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hifiguy

(33,688 posts)

148. I don't think it is appropriate to call it "bigotry."

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 04:10 PM

Aug 2015

Bigotry, as I see it, is an irrational bias against some quality which is innate to a person - race. biological sex, to which sex one is attracted, ior any other thing that is part of that person's genotype and over which that person has no control whatsoever. It is never appropriate to consider someone as being lesser for any quality with which they were born.

The dismissal of choices such as ideology and religion - and yes, religion is a CHOICE, people change religions, and the most rational ones walk away from fairy tales entirely, all the time - are of a different nature entirely. And stupiy, destructive, irrational and harmful choices, the acting in conformance with which leads to harm to the rights and interests of others, should be loudly and openly condemned by all rational, reasonable persons when appropriate, which is often.

Beliefs which cannot be supported by extrinsic evidence and appeals to genuine reason are not worthy of any particular respect, at least in the public square.

"What can be asserted without evidence may also be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

"I'd rather KNOW than BELIEVE."- Carl Sagan

"Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

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Dad lets daughter drown in Dubai so she's not 'dishonored' by male lifeguards' touch [View all] kiva Aug 2015 OP

What an absolute monster! Initech Aug 2015 #1

If she needed emergency surgery he would probably only allow a woman to perform the surgery. virgogal Aug 2015 #27

Saudi-Arabian paramedics get that shit all the time: DetlefK Aug 2015 #69

the last line is very revealing about the beliefs from that culture samsingh Aug 2015 #134

Religious taboos and illusions form their reality. It's like a form of psychosis, almost. n/t nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #161

does he feel women can become doctors? samsingh Aug 2015 #133

Seriously sick troglodyte! InAbLuEsTaTe Aug 2015 #228

Remind me again what a great force for civilization religulon is, will you? hifiguy Aug 2015 #2

With Sky Daddy simply being the projection of shithead Daddy's ego. snagglepuss Aug 2015 #12

Really? Because this murderous notion of "dishonor" abounds in all religions? WinkyDink Aug 2015 #15

Certainly in all Abrahamic religions, at one time or another. nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #24

True. But women are dying TODAY. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #39

But you keep talking about Islam Recursion Aug 2015 #53

Hindu is really bad I think - though from my own experience, Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #56

Buddhism has been the beneficiary of a massive worldwide publicity campaign Recursion Aug 2015 #59

Mynmar ... TheFarS1de Aug 2015 #76

GREAT post leftynyc Aug 2015 #72

Thank you! Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #80

I know the situation is horrifying, but what can we do? Treat all Muslims (including non-fundies) nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #157

I think, like with most problems, leftynyc Aug 2015 #179

I think it's a fine line between rejecting scapegoating of a particular group or faith - nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #208

And that seems to be another leftynyc Aug 2015 #212

...and Turkey, under its psycho leader Erdogan, Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #213

I can't answer that leftynyc Aug 2015 #214

Rhetorical question. It's generally said that the Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #217

I think the ONLY thing leftynyc Aug 2015 #218

Ah, hon. You are not an insider so you just don't get it. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #219

Would it help if I did understand? leftynyc Aug 2015 #220

If you want to help, Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #225

OK - yes I'm a woman leftynyc Aug 2015 #229

My thoughts on that Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #215

Fantastic ideas. You should really consider re-working this post into an OP. nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #234

Thank YOU! smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #181

Okay, all Muslims are evil people and we should expel them from Western countries. nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #156

No actually that's just as bad! Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #202

I agree with most of what you just posted. nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #210

Going back to the Inquisition, eh? Funny; this time I'd expect it. WinkyDink Aug 2015 #174

Not even. Have you taken a look at, say, Uganda lately? nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #209

It's common in a lot of rural, tribal cultures jberryhill Aug 2015 #30

What do you know about it? These are "nice" talking points! Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #40

I think you should call 911 if you are being murdered jberryhill Aug 2015 #44

No offense, but that's not very helpful. nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #162

So religious bigotry is the answer? Maedhros Aug 2015 #138

The answer is very far in our future and very complex. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #145

The story of that French teacher is appalling. She should've been fired at the very least. nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #158

You and I agree. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #203

I don't think it is appropriate to call it "bigotry." hifiguy Aug 2015 #148

Ascribing negative traits to an entire group based upon limited knowledge of that group Maedhros Aug 2015 #149

