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adigal

(7,581 posts)

86. As I said on this thread, I generally don't believe in censorship

Thu Aug 13, 2015, 06:06 AM

Aug 2015

I wouldn't censor the Christ in a bucket of piss because, really, who does it harm?? But the swastika was the symbol of a regime that actually did harm/kill people, much like the Confederate flag.

And the half-naked part disturbed me because it wasn't art - it was self-promotion, a sales pitch. Low cut shirt, large tattoed breasts, with a swastika for sale. Nothing sacred about that.

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Interested in opinions: increasing use of swastika in jewelry, claims that they are trying to "rehab [View all] adigal Aug 2015 OP

The use of the symbol is over 10,000 years old. hobbit709 Aug 2015 #1

Just as "BLM" no longer means "Bureau of Land Management", JustABozoOnThisBus Aug 2015 #3

Pretty sure that's not a matter of belief, but well recorded history that there was one. whatthehey Aug 2015 #37

Yes, I know that. I also know that the symbol was used in a horrendous way. adigal Aug 2015 #4

So if something wonderful gets used by someone evil, it should forever go away? Reter Aug 2015 #97

some symbols are tainted. that one is drenched in the cali Aug 2015 #6

That's what I thought...maybe in 500 years, it won't be such a powerful symbol of hatred adigal Aug 2015 #9

What would an effective timeframe be? Glassunion Aug 2015 #45

The Pink Triangle aand the Star of David were resurrected by the victims themselves in memory jwirr Aug 2015 #117

That's pretty much exactly what I stated. Glassunion Aug 2015 #123

"the pink triangle or the yellow Star of David, should be displayed as a signal of defiance..." Behind the Aegis Aug 2015 #138

I hope it retains its rank as a symbol of hate... awoke_in_2003 Aug 2015 #75

I agree...and hipsters using it to be cool is counter to that nt adigal Aug 2015 #132

And why resurrect it in another time of hatred? jwirr Aug 2015 #116

I completely agree. there are a bunch of people I know in the body modification m-lekktor Aug 2015 #50

Right?? Find another symbol to rehab. This one is so painful, why is this necessary? nt adigal Aug 2015 #52

and the funniest thing is, the people I know "rehabbing" are the most open minded m-lekktor Aug 2015 #55

Yep awoke_in_2003 Aug 2015 #74

The meanings of symbols, much as the meaning of words tends to change over 10,000 years LanternWaste Aug 2015 #19

What? Tipperary Aug 2015 #27

LOL!! Moment of levity! nt adigal Aug 2015 #39

Indeed! 'Twas brillig and the slithy toves Tipperary Aug 2015 #41

Which is a good example of the structure and flexibility of English 1939 Aug 2015 #62

Middle English used in modern context LanternWaste Aug 2015 #63

I wish I could rec this kcr Aug 2015 #66

And in 10,000 years it'll probably be fine to use again. RichVRichV Aug 2015 #80

i believe hitler reversed it for himself. it cannot be rehabbed and it makes me sick roguevalley Aug 2015 #60

That's great melman Aug 2015 #105

Pull out any map of Tokyo or Japan and you are yuiyoshida Aug 2015 #118

I would ask you like I asked Mika - what do the Buddhists say about the use by Hitler? jwirr Aug 2015 #122

I am sure they opposed it... yuiyoshida Aug 2015 #124

I would think so to. Just interested in knowing how they felt about it. jwirr Aug 2015 #128

Still I remember a story a friend told me yuiyoshida Aug 2015 #130

Thank you. The story is sad. But also thank you for the education on the flags. jwirr Aug 2015 #131

I'll be darned. Very interesting. virgogal Aug 2015 #127

FWIW - recall that the symbol has a long cultural history pre-dating Nazism... brooklynite Aug 2015 #2

Hmmmm...yes, but this wasn't an Asian woman, or an Asian culture adigal Aug 2015 #5

Swastikas were widely used in virtually all cultures at some point. Xithras Aug 2015 #65

that doesn't make it's frivolous use ok cali Aug 2015 #7

Like this scene from sleeper... lame54 Aug 2015 #8

I'm not getting the context from this at all!! nt adigal Aug 2015 #11

the swastika is re-purposed lame54 Aug 2015 #15

Native American stuff... 4139 Aug 2015 #10

I get it is an old symbol. But why the push to rehab it? It's just so filled with hate and death. adigal Aug 2015 #13

