #137
This entire thread STARTED with the killing of Salmon on the Colombia River, bvar22 Jul 2015 #153
The rivers are over-temp upriver of any power plant of any type. AtheistCrusader Aug 2015 #157
The amount of heat any power generating station is allowed to put into the river is carefully regula AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #60
So it IS possible for the heat discharge from a Nuke Plant to destroy a river's ecology. bvar22 Jul 2015 #62
Not in the United States, no. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #68
Oh Yes! bvar22 Jul 2015 #70
In this case the limits and enforcement are public record. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #75
I've live in the USA for over 60 years, bvar22 Jul 2015 #78
Anyone can stick a temp probe in those rivers and verify. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #79
And that is ALL iI have done... bvar22 Jul 2015 #94
What's your carbon neutral heat? Wood? AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #98
Are you burning coal, nuke or petroleum products for heat? bvar22 Jul 2015 #99
Unrelated issue. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #100
Again, your imagination replaces reality. bvar22 Jul 2015 #108
My home is 100% powered by hydroelectric through a local co-op. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #111
Another falsehood. bvar22 Jul 2015 #120
You started lying and misrepresenting in post 69 so don't play the wounded animal. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #122
And while we're on the subject of lies, don't forget post 84. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #124
Wrong again. bvar22 Aug 2015 #158
Already addresss this. AtheistCrusader Aug 2015 #159
Moving goalposts again. bvar22 Aug 2015 #160
Adds heat that could remain out of he heat engine of the atmosphere for a long time. AtheistCrusader Aug 2015 #161
Wood Rot and decomposition releases heat and carbon too. bvar22 Aug 2015 #168
Can you look up what "long time" means? AtheistCrusader Aug 2015 #170
You have no idea what the heat was like here passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #22
I'm from Oregon and love the Columbia River Gorge davidpdx Jul 2015 #36
I call it the eighth wonder of the world passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #56
It's been hotter in Portland PasadenaTrudy Jul 2015 #42
Are you ready for some more heat? I know I'm not. neverforget Jul 2015 #82
Shit :( n/t PasadenaTrudy Jul 2015 #89
Yes, we are back in hot mode again passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #118
That's my life here in SoCal PasadenaTrudy Jul 2015 #121
I know the heat has been bad there. bvar22 Aug 2015 #162
Actually, what I've read about Hood passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #163
Where ya gonna go when the Volcano blows? bvar22 Aug 2015 #166
You got it passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #167
This is the new normal. AtheistCrusader Aug 2015 #171
Global warming, why is this so complicated for you? CreekDog Jul 2015 #125
Global Warming IS complicated, many, many components, many, many sources, many, many LIES. bvar22 Jul 2015 #142
An issue already well understood and a case example of AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #147
NO. Not well understood. bvar22 Jul 2015 #150
You didn't even know if there was a reactor(s) on the Columbia so... AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #151
This message was self-deleted by its author passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #21
A quick search shows at least 2 DirtyHippyBastard Jul 2015 #14
The Trojan plant was closed about twenty years ago. FuzzyRabbit Jul 2015 #16
yep and oops. nt DirtyHippyBastard Jul 2015 #17
You know Hanford's leaky barrels of nuclear waste are just up stream where the Columbia bends... Tikki Jul 2015 #44
Nuclear waste is a problem, but not one that contriubtes to the river temperature. Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #165
There used to be one, the Trojan Plant (i think), but it's been long shut down. I don't know of any rhett o rick Jul 2015 #54
Yeah, Hanford has been leaking into the Columbia River for ages. dixiegrrrrl Jul 2015 #128
This is not only a disaster DFW Jul 2015 #4
I'm glad to see- ruffburr Jul 2015 #7
You'd THINK it would be obvious DFW Jul 2015 #9
The situation is dire passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #24
And here in Pasadena PasadenaTrudy Jul 2015 #43
Yes, you're right. Eventually it will be us. But is sure ruined my night and will through the whole trillion Jul 2015 #33
these salmon are the canaries in the coal mine restorefreedom Jul 2015 #71
Victims of global warming, as will be all of the animals and fish that eat them in geek tragedy Jul 2015 #5
This has been the hottest year I've ever experienced in the PNW Matariki Jul 2015 #8
I share your discomfort passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #25
Poor cats davidpdx Jul 2015 #37
The coming disaster Thespian2 Jul 2015 #10
Are we past saving the planet yet? Omaha Steve Jul 2015 #11
The planet... deathrind Jul 2015 #55
WA Fishing closures and restrictions 7/18 KT2000 Jul 2015 #12
Just 5 to 6 degrees......wow. eom a kennedy Jul 2015 #18
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #20
Another related loss...the Sturgeon... countryjake Jul 2015 #23
we have sturgeon in the sacramento river shanti Jul 2015 #66
I don't know, shanti, maybe with the ongoing drought you've got down there... countryjake Jul 2015 #103
i don't know anything about sturgeon shanti Jul 2015 #109
I Saw The Dams Spilling Water Saturday Yallow Jul 2015 #27
I live just down the Columbia River valley from the Methow, cilla4progress Jul 2015 #81
T_T abelenkpe Jul 2015 #28
This site really needs up vote buttons. trillion Jul 2015 #34
Here trillion Jul 2015 #35
I live on the bank of the Willamette River grasswire Jul 2015 #29
K & R Duppers Jul 2015 #30
kick Liberal_in_LA Jul 2015 #31
not a good sign at all.Yet Republicans refuse to listen to reason. riversedge Jul 2015 #32
In 2008, The Democrats held the White House, bvar22 Jul 2015 #63
opened up the Seattle Times to this. artislife Jul 2015 #38
The canary in the coal mine packman Jul 2015 #39
This is just the beginning.... deathrind Jul 2015 #41
opposite problem in Alaska J_J_ Jul 2015 #45
50 cents a pound? My distributor charges my co-op $8/pound killbotfactory Jul 2015 #154
Yikes. Well, best keep trying to Wall St our way out of this mess. raouldukelives Jul 2015 #47
all pacific salmon die when they spawn Hamlette Jul 2015 #48
True, except that these Salmon were on their way "to spawn." ffr Jul 2015 #53
Bit of advice for those reading this thread: get used to it. hatrack Jul 2015 #49
As long as big oil, gas, and coal are in charge d_legendary1 Jul 2015 #50
Big Oil, Gas, Coal, Fracking, and NUKE Plants. bvar22 Jul 2015 #113
Focus more on nighttime lows than daytime highs ffr Jul 2015 #51
That is why the last heat spell was so unbearable here passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #119
How awful! DawgHouse Jul 2015 #59
Sockeye is the expensive salmon, you know the wild caught salmon in high end restaurants. YOHABLO Jul 2015 #72
Meanwhile in Michigan. roamer65 Jul 2015 #74
kick and rec love_katz Jul 2015 #83
They fail to mention that dams have a significant impact on water temperature Zorra Jul 2015 #95
This is becuase we had a very small or no snow pack. Sam_Fields Jul 2015 #152
It's been hot as fuck in the Pacific NW Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #164
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