General Discussion

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)

250. I think poverty is part of the explanation, but not all of it.

Fri Jul 31, 2015, 11:51 PM

Jul 2015

Hispanics, for instance, have a similar poverty rate, but a significantly lower murder rate. The two groups have both experienced racism in America, but they have different histories with it. Maybe that explains some of it.

Poverty is certainly part of it. It makes every stress and strain worse, every problem more insoluble, and the need to make a few bucks more desperate.

I don't know about the rest of it, but we seem to produce some really fucked up kids--of all colors--and there is one observation I will make: It seems to run in families. Dad goes to prison, son goes to prison. And his son goes to prison. I see that a lot among my poor white contemporaries, and I see that a lot in other communities, too.

We have to break that pipeline somehow. Part of it's poverty, racism, and a horrendously unfair criminal justice system, but not all of it. Why do some families deal with that by inter-generational criminality and others don't?

------

I don't have a lot of money, but I haven't had to kill anybody myself because I couldn't afford to hire an assassin. You?

Yeah, I agree that rich white guys can get away with mass murder. So do rich leaders of other colors. Ask the Saudis.

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White American male with a weapon who believes in his own superiority kills in order to feel powerful [View all] gollygee Jul 2015 OP

The common factor in these instances is HATE, intolerance, and prejudice. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #1

The other common factor in the vast majority, almost every one of these and thousands more, is The Gun. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #2

Guns don't kill by themselves, people shoot them. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #3

The GUN turns HATE, intolerance, and prejudice into empowered HATE, intolerance, and prejudice. (nt) stone space Jul 2015 #7

Just like carrying a knife or any other weapon.. I suppose the intolerant or prejudiced would feel e darkangel218 Jul 2015 #10

The GUN turns the hate, prejudice, mental instability, etc., into murder and maiming. The GUN makes it all so easy...and final. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #13

Guns make it also easy to defend yourself, especially as a woman darkangel218 Jul 2015 #16

The NRA salutes you for yet another illogical and fact-free attempt at deflecting. We see you! Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #19

It's illogical that I appreciate the fact that I can protect myself??? darkangel218 Jul 2015 #25

Another typical NRA lover response..."you hate women, because you do not think women should defend Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #30

As a rape victim/survivor, I appreciate the fact that I can protect myself. darkangel218 Jul 2015 #35

Walk like an NRA lover, quack like an NRA lover, advance NRA talking points exactly like this one. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #50

That is seriously some weak shit. Adrahil Jul 2015 #132

Careful: he'll put you on ignore at the slightest hint of disagreement. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #158

NRA posters are often not truthful about who they are, but did you read about the poster suggesting Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #175

If you wanna call her a liar, then have the guts to do it directly. nt Adrahil Aug 2015 #253

First you admit you are! It is not nice to fabricate lies about any poster, and then attempt to, unsuccessfully, Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #254

I didn't try to hide anything. I never hide anyone. Adrahil Aug 2015 #258

When one fails to understand false equivalency and logic, it is I that wish you good luck! Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #259

LOL... Sure. Be sure to polish your righteous indignation while you're at it. ;) nt Adrahil Aug 2015 #261

Wanted to add.. you're right, they are NOT equivalent. Adrahil Aug 2015 #263

NRA supporters, I should add, also often distort the words of others in order to pretend they Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #194

I'm certainly not like you... Adrahil Aug 2015 #260

Agreed Alfalfa Aug 2015 #252

That is disgusting.... Positrons Jul 2015 #165

Thanks for repeating for malicious purpose a false accusation from a NRA gun lover poster, new poser. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #173

If its a false accusation feel free to prove it by stating women have the right to defend themselves Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #181

#itsallabouttheguns sarisataka Jul 2015 #191

advocating protecting yourself with a gun is mean and hateful...and it's hurts feelings. ileus Jul 2015 #65

I'm a rape victim/survivor, but I still don't feel the need to carry a gun Paka Jul 2015 #159

That's your call and your right. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #162

This message was self-deleted by its author darkangel218 Jul 2015 #169

Which was my point...thanks for understanding. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #176

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2015 #230

And that's your choice to make. Adrahil Aug 2015 #262

Agreed. Calling a liberal an "NRA supporter" here on DU should be hideworthy. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #171

She's a rape survivor, you ass. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #42

