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MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
40. And you're wrong
Tue Aug 11, 2015, 11:47 PM
Aug 2015

When I see ANYONE post about banks making mortgage loans in reference to the subprime crisis, I know that person is ignorant of the actual story. That includes over-hyped spear-carriers for finance and politicians.

The crisis was in two stages. The first stage was when the subprime market locked up in late summer of 2007; the second stage was the securities based on subprime became worthless as collateral. That almost came to a head in March of the next year when Bear fell apart. Bear had problems because nobody was willing to accept its collateral or massively increased the haircut, so they weren't able to get the overnight funding to stay solvent. They were leveraged as hell and absolutely had to have cash rolling in everyday just to keep afloat. This would be exactly the same thing that killed Lehman a few months later.

When Lehman went, through the absolute stupidity of Paulson and co., it all hit the fan. Lehman was dialed into EVERYBODY. No pun intended, but bear in mind that Bear wasn't the only financial firm that was massively leveraged AND relied on the repo market to keep itself funded. That was a select group called everybody. Nobody would take their MBS as collateral anymore, or only at ridiculously discounted rates (also know as the actual market value), so all the investment banks began to collapse. This isn't in dispute.

The issue for the commercial banks was twofold: 1) they held a large amount of MBS on their books both because they couldn't move them and they'd held some back as an investment and 2) they were tied to the collapsing investment banks because they provided part of the financing for them. Oh, some of them, like BofA, had bought the originators who had actually made the loans that started everything. Those originators, Countrywide being most notable, failed in part because they had a ton of loans on their books that they couldn't move (also because of many bad loans shifted back to them under the reps and warranties). That, plus leverage, put multiple stresses on those banks.

Whenever I read about the subprime crisis on DU, I see people talking about the actual loans made and CDS. While that's cool and all, I almost never see anyone mention the actual securities (MBS or mortgage backed securities) or the collateralized debt obligations (CDO). The loans themselves are useful to discuss only in the sense that it's necessary to know the composition of the securities and the pools shed light on the actual value of those securities. CDS, or credit default swaps, are useful to understand in their role in allowing unregulated casino gambling in regard to the secondary market for mortgage loans. Neither explain the crisis adequately without looking at the securities.

Everybody securitized loans through MBS or recycled terrible tranches through CDOs. That's just a fact. It's completely ignorant to talk about "the banks making loans" because the loans weren't the issue. Those loans wouldn't have been made without the securities. Every last investment and commercial bank of size bought up loan pools, securitized those loans into MBS, and then sold the MBS to investors, usually institutional investors. The MBS were divided into slices, called tranches, based on the rating given to a sampling of a particular pool (we'll leave aside the fact that the ratings agencies were paid by the securitizers to do those ratings). Institutional investors tend to need very highly rated securities, so those sold well. The lower tranches usually didn't sell at all. With all that crap piling up, first the investment banks and then the commercial banks repackaged those terrible tranches into new securities, called collateralized debt obligations or CDOs. The CDOs, consisting of loan pools already rated as bad by the agencies, were then re-rated by those same agencies. Miraculously, many of them magically got AAA ratings, or the equivalent, in their new form! They were then eligible to be sold to the institutional investors who had to avoid them on the first go-round.

So, we've got everybody making and selling crap, while egging on the originators to keep making the raw materials. As well, we have those originators leaning on appraisers to falsely value homes in order to inflate the size of the loans. The originators make the loans then move them to the banks, both investment AND commercial, who then package them into securities and sell them to investors. We also have the banks not doing due diligence, ignoring the results of that due diligence, or doing extremely poor diligence by design. Additionally, the banks are busy lying to the investors about the quality of the pools that make up their MBS. Not a pretty picture, is it?

