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LibertyLover

(4,788 posts)

104. I was looking at some of my mom's jewelry

Thu Aug 13, 2015, 09:45 AM

Aug 2015

the other day and one piece caught my eye. It is an silver bracelet, with some very nice turquoise stones and incised designs, several of which are swastikas. The piece is probably 70 or so years old and is of Zuni or Navajo origin. The swastikas in question are turned opposite to the ones used by the Nazi Party. I have very mixed feelings. I will probably never wear it, even though I know the design is an ancient one, because of what Hitler and the Nazis did to it. On the other hand, I won't get rid of the bracelet because it was my mom's, even if I don't ever remember seeing her wear it.

However, today's young people know virtually no history and few have any idea what the swastika meant or was used for, so I'm not surprised that it's a candidate for rehabilitation by some. Personally, I'm against it.

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Interested in opinions: increasing use of swastika in jewelry, claims that they are trying to "rehab [View all] adigal Aug 2015 OP

The use of the symbol is over 10,000 years old. hobbit709 Aug 2015 #1

Just as "BLM" no longer means "Bureau of Land Management", JustABozoOnThisBus Aug 2015 #3

Pretty sure that's not a matter of belief, but well recorded history that there was one. whatthehey Aug 2015 #37

Yes, I know that. I also know that the symbol was used in a horrendous way. adigal Aug 2015 #4

So if something wonderful gets used by someone evil, it should forever go away? Reter Aug 2015 #97

some symbols are tainted. that one is drenched in the cali Aug 2015 #6

That's what I thought...maybe in 500 years, it won't be such a powerful symbol of hatred adigal Aug 2015 #9

What would an effective timeframe be? Glassunion Aug 2015 #45

The Pink Triangle aand the Star of David were resurrected by the victims themselves in memory jwirr Aug 2015 #117

That's pretty much exactly what I stated. Glassunion Aug 2015 #123

"the pink triangle or the yellow Star of David, should be displayed as a signal of defiance..." Behind the Aegis Aug 2015 #138

I hope it retains its rank as a symbol of hate... awoke_in_2003 Aug 2015 #75

I agree...and hipsters using it to be cool is counter to that nt adigal Aug 2015 #132

And why resurrect it in another time of hatred? jwirr Aug 2015 #116

I completely agree. there are a bunch of people I know in the body modification m-lekktor Aug 2015 #50

Right?? Find another symbol to rehab. This one is so painful, why is this necessary? nt adigal Aug 2015 #52

and the funniest thing is, the people I know "rehabbing" are the most open minded m-lekktor Aug 2015 #55

Yep awoke_in_2003 Aug 2015 #74

The meanings of symbols, much as the meaning of words tends to change over 10,000 years LanternWaste Aug 2015 #19

What? Tipperary Aug 2015 #27

LOL!! Moment of levity! nt adigal Aug 2015 #39

Indeed! 'Twas brillig and the slithy toves Tipperary Aug 2015 #41

Which is a good example of the structure and flexibility of English 1939 Aug 2015 #62

Middle English used in modern context LanternWaste Aug 2015 #63

I wish I could rec this kcr Aug 2015 #66

And in 10,000 years it'll probably be fine to use again. RichVRichV Aug 2015 #80

i believe hitler reversed it for himself. it cannot be rehabbed and it makes me sick roguevalley Aug 2015 #60

That's great melman Aug 2015 #105

Pull out any map of Tokyo or Japan and you are yuiyoshida Aug 2015 #118

I would ask you like I asked Mika - what do the Buddhists say about the use by Hitler? jwirr Aug 2015 #122

I am sure they opposed it... yuiyoshida Aug 2015 #124

I would think so to. Just interested in knowing how they felt about it. jwirr Aug 2015 #128

Still I remember a story a friend told me yuiyoshida Aug 2015 #130

Thank you. The story is sad. But also thank you for the education on the flags. jwirr Aug 2015 #131

I'll be darned. Very interesting. virgogal Aug 2015 #127

FWIW - recall that the symbol has a long cultural history pre-dating Nazism... brooklynite Aug 2015 #2

Hmmmm...yes, but this wasn't an Asian woman, or an Asian culture adigal Aug 2015 #5

