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In reply to the discussion: Homeopathy had No Place in Pharmacy: Canadian Pharmacist [View all]AikidoSoul
(2,150 posts)75. If you have problems with the word "natural" then you might not like this research by Nobel Laureate
Luc Montagnier:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-ullman/luc-montagnier-homeopathy-taken-seriously_b_814619.html
SNIP
Here, Montagnier is making reference to his experimental research that confirms one of the controversial features of homeopathic medicine that uses doses of substances that undergo sequential dilution with vigorous shaking in-between each dilution. Although it is common for modern-day scientists to assume that none of the original molecules remain in solution, Montagnier's research (and other of many of his colleagues) has verified that electromagnetic signals of the original medicine remains in the water and has dramatic biological effects.
Montagnier has just taken a new position at Jiaotong University in Shanghai, China (this university is often referred to as "China's MIT", where he will work in a new institute bearing his name. This work focuses on a new scientific movement at the crossroads of physics, biology, and medicine: the phenomenon of electromagnetic waves produced by DNA in water. He and his team will study both the theoretical basis and the possible applications in medicine.
Montagnier's new research is investigating the electromagnetic waves that he says emanate from the highly diluted DNA of various pathogens. Montagnier asserts, "What we have found is that DNA produces structural changes in water, which persist at very high dilutions, and which lead to resonant electromagnetic signals that we can measure. Not all DNA produces signals that we can detect with our device. The high-intensity signals come from bacterial and viral DNA."
Montagnier affirms that these new observations will lead to novel treatments for many common chronic diseases, including but not limited to autism, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, and multiple sclerosis.
Montagnier first wrote about his findings in 2009, (17) and then, in mid-2010, he spoke at a prestigious meeting of fellow Nobelists where he expressed interest in homeopathy and the implications of this system of medicine. (18)
SNIP
Support from Another Nobel Prize winner
Montagnier's new research evokes memories one of the most sensational stories in French science, often referred to as the 'Benveniste affair.' A highly respected immunologist Dr. Jacques Benveniste., who died in 2004, conducted a study which was replicated in three other university laboratories and that was published in Nature (19). Benveniste and other researchers used extremely diluted doses of substances that created an effect on a type of white blood cell called basophils.
Although Benveniste's work was supposedly debunked, (20) Montagnier considers Benveniste a "modern Galileo" who was far ahead of his day and time and who was attacked for investigating a medical and scientific subject that orthodoxy had mistakenly overlooked and even demonized.
In addition to Benveniste and Montagnier is the weighty opinion of Brian Josephson, Ph.D., who, like Montagnier, is a Nobel Prize-winning scientist.
SNIP
Josephson went on to describe how many scientists today suffer from "pathological disbelief;" that is, they maintain an unscientific attitude that is embodied by the statement "even if it were true I wouldn't believe it."
Even more recently, Josephson wryly responded to the chronic ignorance of homeopathy by its skeptics saying, "The idea that water can have a memory can be readily refuted by any one of a number of easily understood, invalid arguments."
In the new interview in Science, Montagnier also expressed real concern about the unscientific atmosphere that presently exists on certain unconventional subjects such as homeopathy, "I am told that some people have reproduced Benveniste's results, but they are afraid to publish it because of the intellectual terror from people who don't understand it."
Montagnier concluded the interview when asked if he is concerned that he is drifting into pseudoscience, he replied adamantly: "No, because it's not pseudoscience. It's not quackery. These are real phenomena which deserve further study."
Aikido Soul: If you read the link you will find a section called "The Misinformation That Skeptics Spread "
It goes like this:
It is remarkable enough that many skeptics of homeopathy actually say that there is "no research" that has shows that homeopathic medicines work. Such statements are clearly false, and yet, such assertions are common on the Internet and even in some peer-review articles. Just a little bit of searching can uncover many high quality studies that have been published in highly respected medical and scientific journals, including the Lancet, BMJ, Pediatrics, Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal, Chest and many others. Although some of these same journals have also published research with negative results to homeopathy, there is simply much more research that shows a positive rather than negative effect.