So, what does all this have to do with Glass-Steagall? It should be blindingly obvious by now. Had Glass-Steagall not been repeatedly undermined by the Clinton administration handing out waivers left and right before joining with Phil Gramm to finally kill it, the commercial banks couldn't have done ANY of this. Guess what? You'd have had a much smaller MBS market. You'd have had a lot less CDOs. In short, there would have been far, far less risk of a total catastrophic meltdown because the amounts would have been smaller. That's the damage Clinton, Rubin, and Summers did. You can, pardon the pun, take it to the bank.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Even though you are 100% right, shenmue Aug 2015 #1
I await the flames. Someone needs to take the fight to them ericson00 Aug 2015 #3
No kidding. Octafish Aug 2015 #17
They have to post lies like the OP does every few weeks or so. Rex Aug 2015 #67
Pffft.... haikugal Aug 2015 #2
you're posting a point, I'm posting a counterpoint ericson00 Aug 2015 #5
Spin...more spin...I just wanted to help so everyone saw both sides. haikugal Aug 2015 #10
Glass-Stegall was established for a good reason....even if you don't see it that way Stargazer99 Aug 2015 #4
it was not fully repealed, and just because it was "established for good reason" ericson00 Aug 2015 #8
So you are happy that we don't have it artislife Aug 2015 #66
that is a ridiculous argument dsc Aug 2015 #76
Nice deflection! nt artislife Aug 2015 #79
Bankers wrote glass-steagall act BlueStateLib Aug 2015 #29
LOL. Not this again. PSPS Aug 2015 #6
Are you joking? Mortgage derivatives have been around since 1981 ericson00 Aug 2015 #11
Yes Mortgages have been underliners for that long. Springslips Aug 2015 #37
Sorry. Glass Steagall and the Commodities Futures Modernization Act were huge factors. merrily Aug 2015 #7
They always fail to mention CFMA Mnpaul Aug 2015 #38
It's also what made dealing in mortgage derivatives possible. merrily Aug 2015 #59
....! KoKo Aug 2015 #71
It's a myth according to whom? The banks? louis-t Aug 2015 #9
could also blame the banks who didn't run credit checks, or income checks ericson00 Aug 2015 #13
Riiiight, the banks didn't run credit checks... louis-t Aug 2015 #16
You demonstrated what i mean ericson00 Aug 2015 #20
Nothing to do with Glass Steagall? kcr Aug 2015 #32
You are WRONG about 'no credit checks'. louis-t Aug 2015 #73
Good points merrily Aug 2015 #21
Trust financial experts on the economy? Even Greenspan finally said that's a huge mistake merrily Aug 2015 #22
when did Greenspan attack the partial repeal of Glass Steagal? ericson00 Aug 2015 #34
After 2008, that POS suddenly realized that financial markets are not all knowing merrily Aug 2015 #60
Wasn't it those trustworthy bankers who offered those risky loans to people who could not afford jwirr Aug 2015 #26
He quotes Elizabeth Warren in that article that keeping Glass-Steagall would not have prevented 2008 Recursion Aug 2015 #41
It was when combined with derivatives, CDOs and insurance and bank loans of commercial banks. mmonk Aug 2015 #12
Great dilm that proved the old adage hifiguy Aug 2015 #24
A lot of us stupidly defended that liar in the 90's just because the republicans hated him so much tularetom Aug 2015 #14
Wish I could PM you a beer for that post, tom. hifiguy Aug 2015 #27
Thanks, I like beer tularetom Aug 2015 #31
Uh you could be channeling me... ibegurpard Aug 2015 #61
Woohoo....so fraking true....thank you!! haikugal Aug 2015 #77
It fed it a handful of steroids Warpy Aug 2015 #15
... magical thyme Aug 2015 #18
That's what Phil Gramm says! Octafish Aug 2015 #19
Elizabeth Warren also says it Recursion Aug 2015 #42
What does she say about Bill and Phil at UBS? Octafish Aug 2015 #49
I don't know, can you find a quote? (nt) Recursion Aug 2015 #50
Right here. Octafish Aug 2015 #52
Huh... I thought you were asking about her position on Gramm's job at UBS Recursion Aug 2015 #54
Bill Clinton has a job at UBS, too. Octafish Aug 2015 #56
I know she's in favor of re-instating it; I was pointing out that she doesn't think it would have Recursion Aug 2015 #57
Never said it caused the crash. It did allow many of us to lose OUR money in risky investments. jwirr Aug 2015 #23
Wait. That's wrong on several points. Recursion Aug 2015 #51
I suppose that was true of the banks that were purely investment banks but I don't think that was jwirr Aug 2015 #70
One of the cuts in "death by a thousand cuts" Armstead Aug 2015 #25
Sheer sophistry.. sendero Aug 2015 #28
TBTF existed long before the partial Glass-Steagall repeal ericson00 Aug 2015 #39
Rewriting history again, are we? Waiting For Everyman Aug 2015 #30
Sure appears that way! avaistheone1 Aug 2015 #55
Oh please. No one ever said it was ONLY Glass-Steagall. DirkGently Aug 2015 #33
How quickly we forget portlander23 Aug 2015 #35
OP, what do you know? Springslips Aug 2015 #36
Wow GummyBearz Aug 2015 #72
Wow! Springslips Aug 2015 #74
And you're wrong MFrohike Aug 2015 #40
You're half right, and where you're right is important Recursion Aug 2015 #43
Yes and no MFrohike Aug 2015 #44
Oh, I see what you're saying: I agree, the commercial banks screwed the IBs over Recursion Aug 2015 #45
No MFrohike Aug 2015 #46
It probably was dumb luck, or lack of aggression Recursion Aug 2015 #47
Probably MFrohike Aug 2015 #48
Good post. ronnie624 Aug 2015 #58
You need to comment on every bank thread that comes up. Springslips Aug 2015 #75
You are absolutely correct, however I personally do not think it should have been repealed still_one Aug 2015 #53
It contributed to the crisis. Betty Karlson Aug 2015 #62
problem is that people here often do say it CAUSED the crisis ericson00 Aug 2015 #65
The root cause of the crisis is the absence of a global surplus recycling mechanism. Betty Karlson Aug 2015 #68
Of course not! It just forced the public to bail out the perps eridani Aug 2015 #63
Would add some, but you got completely owned in your own thread so Rex Aug 2015 #64
+1 /nt RiverLover Aug 2015 #69
Eeyup. hifiguy Aug 2015 #82
Seems your bumper-sticker wisdom is receiving the relevant amount of disdain it earned. LanternWaste Aug 2015 #78
One post demeaning Sanders Trajan Aug 2015 #80
Clinton is the heavy Democratic favorite, I'm a grassroots fan ericson00 Aug 2015 #81
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