Not necessary to call people names. Demit Jul 2015 #52

He's telling a rape survivor that her only motive for carrying is to support the NRA. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #76

I can read. Demit Jul 2015 #135

How justified is it to tell a survivor the only reason they carry is to be a propaganda tool? Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #180

Doesn't read like the opinion of a 12 year old to me, not that he needs me to defend him. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2015 #216

I'm not complaining, just for the purpose of clarifying -- Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #256

I am very sorry. cherokeeprogressive Aug 2015 #264

It might not be necessary... Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #156

Please note: One side in Guns Discussions can call names w/out condemnation.nt Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #217

No one can teach you to see. ileus Jul 2015 #64

Feel free to point out rte specific logical fallacy she employed. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #170

Post removed Post removed Jul 2015 #122

I'm worried this thread is going to get locked as a gun thread when it specifically says "weapon" gollygee Jul 2015 #18

Ahh, the cleverness abounds. Ri-i-i-ight off: See #2 Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #219

It's a bigoted and exploitative thread you have running here, you and Fred. Bluenorthwest Jul 2015 #238

Heard some guy in Jerusalem had a knife what did that. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #213

It says "with a weapon" gollygee Jul 2015 #8

The OP cites 4 incidences: A shooting, a stabbing and vehicular homicide Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #11

Plus 100 JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #28

It's a monomania with the poster and his thread ally Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #40

And something else . . . n/t - but this isn't a gun control thread JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #31

Yes! gollygee Jul 2015 #54

I totally agree with your OP and suggest that it should contain one more example - the killing of jwirr Jul 2015 #160

But that would dilute the whole white guy schtick. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #193

I think you are on to something. smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #255

Being in possession of a gun makes it easy madokie Jul 2015 #38

If we banned guns but still had a white male supremacist society gollygee Jul 2015 #57

but it would make it less deadly madokie Jul 2015 #60

Precisely....320 million designed to kill GUNS is a huge problem, especially for minorities and those guns have to go....first and now. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #80

Yes, very true madokie Jul 2015 #87

Keep in mind that the 2A - like the rest of the "Bill of Rights" are ALL about guaranteeing jonno99 Jul 2015 #99

The NRA salutes you a second time! You are on a roll! Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #107

Thank you for that cogent, yet vacuous response. jonno99 Jul 2015 #115

The NRA is evil, that is not a problem for some folks at all, is it? Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #118

If you feel better labeling the NRA as evil - go for it. I'm not a member. But it's obvious jonno99 Jul 2015 #123

No I don't believe that for a second madokie Jul 2015 #114

Your belief is not a requirement to make it a fact. Just take a few minutes and jonno99 Jul 2015 #124

I know full well what the bill of rights are madokie Jul 2015 #164

Well, then you are aware then that the BOR is not about collective (even corporate) rights, they jonno99 Jul 2015 #168

Thank you I hope too madokie Jul 2015 #172

That's the number of people in the US, not the number of guns -- Only about a third of us own guns whathehell Jul 2015 #140

In your response you could substitute the word "gun" with "car", "motorcycle", or "knife"; jonno99 Jul 2015 #58

I guess so madokie Jul 2015 #63

Only one is designed as a weapon right from the factory and is preferred by armies....can you guess which one? Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #70

Ok, but if 99.9% of gun owners present no problem, then perhaps we should jonno99 Jul 2015 #86

The NRA salutes you for pulling the "inaminate object" logical fail out of the NRA bag of lies! Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #104

Grumpy indeed! jonno99 Jul 2015 #125

You called? Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #204

The difference is that the gun's primary purpose and design, is to kill. -none Jul 2015 #109

Well of course. But what is the primary purpose of the rapist? For many the only jonno99 Jul 2015 #119

So, what is the point about "designed to kill?" Not all guns are, but conceding the argument... Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #221

Deflection from the fact that too many guns in hands of too many people that should not have them. -none Jul 2015 #231

Deflection? My goodness, I didn't broach the pointless subject of "designed to kill." Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #235

Gun lovers never see a problem with guns. More and more guns are the solution to all the many guns. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #239

Is one more or less dead if... Positrons Jul 2015 #241

Dude, of the three expamples cited, one is a car, one is a knife and another a gun. Bluenorthwest Jul 2015 #237