Everything changes and I bet this will be a non-issue after all of us are gone. eom LiberalElite Aug 2015 #73

I see it a lot it Mexico, where, IIRC, it is NOT a cultural symbol of any indigenous groups. a la izquierda Aug 2015 #12

Yes, there's a lot of cultural appropriation here, along with youthful stupidity IMHO adigal Aug 2015 #14

This is one symbol that the inversion is hard to see. jwirr Aug 2015 #120

Agreed. a la izquierda Aug 2015 #125

With German heritage - I would not want anything that could be mistake as a swatstika in my home. jwirr Aug 2015 #129

The swastika has been used as a peace symbol by Buddhist & Hindu for millennia. Mika Aug 2015 #16

Yes. And?? Is it a good idea to wear it now in the United States?? Should people sell it? adigal Aug 2015 #17

Buddhist & Hindi observe them &/or wear them every day. Mika Aug 2015 #25

The Dalai Lama wearing it is a different context adigal Aug 2015 #40

And in western culture it's a symbol of genocide cali Aug 2015 #20

Zero protests of its use at Dalai Lama (or any other Buddhist or Hindu/Krsna events) in the USA. Mika Aug 2015 #31

I'm a Buddhist and at my sangha, Karme Choling cali Aug 2015 #57

Thanks for sharing that perspective...I agree with it, totally. nt adigal Aug 2015 #59

Not berated. The Dalai Lama wears it. Okay has he ever talked about the use of it in the context of jwirr Aug 2015 #121

Is our culture's meaning more important? Shandris Aug 2015 #32

Yes, the arms go a different way...a small difference, I think, to those who see people wearing it adigal Aug 2015 #42

Are these pieces being made and sold in this culture or another? whatthehey Aug 2015 #47

A very good point. Shandris Aug 2015 #53

Good point. This young lady claims to have a Native background, that's as specific as she gets adigal Aug 2015 #56

Yes, young American artists are making this. Posting them on Instagram, tens of thousands adigal Aug 2015 #54

Exactly! smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #137

Wiki of the symbol... thecrow Aug 2015 #18

No. Just no. (n/t) leftynyc Aug 2015 #21

1909 picture... The all-native American basketball team uniforms....... Ichingcarpenter Aug 2015 #22

It has NO place in modern America. If you display it, you should be ostracised. BillZBubb Aug 2015 #23

Asian culture IS "our culture". Romulox Aug 2015 #26

No it isn't, not if they are displaying swastikas. BillZBubb Aug 2015 #30

Recent Buddhist or Hindi immigrants: Should they get the message too? Verboten in USA. n/t Mika Aug 2015 #33

I think after wearing one a few times, they would get the message pretty darn quickly adigal Aug 2015 #49

Yes melman Aug 2015 #103

That's kind of how I feel...but only if it was a part of their culture adigal Aug 2015 #43

Reminds me of far-right outrage that anti-food-stampism could be "mistaken" for racism-based. Hortensis Aug 2015 #24

I think so, too...at least that was my feeling for the Instagram followers who Liked it adigal Aug 2015 #51

You can't disappear history. Hitler appropriated this symbol, not the other way around. nt Romulox Aug 2015 #28

much too soon imo restorefreedom Aug 2015 #29

i have a pRoblem with it outside of the old temples where JI7 Aug 2015 #34

So, you're saying that Buddhists should make accommodations for the Nazi's use of their symbol? Mika Aug 2015 #107

I am guessing you don't travel much. former9thward Aug 2015 #35

I'm not ignorant. But thanks for the suggestion. And yes, I do get to dictate certain things. adigal Aug 2015 #44

Context and intelligence seem like the keys here. DirkGently Aug 2015 #36

Thank you for such a thoughtful response...my feeling is that it is being used with a wink and a nod adigal Aug 2015 #46

"where it's never been well known outside of some native American communities" jberryhill Aug 2015 #102

It had a traditional meaning in some cultures. But IMO the Nazi use struggle4progress Aug 2015 #38

I can't explain the feeling I got, but it was that it was manipulative adigal Aug 2015 #48