I don't disagree. hifiguy Aug 2015 #153

I would disagree with your conjecture regarding why the Somali kids joined ISIS. Maedhros Aug 2015 #166

Thanks for your post. I'm not a fan of religion in general, but I don't hate Muslims (or Christians nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #159

I'm an atheist, but "othering" ethnic and religious groups is a fascist trait. Maedhros Aug 2015 #167

It can be a somewhat fine line between criticizing a religion - which is totally legit - nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #168

All of the Abrahamic religions have troublesome dogma. Maedhros Aug 2015 #169

Whoosh~ smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #182

I'm in awe of the depth and nuance of your response. Maedhros Aug 2015 #191

You seem to think that religious bigotry is the bigger problem here, when someone who smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #193

to establish your point, can you cite several non-Islamic current examples? whatthehey Aug 2015 #107

A beach in Dubai ain't "tribal." WinkyDink Aug 2015 #176

this ass hole is responsible for his own actions. Don't put it on God. God is love roguevalley Aug 2015 #51

The toxic shit he believes, religion, hifiguy Aug 2015 #61

That is a fantastic quote... nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #160

Feel free to spread it around That just popped into my head. hifiguy Aug 2015 #170

Touche! smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #183

When the NY Daily News put "Dubai" in the headline, you came running. closeupready Aug 2015 #85

WTF are you talking about? hifiguy Aug 2015 #139

You mean, aside from great architecture, music, and art? WinkyDink Aug 2015 #177

Fundamentalism is the problem. uppityperson Aug 2015 #222

Scott Walker? OffWithTheirHeads Aug 2015 #3

Ha ha! Funny! Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #41

And the gay men from that same world. Your pain is real. I'm sorry for your anguish. n/t Betty Karlson Aug 2015 #68

Thanks. You make it better. I just want to be respected and not silenced. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #94

A complete and total scumbag malaise Aug 2015 #4

he was arrested. that is something Liberal_in_LA Aug 2015 #11

For real malaise Aug 2015 #13

Only if they try and convict him leftynyc Aug 2015 #73

They will try to convict. But the sentence Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #82

And that's why this kind of shit keeps happening leftynyc Aug 2015 #84

Thanks! Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #88

Coercion at the leftynyc Aug 2015 #91

And every society started that way, Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #92

Thanks, you are a breath of fresh air :) Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #42

To me it is the sign of a weak man. A man who places his ego above his own flesh and blood smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #184

Well said malaise Aug 2015 #200

I cant imagine how twisted your perspective has to be for this sort of thing to happen Egnever Aug 2015 #5

It's disgusting. I really don't understand these people. smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #9

I know them. They are not monsters - not in the usual meaning Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #43

I don't mean all Muslims, I mean anyone of any religion that would sacrifice their own child for smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #180

And he was so busy fighting the men who wanted to save her that he didn't tblue37 Aug 2015 #64

Disgusting. It all stems back to these effing misogynistic Abrahamic religions. Arugula Latte Aug 2015 #6

So true Person 2713 Aug 2015 #26

+1. hifiguy Aug 2015 #34

A long time ago all kinds of people did all kinds of appalling things. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #45

People are still buying into these ridiculous myths. Undead Jesus is coming back to Earth. Muhammud Arugula Latte Aug 2015 #48

I subscribe to no faith, myself. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #54

I guess you want me to say "Islam is the only problem." Arugula Latte Aug 2015 #60

But every time I - or anyone - dares to say "Islam IS the cause of honor killings" Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #67

Well, I am the LAST person on DU to defend Islam. Arugula Latte Aug 2015 #129

Islam expanded so quickly for one reason hifiguy Aug 2015 #154

I think fundamentalism in any form is dangerous, whether it's religion, politics or nationalism. smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #185

I really appreciate your perspective here. smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #186

Hey thanks! Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #192

BTW, your screen name "Syzygy" with other numbers smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #194

Yah, it's a cute word! Though sometimes I think it sounds a little Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #196

I came from a science family and l kind of liked how it was easy for me smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #198

That was beautiful. hifiguy Aug 2015 #63

Ha ha! I wish you could too, my friend! :) Arugula Latte Aug 2015 #66

Hindus and Buddhists don't seem to be much better (nt) Recursion Aug 2015 #52

I don't know anything about Buddhists. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #57

Yes. Nuns are kicked out of convents if they are raped Recursion Aug 2015 #58

That's unfair to Judaism and Christianity. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2015 #70