Misstatements and misinformation on homeopathy are predictable because this system of medicine provides a viable and significant threat to economic interests in medicine, let alone to the very philosophy and worldview of biomedicine. It is therefore not surprising that the British Medical Association had the sheer audacity to refer to homeopathy as "witchcraft." It is quite predictable that when one goes on a witch hunt, one inevitable finds "witches," especially when there are certain benefits to demonizing a potential competitor (homeopathy plays a much larger and more competitive role in Europe than it does in the USA).
Skeptics of homeopathy also have long asserted that homeopathic medicines have "nothing" in them because they are diluted too much. However, new research conducted at the respected Indian Institutes of Technology has confirmed the presence of "nanoparticles" of the starting materials even at extremely high dilutions. Researchers have demonstrated by Transmission Electron Microscopy (TEM), electron diffraction and chemical analysis by Inductively Coupled Plasma-Atomic Emission Spectroscopy (ICP-AES), the presence of physical entities in these extreme dilutions. (24) In the light of this research, it can now be asserted that anyone who says or suggests that there is "nothing" in homeopathic medicines is either simply uninformed or is not being honest.
SNIP SNIP AND SNIP![]()
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There are literally hundreds of peer reviewed papers plus a "discovery" by a Nobel Laureate
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#32
FAUX "News" has much in common with "Quackbusters", Stephen Barrett, American Council on Science and
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#47
OMG!!! The documentation of your article comes from the discredited Stephen Barrett, a/k/a
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#53
If you have problems with the word "natural" then you might not like this research by Nobel Laureate
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#75
You've managed to post to me twice on the same reply, yet still haven't edited your post
tammywammy
Aug 2015
#206
Who can blame any publication for picking up a great scientific story citing
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#108
That's not true, Sid has quite a few responses in this thread without a rofl.
tammywammy
Aug 2015
#148
Wrong. Don't know Mike Adams but do know the disreputable, laughable Quackwatch crew
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#90
"value of homeopathy" -- the power to quickly separate fools from their money?
X_Digger
Aug 2015
#178
I don't read Natural News, but simply found the story about a well known and
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#131
Pshaw, all these 'fact' based people, demanding like 'proof' and shit. They should take it on faith!
X_Digger
Aug 2015
#190
Oh, I know "quantum physics", "energy", "nano", "Einstein", "strings", "information"...
DetlefK
Aug 2015
#290
Nobody knows why aspirin works -- the mechanism of action, and yet, nobody goes nuts
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#154
Further correction: "nobody who believes in homeopathy understands how ANYTHING works"
etherealtruth
Aug 2015
#268
While not authoritative, you might check wikipedia before making claims about aspirin
metalbot
Aug 2015
#225
What actual "science" have you studied? What actual "scientific research" supports this?
cleanhippie
Aug 2015
#35
Your misrepresentation of my words is sad. You would lose any debate by doing this as
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#159
You post complete bullshit about homeoquackery and then insist on "truthful facts"
Major Nikon
Aug 2015
#163
The Hoary Anecdotal Evidence Fallacy Trotted Out Once Again To Stupefy The Ignorant...
xocet
Aug 2015
#74
So you believe that if a given substance works, then diluting it 1,000,000 to 1 still works.
hobbit709
Aug 2015
#83
Oh, it is much better than that.. A substance that HARMS you diluted by 10 to the 60th cures you.
Thor_MN
Aug 2015
#184
Psychic Debunker The Amazing Randi used to Do a Homeopathic Bit in his speeches.
doxyluv13
Aug 2015
#277
Lil Missy, when your doctor gives you drugs does he explain the mechanism of action to you?
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#57
It has a hard time because it predates atomic theory and knowledge of the size of atoms
muriel_volestrangler
Aug 2015
#230
"Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work? Medicine."