K&R mwrguy Jul 2015 #4

No other races or genders kill anyone ever Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #5

This is discussing mass killings done for a particular reason gollygee Jul 2015 #9

No, it's 100% racist. It fixates on race and sees nothing but race. It seeks no remedy. It's only Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #14

It names a few things, not just race gollygee Jul 2015 #15

I would hazard a guess that all murderers have a sense of superiority. But the racist agitprop Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #21

LOL gollygee Jul 2015 #27

So is it your position that a minority TeddyR Jul 2015 #34

Racism is racial bigotry + societal power gollygee Jul 2015 #41

Okay, so -- according to you -- white people are the worst thing ever. Now what? Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #45

Huh? gollygee Jul 2015 #48

Please tell me what element of white societal dominance facilitated stabbings and vehicular Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #82

The feeling of superiority and a need to feel powerful gollygee Jul 2015 #85

Which has absolutely nothing to do with race. Superiority over the victim motivates all crimes. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #100

Yes, white supremacy involves a sense of superiority. n/t gollygee Jul 2015 #110

So does the OP. So now what? Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #178

why don't you take a quick checky there of who are killing all the fucking elephants snooper2 Jul 2015 #126

I looked up the term "racism" in several dictionaries and I did not find it totodeinhere Jul 2015 #243

It is the definition sociologists use gollygee Jul 2015 #244

Aren't a lot of sociologists also white people not immune from bias? totodeinhere Jul 2015 #248

Good for them melman Jul 2015 #249

A sociologist is someone who gets paid to tell us all what normal people think and then Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #257

Whatever. Ginning up racist hatred is all your OP does. It seeks not remedy only hate and fear. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #37

Dismantle our system of racism and white supremacy, which includes discussion of white supremacy. gollygee Jul 2015 #43

Dismantle is a bullshit proposition without any defined meaning. Dismantle how? Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #47

So you don't think there have been a number of cases of violent crimes by white people gollygee Jul 2015 #49

I think all racially motivated crimes should be dealt with regardless of who is perpetrating them. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #69

Again, you're mischaracterizing what I'm saying gollygee Jul 2015 #78

Again, you're talking out both sides of your face. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #88

It's fixated on white American men who feel a sense of superiority and need to feel power. gollygee Jul 2015 #93

And yet, it's fixated on a very strange place. Igel Jul 2015 #190

It's fixated on crime specifically that comes from a place of a feeling of superiority and a need for power gollygee Jul 2015 #210

I agree. Nt darkangel218 Jul 2015 #17

Actually, this does not detract from the OP, but technically, Encinias who arrested JDPriestly Jul 2015 #166

There is a minor inaccuracy in this story. Please see my post #166. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #167

I'd wager the badge on his shirt was more of a factor than the skin under anybody's shirt. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #179

Much as it was during the McKinney pool party last month. LanternWaste Jul 2015 #208

I'm not dismissing the existence of racism. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #212

Do white males kill at a higher rate than other races? hack89 Jul 2015 #6

This is discussing mass killings done for a particular reason gollygee Jul 2015 #12

Your OP discriminates , and like another poster said, fixates only on one race ( and I might add, darkangel218 Jul 2015 #20

And nationality, and use of a weapon gollygee Jul 2015 #22

Go read your link again - one of the victims was a lion hack89 Jul 2015 #23

+1 darkangel218 Jul 2015 #26

You're right - it's about killings for a specific reason whether they're mass killings or not gollygee Jul 2015 #29

So how do white men differ from other races when it comes to killing? Nt hack89 Jul 2015 #33

This isn't about all killings by white men gollygee Jul 2015 #36

It's racist sludge pipoman Jul 2015 #55

Only idiots don't know that this is the reason for most crime pipoman Jul 2015 #62

No, it most certainly is NOT. Most of the examples in the article are single-victim killings. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #155

See post #29. gollygee Jul 2015 #157

And that's a subject worthy of proper scientific investigation. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #161

No TeddyR Jul 2015 #24

No. Not even close. But that's not the important thing (for some reason????). nt Romulox Jul 2015 #72

That's an interesting question, innit? lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #185

George Bush et al reinstated torture, Abu Graib, water boarding and the use of Lodestar Jul 2015 #32

So based on your thesis what should we do? el_bryanto Jul 2015 #39

We created a society that includes white supremacy and white male supremacy gollygee Jul 2015 #46