Swastikas were widely used in virtually all cultures at some point. Xithras Aug 2015 #65

that doesn't make it's frivolous use ok cali Aug 2015 #7

Like this scene from sleeper... lame54 Aug 2015 #8

I'm not getting the context from this at all!! nt adigal Aug 2015 #11

the swastika is re-purposed lame54 Aug 2015 #15

Native American stuff... 4139 Aug 2015 #10

I get it is an old symbol. But why the push to rehab it? It's just so filled with hate and death. adigal Aug 2015 #13

Everything changes and I bet this will be a non-issue after all of us are gone. eom LiberalElite Aug 2015 #73

I see it a lot it Mexico, where, IIRC, it is NOT a cultural symbol of any indigenous groups. a la izquierda Aug 2015 #12

Yes, there's a lot of cultural appropriation here, along with youthful stupidity IMHO adigal Aug 2015 #14

This is one symbol that the inversion is hard to see. jwirr Aug 2015 #120

Agreed. a la izquierda Aug 2015 #125

With German heritage - I would not want anything that could be mistake as a swatstika in my home. jwirr Aug 2015 #129

The swastika has been used as a peace symbol by Buddhist & Hindu for millennia. Mika Aug 2015 #16

Yes. And?? Is it a good idea to wear it now in the United States?? Should people sell it? adigal Aug 2015 #17

Buddhist & Hindi observe them &/or wear them every day. Mika Aug 2015 #25

The Dalai Lama wearing it is a different context adigal Aug 2015 #40

And in western culture it's a symbol of genocide cali Aug 2015 #20

Zero protests of its use at Dalai Lama (or any other Buddhist or Hindu/Krsna events) in the USA. Mika Aug 2015 #31

I'm a Buddhist and at my sangha, Karme Choling cali Aug 2015 #57

Thanks for sharing that perspective...I agree with it, totally. nt adigal Aug 2015 #59

Not berated. The Dalai Lama wears it. Okay has he ever talked about the use of it in the context of jwirr Aug 2015 #121

Is our culture's meaning more important? Shandris Aug 2015 #32

Yes, the arms go a different way...a small difference, I think, to those who see people wearing it adigal Aug 2015 #42

Are these pieces being made and sold in this culture or another? whatthehey Aug 2015 #47

A very good point. Shandris Aug 2015 #53

Good point. This young lady claims to have a Native background, that's as specific as she gets adigal Aug 2015 #56

Yes, young American artists are making this. Posting them on Instagram, tens of thousands adigal Aug 2015 #54

Exactly! smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #137

Wiki of the symbol... thecrow Aug 2015 #18

No. Just no. (n/t) leftynyc Aug 2015 #21

1909 picture... The all-native American basketball team uniforms....... Ichingcarpenter Aug 2015 #22

It has NO place in modern America. If you display it, you should be ostracised. BillZBubb Aug 2015 #23

Asian culture IS "our culture". Romulox Aug 2015 #26

No it isn't, not if they are displaying swastikas. BillZBubb Aug 2015 #30

Recent Buddhist or Hindi immigrants: Should they get the message too? Verboten in USA. n/t Mika Aug 2015 #33

I think after wearing one a few times, they would get the message pretty darn quickly adigal Aug 2015 #49

Yes melman Aug 2015 #103

That's kind of how I feel...but only if it was a part of their culture adigal Aug 2015 #43

Reminds me of far-right outrage that anti-food-stampism could be "mistaken" for racism-based. Hortensis Aug 2015 #24

I think so, too...at least that was my feeling for the Instagram followers who Liked it adigal Aug 2015 #51

You can't disappear history. Hitler appropriated this symbol, not the other way around. nt Romulox Aug 2015 #28

much too soon imo restorefreedom Aug 2015 #29

i have a pRoblem with it outside of the old temples where JI7 Aug 2015 #34

So, you're saying that Buddhists should make accommodations for the Nazi's use of their symbol? Mika Aug 2015 #107

I am guessing you don't travel much. former9thward Aug 2015 #35

I'm not ignorant. But thanks for the suggestion. And yes, I do get to dictate certain things. adigal Aug 2015 #44

Context and intelligence seem like the keys here. DirkGently Aug 2015 #36

Thank you for such a thoughtful response...my feeling is that it is being used with a wink and a nod adigal Aug 2015 #46

"where it's never been well known outside of some native American communities" jberryhill Aug 2015 #102

It had a traditional meaning in some cultures. But IMO the Nazi use struggle4progress Aug 2015 #38