Correct me if I am wrong.... odd_duck Aug 2015 #150

Yes, and when you think about it, Arugula Latte Aug 2015 #164

Preview of the Teabagger Nation. kairos12 Aug 2015 #7

WE are dying and you are making cheap political cracks. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #46

I am so sorry get the red out Aug 2015 #75

Thank you! Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #81

Ah, religion NightWatcher Aug 2015 #8

omg Liberal_in_LA Aug 2015 #10

"It cost him the life of his daughter." AND THAT WORDING EXEMPLIFIES THE PROBLEM. "IT COST HIM....." WinkyDink Aug 2015 #14

yep... dhill926 Aug 2015 #18

so much WTF, she was a 20 YR OLD WOMAN. AND NOW SHE IS DEAD. bettyellen Aug 2015 #23

You have to have conscience to be haunted. hifiguy Aug 2015 #32

Thank you. Me too. And truly, I think it will. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #47

No - I can't imagine leftynyc Aug 2015 #74

I think in general women adapt. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #86

I've never been married leftynyc Aug 2015 #87

Ah well. Then I am glad for you :) Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #90

If a God like that is real, fuck him. I'll take hell instead. Oneironaut Aug 2015 #16

If there is a God he is an incompetent POS. Who with those powers would let any child die? Lets... Logical Aug 2015 #22

The Abrahamic monotheisms, hifiguy Aug 2015 #33

Are you really leftynyc Aug 2015 #104

The human race really should have outgrown hifiguy Aug 2015 #127

Want to give another crack leftynyc Aug 2015 #130

All are derived from the same poisonous hifiguy Aug 2015 #135

I see you have zero problem leftynyc Aug 2015 #137

*thumbs up* WinkyDink Aug 2015 #173

Maybe God was really the envious one, when he cast Lucifer out of heaven... nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #28

Just who is strange here? lpbk2713 Aug 2015 #17

What. The. Fuck. City Lights Aug 2015 #19

That's great parenting right there...... nt Guy Whitey Corngood Aug 2015 #20

Well, fuck his chicken-shit cowardly ass. Ilsa Aug 2015 #21

I don't often advocate the death penalty AndreaCG Aug 2015 #36

Ah yes, well it's Islam and culture so yeah, no judgement here riderinthestorm Aug 2015 #25

Seriously melman Aug 2015 #55

It's nauseating leftynyc Aug 2015 #106

You sure as hell do see those excuses when priestly pedophilia is the topic. whatthehey Aug 2015 #112

I'd have to see an example of that leftynyc Aug 2015 #114

You noticed that too? smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #187

Yep - happens in fires too jberryhill Aug 2015 #29

See my post #62 below. nt tblue37 Aug 2015 #65

"Death before dishonor" gratuitous Aug 2015 #31

Thatt usually refers to a person choosing death Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #49

It's also found in places like the code of bushido. hifiguy Aug 2015 #155

Interesting! Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #199

I do not understand this type of thinking Marrah_G Aug 2015 #35

I wish I was back in grad school, because I think this would make a great thesis topic. smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #189

I know something about honor killings. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #37

They shouldn't be called honor killings lostnfound Aug 2015 #98

I wish we would change the name to "male reputation killings". Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #100

Bingo! That's exactly it! smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #188

So horrendous. Don't they ever live to regret it? Are they so incapable of self-reflection... lostnfound Aug 2015 #230

That's funny (weird not haha) because in some cases Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #231

I won't call you a bigot or Islamophobe. I think I misjudged you in my initial response. nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #163

the numbers often say it's higher among non-Muslim Yezidis MisterP Aug 2015 #207

What the heck? Catherine Vincent Aug 2015 #38

How, in the name of EVERYTHING GOOD & DECENT in this world, can we *ever* fix STUPID like that?? Ghost in the Machine Aug 2015 #50

Remember the Saudi schoolgirls who died in a fire when they tblue37 Aug 2015 #62

Yet criticism of this kind of pre-human barbarism hifiguy Aug 2015 #171

This did not happen because of Judaism or Christianity. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2015 #71

Damn straight! ericson00 Aug 2015 #77

I'm surprised you aren't fighting leftynyc Aug 2015 #83

Right, how about those ultraorthodox Jews and the ultrafundy Xians. hobbit709 Aug 2015 #89

They are a problem. But if you think Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #97

They don't get it. TexasMommaWithAHat Aug 2015 #101

And she will be in a community of fundamentalists that Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #109