Ah - so by being aware of the problem, we've done our part? nt el_bryanto Jul 2015 #56

Recognizing racism and privilege and discussing it is a big part of the answer gollygee Jul 2015 #61

No, it's divisive racist tripe pipoman Jul 2015 #66

You seeing it that way says much more about you than this thread. n/t gollygee Jul 2015 #81

Your insistence that a word means something it has never meant pipoman Jul 2015 #102

That really is the headline missing daily from the M$M and we all know why. Rex Jul 2015 #44

Yes, agreed. White privilege also exists in the entirely white man owned mass media. It is not surprising the Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #51

That's it right there. Rex Jul 2015 #67

These are sad but great Gothmog Jul 2015 #53

These and millions of unknowns are why I always carry. ileus Jul 2015 #59

'Guns Don't kill, White Men Do' HFRN Jul 2015 #68

Hey! Another race-baiting post from a wealthy white woman! nt Romulox Jul 2015 #71

That is not true, the OP makes an excellent point, just not a complete one. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #73

White men aren't even *close* to the most violent demographic in America. Truth isn't the point. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #75

Truth is always the point. White men, with guns. Too many white men with guns and no brains, but lots of anger, is my point. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #77

No. Look at the crime statistics... nt Romulox Jul 2015 #94

Then look up the stats, if truth is so important to you. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #163

Stats are racist and only racists cite stats. If we're ever going to have social justice we need Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #182

*snerk* Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #189

Don't take it personal. He has Democracy on ignore. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #198

All we really need is just one nuclear unicorn. Rex Jul 2015 #195

I have no idea what it is you're trying to say. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #197

LOL it is a joke. Rex Jul 2015 #201

Oops! My apologies for being defensive. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #202

NP, sorry for coming off that way. Was just imagining this beast made of a rare metal and Rex Jul 2015 #203

The first time I met the man who would become my husband Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #205

Ha no way your story is much better! I like it! Rex Jul 2015 #206

I'm afraid I've been the volatile one in the past. He's never even raised his voice to me. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #209

Sounds wonderful, I am glad for the both of you. I think I've seen you type Lover Boy before. Rex Jul 2015 #218

Don't forget gender hate hustling... pipoman Jul 2015 #79

Actually, she also REALLY would like to downplay her own *class based privilege*. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #84

I am very aware of my class based privilege gollygee Jul 2015 #90

You need to deal with your OWN privilege for a second, before castigating others. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #92

I have been dealing with my own privilege gollygee Jul 2015 #95

OK. But maybe you, as a well-to-do white woman, need to ask why you feel so free to critique Romulox Jul 2015 #98

I'm critiquing society, not anyone's behavior gollygee Jul 2015 #103

Right. You just *happened* to forget your own White Wealthy Female privilege. Just plumb *forgot*. Romulox Jul 2015 #106

I never forget my privilege. And I have critiqued wealth privilege. n/t gollygee Jul 2015 #108

Link??? Romulox Jul 2015 #112

I'm not going to do a search for you. gollygee Jul 2015 #116

LOL. I know, I know. You meant to post such a thread, but just forgot. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #127

I volunteer with an organization gollygee Jul 2015 #129

Oh. I guess that gives you the right to downplay your own privilege. Still not seeing any links, Romulox Jul 2015 #136

I'm not giving you any links gollygee Jul 2015 #144

You've never authored such a thread. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #146

Pow! melman Jul 2015 #174

I remembered one gollygee Jul 2015 #177

Society didn't run people down with a car -- a person did that. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #183

Society created the sense of superiority and need to feel powerful. n/t gollygee Jul 2015 #184

Society is an abstraction. People are tangibles. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #196

Racism is built into every system and structure in our society gollygee Jul 2015 #214

Then our society is absolutely mundane in the scope of the entire world. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #220

Re your first paragrah gollygee Jul 2015 #224

The 'need to feel powerful' extends from one side of the aisle to the other... beevul Jul 2015 #207

I like to pretend I have absolute knowledge of other people's genuflecting too. LanternWaste Jul 2015 #211

That is one hell of a thing to read out of a person who is exploiting attacks on gay men with knives Bluenorthwest Jul 2015 #242