I think you hit the nail on the head right here. MicaelS Aug 2015 #64

Usage is tyrannical. sibelian Aug 2015 #58

This will be - and should be - offensive not only to Jews, but to WWII veterans and British people.. LongTomH Aug 2015 #61

The swastika is still in use as a symbol of hate July Aug 2015 #67

If it is a Native American/First Nations person doing it, fine, noproblem. hifiguy Aug 2015 #68

Yes, this. The hippie-type kids, all pretending adigal Aug 2015 #69

If she has the symbol... slor Aug 2015 #70

It's all over the place in India Recursion Aug 2015 #71

Last summer in NYC a group paid for a small plane to fly a pro-swatstika banner LiberalElite Aug 2015 #72

"showed it in a picture of women with very low cut shirts" BlueJazz Aug 2015 #76

On Instagram, it was taken down nt adigal Aug 2015 #84

Please do not go to India jberryhill Aug 2015 #77

I'm making my judgements based on social mores in the culture in which I live. Not India adigal Aug 2015 #85

The US encompasses a lot of cultures jberryhill Aug 2015 #93

You are being disingenuous - the eagle wasn't their main symbol adigal Aug 2015 #95

Do you frequently question the character of people who do not see things as you do? jberryhill Aug 2015 #96

These did not come from "Eastern" culture jberryhill Aug 2015 #101

Seems to me that if you reported it then you do believe in censorship. ZombieHorde Aug 2015 #78

As I said on this thread, I generally don't believe in censorship adigal Aug 2015 #86

Wow, pics please Reter Aug 2015 #99

Don't be a stupid, be a smarty! Come and join the Nazi party! Initech Aug 2015 #79

Two Words: Confederate Flag daredtowork Aug 2015 #81

That's what I think, too. They are using the fact that it is a sacred symbol for a different culture adigal Aug 2015 #87

The Confederate Flag means one and only one thing jberryhill Aug 2015 #100

I'm not up on the pro-confederate flag arguments daredtowork Aug 2015 #108

The distinction is quite simple jberryhill Aug 2015 #109

I would then argue that daredtowork Aug 2015 #110

Couple of decades v. thousands of years is probably too early to call a winner jberryhill Aug 2015 #111

Well I hope I don't see swastika earrings on the street any time soon. daredtowork Aug 2015 #112

If you make a message, you have responsibility towards the recipient. DetlefK Aug 2015 #82

I pass that symbol every day on my walk. I don't think I have any business telling the Hindu center CBGLuthier Aug 2015 #83

Different context, CBG. If there had been an Instagram picture of a group of people adigal Aug 2015 #88

I understand you are annoyed about a particular usage but how can we ban some people CBGLuthier Aug 2015 #90

Yes, I do find it offensive. They can't ignore the most recent history of it. Nt adigal Aug 2015 #94

I have a feeling they know, if their location is anywhere in the Western World. WinkyDink Aug 2015 #91

Except "their" location is not in the western world CBGLuthier Aug 2015 #106

I am extremely tired of the pretentious disingenuousness, is what I am. The swastika cannot ever be WinkyDink Aug 2015 #89

Having had to deal with a few real neo-nazi scumbags Lee-Lee Aug 2015 #92

This is something you can boils down to race and ethnic background Lee-Lee Aug 2015 #98

I was looking at some of my mom's jewelry LibertyLover Aug 2015 #104

Should we ban sales of the Volkswagen Beetle? brooklynite Aug 2015 #113

Was that on the Nazi flag as a symbol of the regime? adigal Aug 2015 #133

I wonder if people will try to reclaim the toothbrush mustache or the bellamy salute (nt) TacoD Aug 2015 #114

Of German ancestry here. Get rid of that piece of junk. You can never use that filth and separate it jwirr Aug 2015 #115

I'm part German, too. It is a horrible part of German history nt adigal Aug 2015 #134

Yes, that symbol overshadowed my life for many years by cover it in shame. jwirr Aug 2015 #136

There are still living people who have direct knowledge of what happened under that symbol loyalsister Aug 2015 #119

True. Her website with her work is still up. adigal Aug 2015 #135

Here is the problem, white supremists are going to continue to use the symbol as used the nazis still_one Aug 2015 #126