This, as I say, below, is a specifically Islamic fatal lunacy. Other religions have their own tho' whatthehey Aug 2015 #111

I think we agree. I want all coercive religions Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #120

I'm ot minimizing Islam's role. I view ALL religions the same when it comes down to it. hobbit709 Aug 2015 #118

As for Orthodox Jews.... harrose Aug 2015 #221

Feel free to post any stories leftynyc Aug 2015 #108

Feel free to post any about non-Christians letting children die needlessly due to prayer "healing" whatthehey Aug 2015 #113

No, it's like saying a drunk driver isn't as bad as Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #116

All my thanks. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #95

Not just a Wahabbi, but a dumbass one JCMach1 Aug 2015 #96

I know. Weird. Not mainstream UAE. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #99

Probably..., I most likely have been on the beach where this happened JCMach1 Aug 2015 #140

No! It happened because of a disgusting need to control women! AuntPatsy Aug 2015 #136

Radical Islam romanic Aug 2015 #175

I think the fact that this kind of stuff happens in rich and poor countries, north and south, ericson00 Aug 2015 #78

such little regard for life notadmblnd Aug 2015 #79

And there were no women around....... WillowTree Aug 2015 #93

It's like they're from a different planet aint_no_life_nowhere Aug 2015 #102

It's like they are from about 1500 years ago. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2015 #103

Even 1500 years ago people valued the lives of thier children Marrah_G Aug 2015 #232

I'm not sure they valued lives of their female children. leftyladyfrommo Aug 2015 #233

who are we to question his deeply held religious beliefs? whatthehey Aug 2015 #105

. Iggo Aug 2015 #110

Most excellent! hifiguy Aug 2015 #195

"The Asian Father:" Maybe the family was not Muslim? Bad Thoughts Aug 2015 #115

Heheh. Those darn Japanese are not known for Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #117

Most people responding here are simply assuming that it was a native famiy Bad Thoughts Aug 2015 #119

He was foreign. And most UAE fathers would find Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #123

However conservative they might be, 99% are going to identify this as murder, or manslaughter... JCMach1 Aug 2015 #146

You are right. It's a mixed bag and Islam Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #147

can't even say that... the radicalization of the last 50 odd years lays JCMach1 Aug 2015 #204

For you to convince me of that, you would have to Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #206

Even the Ottomans were essentially a tribal state, so really you can't visualize JCMach1 Aug 2015 #211

Asia is chock full of Islam. Facility Inspector Aug 2015 #122

Of course it is. And lots of other things. eom. Bad Thoughts Aug 2015 #125

fer sure Facility Inspector Aug 2015 #128

That reporter must be an Islamaphobe to dishonor Muslim culture that way. Binkie The Clown Aug 2015 #121

Dad has some 'splainin' to do when he gets home JustABozoOnThisBus Aug 2015 #124

And she'll do well to keep it to herself, no? WinkyDink Aug 2015 #178

But they had to touch her to save her life! Why did he murder his daughter? I hope Rex Aug 2015 #126

"By his own logic, he is himself totally without honor." And there it is... nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #165

If they're that extreme, why do they not have female lifeguards as well? KamaAina Aug 2015 #131

because every desperate bachelor in the city would pretend to drown on a regular basis... JCMach1 Aug 2015 #141

I see. So that wouldn't be "dishonorable", just the other way around. KamaAina Aug 2015 #142

it would, but because one is culturally acceptable by the patriarchy and the other not... that is JCMach1 Aug 2015 #144

Do you think the general anger is Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #201

All of the above... plus there is also a generalized racism against 'Asians' JCMach1 Aug 2015 #205

almost speechless here. what turns a man into such a monster? samsingh Aug 2015 #132

Arrested and prosecuted by authorities... JCMach1 Aug 2015 #143

Disaster averted WestCoastLib Aug 2015 #151

Before we mock them HassleCat Aug 2015 #152

I mock them as well. hifiguy Aug 2015 #172

Hey I just wanna add Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #190

Perhaps if he wasn't so busy trying to prevent others from helping her, hughee99 Aug 2015 #197

�This is an old incident that dates back to 1996" Bad Thoughts Aug 2015 #216

Thanks for the info, kiva Aug 2015 #224

Madness Mr Dixon Aug 2015 #223

That's as stupid and self-centered as a person can be. nt ladjf Aug 2015 #226

Religion is insane. nt valerief Aug 2015 #227