"Only poor people of color should discuss racism . . .!" gollygee Jul 2015 #83

I just love how you lecture that economic inequality doesn't matter (from your home in Ann Arbor!). Romulox Jul 2015 #89

This message was self-deleted by its author gollygee Jul 2015 #91

LOL. Washtenaw County, then. Either way, it's an awkward perch from which to lecture the poor. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #96

This message was self-deleted by its author gollygee Jul 2015 #97

Grand Rapids is the wealthiest part of the state. Even worse! nt Romulox Jul 2015 #101

This message was self-deleted by its author gollygee Jul 2015 #105

Kent County is no better. The point stands, you like to castigate those poorer than yourself. Romulox Jul 2015 #111

This message was self-deleted by its author gollygee Jul 2015 #113

Jury results merrily Jul 2015 #131

Lame alert from a poster who'd rather move the spotlight to someone else. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #133

I didn't alert on that. gollygee Jul 2015 #142

I'm not a gun person, myself. I'm an anti-class privilege person. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #145

I deleted all my posts about where I live gollygee Jul 2015 #121

You are uncomfortable with attempts to underscore *your own privilege*. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #128

No, I'm very up front about me having wealth privilege. gollygee Jul 2015 #130

Link???? nt Romulox Jul 2015 #134

Do a search if you really care gollygee Jul 2015 #139

Gimme a break and be honest: you've never posted such a thread. Romulox Jul 2015 #141

I don't know if I've posted a whole thread about wealth privilege gollygee Jul 2015 #147

I do. You haven't. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #148

And you're wrong. This is a conversation I very much would like to have here. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #149

Yeah, it looks like you want to have this conversation. /sarcasm gollygee Jul 2015 #150

I brought it up, didn't I? nt Romulox Jul 2015 #154

And "you trying to find out where I live thing" is silly. We only know about you what you yourself Romulox Jul 2015 #143

posted in wrong place gollygee Jul 2015 #137

See I believe the test here is.... pipoman Jul 2015 #74

Wow, this thread sure makes people uncomfortable. gollygee Jul 2015 #117

kicking DESPITE all the hijacking going on. . .n/t annabanana Jul 2015 #120

In some people, bigotry inspires that discomfort. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #186

It certainly seems to have put at least one DUer very much on the defensive. Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #215

Sometimes I think testosterone is the most dangerous Ilsa Jul 2015 #138

He might be suffering from the "small penis syndrome." nt ladjf Jul 2015 #151

"All attributed motivations are approximate." Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #152

250 years heaven05 Jul 2015 #153

Go to most any right wing "political" site and read the threats against Y.O.U Stinky The Clown Jul 2015 #187

July 29th, 2015 Initech Jul 2015 #188

I weep for my race. Why are white people so horrible? Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #192

Ooh, those terrible white guys. They killed almost as many people as black guys did. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #199

At least the white race is coming around to accepting they are a race, then maybe we can move on Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #200

Let's talk about male privilege and those who feel they're entitled to tell rape survivors Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #225

kick Dawson Leery Jul 2015 #222

White American males plagued by feelings of inferiority... Orsino Jul 2015 #223

I bet you wrote that without the slightest hint of self-awareness. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #226

I would bet you don't know me well enough for certainty. n/t Orsino Aug 2015 #265

wow Kali Jul 2015 #227

lots of butthurt whitesplaining in this thread mwrguy Jul 2015 #228

Maybe you can blacksplain why black guys are three times more likely to kill somebody? Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #233

They are more likely to be POOR. The less money you have the more likely you are to do your own bravenak Jul 2015 #247

I think poverty is part of the explanation, but not all of it. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #250

Yep.nt bravenak Aug 2015 #251

No kidding. Suddenly discovering that "white" is also a race, the dominate race, which is the race that needs to explain everything is causing mass confusion. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #240

Indeed, many members of the white race are truly horrible. Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #246

K & R SunSeeker Jul 2015 #229

White American man isn't any more responsible for the actions of other white american man, Kurska Jul 2015 #232

Look how mad!! The very same folks that castigated black protesters(racistly) are now calling YOU racist. bravenak Jul 2015 #234

Hey straight people. If you are going to use language like this about anti gay attacks by straights Bluenorthwest Jul 2015 #236

It is very much not a gun thread. It got hijacked. gollygee Jul 2015 #245