Electric Monk
Aug 2015
#13
Homeopathy cannot be explained simply and I won't attempt to do it here in this incredibly hostile
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#152
Your reference does NOT state the mechanism for pain relief, but only for thinning the blood to
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#185
Of course it's non-toxic.. it's water (and maybe sugar)! Let's just hope the sugar isn't HFCS. n/t
X_Digger
Aug 2015
#189
Not only, as etherealtruth pointed out, do you not seem to understand what homeopathy is...
Silent3
Aug 2015
#91
If you understood quantum physics, you could better understand why homeopathy works.
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#39
Wow. You piss on the Royals and a Nobel Laureate. God knows who else you piss on, but I'll bet
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#63
Albert Einstein said, ""All matter is made up of energy in the form of electromagnetic frequencies."
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#55
Hundreds of FDA approved drugs have been taken off the market. AND, Europe disallows
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#58
Prove to me that homeopathy "never once has been shown to work as described"
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#64
There are also hundreds of drugs that are available in other countries, and banned in the US.
SeattleVet
Aug 2015
#209
They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers...
NYC Liberal
Aug 2015
#188
Can you prove that water doesn't have a memory? UNESCO covened an international
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#66
from doctors who respect his ability to heal people that the docs can't help.
AlbertCat
Aug 2015
#144
Thanks for the link. I had not seen that. I spend too much time on DU relative to ScienceBlogs...
xocet
Aug 2015
#272
Yep. I'm sure if he just keeps posting his frantic arguments over and over, he'll change minds...
backscatter712
Aug 2015
#199
Did you know water sleeps? You can get better memory retention when letting water sleep
snooper2
Aug 2015
#231
Sorry, people. I disagree. I once had a very sore throat. I had a Homeopath-e-ist make me some..
BlueJazz
Aug 2015
#9
Thank You, zappaman. I didn't have the courage to tell the poster before you I was kidding.
BlueJazz
Aug 2015
#95
It got a strong foothold here in the 19th century, because so many remedies back then
eridani
Aug 2015
#10
Buying into it is a safe thing to do. It costs very little and it works. But you do need
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#79
Homeopathy is complicated. My spouse has studied the Materia Medica for over twenty years
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#25
Wrong. There is a scienfic case and I've made it. The author you cite is Edzard Ernst, who is
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#44
DUers are notoriously ignorant of real science, but that doesn't stop many from
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#116
Huh? Are you doing a magic trick using a distraction technique Mr. Dithers?
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#105
Fifteen years ago, I might have argued that liberals accept science where conservatives do not.
Act_of_Reparation
Aug 2015
#224
"What Big Pharma does is the OPPOSITE of homeopathy." - That's a good thing.
Liberal Veteran
Aug 2015
#237
Ms. Zappaman, I'm sure "Natural News" is not all bad although it's only one source of information
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#103
Just like you, who didn't know what a "student nurse " was, and accused me of "making it up"
darkangel218
Aug 2015
#146
You should Google student nurse. I know you have 0 medical training, that is why
darkangel218
Aug 2015
#166
Oh yah. They are however, part of alternative medicine, which you still call quakery.
darkangel218
Aug 2015
#167
BTW, FYI, many hospitals here in FL, include alternative medicine in their plan of care.
darkangel218
Aug 2015
#187
The point is, though, I could give you sterilized dog poop and TELL you it was homeopathic,
MADem
Aug 2015
#109
It's a little difficult to stop anaphlactic shock with the "placebo effect" as it is a serious, life
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#170
So glad to hear that you're doing well. Both MCS and its close cousin Toxic Encephalopathy are
AikidoSoul
Aug 2015
#215
Hokey religions and ancient superstition are no match for real medicine.
Agnosticsherbet
Aug 2015
#160
People who believe in homeopathy are suffering from chakra misalignment.
Liberal Veteran
Aug 2015
#197