I can't explain the feeling I got, but it was that it was manipulative adigal Aug 2015 #48

I think you hit the nail on the head right here. MicaelS Aug 2015 #64

Usage is tyrannical. sibelian Aug 2015 #58

This will be - and should be - offensive not only to Jews, but to WWII veterans and British people.. LongTomH Aug 2015 #61

The swastika is still in use as a symbol of hate July Aug 2015 #67

If it is a Native American/First Nations person doing it, fine, noproblem. hifiguy Aug 2015 #68

Yes, this. The hippie-type kids, all pretending adigal Aug 2015 #69

If she has the symbol... slor Aug 2015 #70

It's all over the place in India Recursion Aug 2015 #71

Last summer in NYC a group paid for a small plane to fly a pro-swatstika banner LiberalElite Aug 2015 #72

"showed it in a picture of women with very low cut shirts" BlueJazz Aug 2015 #76

On Instagram, it was taken down nt adigal Aug 2015 #84

Please do not go to India jberryhill Aug 2015 #77

I'm making my judgements based on social mores in the culture in which I live. Not India adigal Aug 2015 #85

The US encompasses a lot of cultures jberryhill Aug 2015 #93

You are being disingenuous - the eagle wasn't their main symbol adigal Aug 2015 #95

Do you frequently question the character of people who do not see things as you do? jberryhill Aug 2015 #96

These did not come from "Eastern" culture jberryhill Aug 2015 #101

Seems to me that if you reported it then you do believe in censorship. ZombieHorde Aug 2015 #78

As I said on this thread, I generally don't believe in censorship adigal Aug 2015 #86

Wow, pics please Reter Aug 2015 #99

Don't be a stupid, be a smarty! Come and join the Nazi party! Initech Aug 2015 #79

Two Words: Confederate Flag daredtowork Aug 2015 #81

That's what I think, too. They are using the fact that it is a sacred symbol for a different culture adigal Aug 2015 #87

The Confederate Flag means one and only one thing jberryhill Aug 2015 #100

I'm not up on the pro-confederate flag arguments daredtowork Aug 2015 #108

The distinction is quite simple jberryhill Aug 2015 #109

I would then argue that daredtowork Aug 2015 #110

Couple of decades v. thousands of years is probably too early to call a winner jberryhill Aug 2015 #111

Well I hope I don't see swastika earrings on the street any time soon. daredtowork Aug 2015 #112

If you make a message, you have responsibility towards the recipient. DetlefK Aug 2015 #82

I pass that symbol every day on my walk. I don't think I have any business telling the Hindu center CBGLuthier Aug 2015 #83

Different context, CBG. If there had been an Instagram picture of a group of people adigal Aug 2015 #88

I understand you are annoyed about a particular usage but how can we ban some people CBGLuthier Aug 2015 #90

Yes, I do find it offensive. They can't ignore the most recent history of it. Nt adigal Aug 2015 #94

I have a feeling they know, if their location is anywhere in the Western World. WinkyDink Aug 2015 #91

Except "their" location is not in the western world CBGLuthier Aug 2015 #106

I am extremely tired of the pretentious disingenuousness, is what I am. The swastika cannot ever be WinkyDink Aug 2015 #89

Having had to deal with a few real neo-nazi scumbags Lee-Lee Aug 2015 #92

This is something you can boils down to race and ethnic background Lee-Lee Aug 2015 #98

I was looking at some of my mom's jewelry LibertyLover Aug 2015 #104

Should we ban sales of the Volkswagen Beetle? brooklynite Aug 2015 #113

Was that on the Nazi flag as a symbol of the regime? adigal Aug 2015 #133

I wonder if people will try to reclaim the toothbrush mustache or the bellamy salute (nt) TacoD Aug 2015 #114

Of German ancestry here. Get rid of that piece of junk. You can never use that filth and separate it jwirr Aug 2015 #115

I'm part German, too. It is a horrible part of German history nt adigal Aug 2015 #134

Yes, that symbol overshadowed my life for many years by cover it in shame. jwirr Aug 2015 #136

There are still living people who have direct knowledge of what happened under that symbol loyalsister Aug 2015 #119

True. Her website with her work is still up. adigal Aug 2015 #135

Here is the problem, white supremists are going to continue to use the symbol as used the nazis still_one Aug 2015 #126